The Linn DS / DSM thread

[Neuphonix]

Hi Gareth,

great news you were able to get your money back.

I would recommend adding the Electrocompaniet PD-1 & Musical Fidelity M6-DAC to your list before making any decision.

Both will add a bit to the cost of the NAD but do have inbulit streaming (no HDMI inputs though, do you really need this?)

Good luck, let us know wht you come up with.

 

[CnoEvil]

.After hooking up the M51 I spent a couple of hours doing A-B testing with the same tracks, between that (Sonos/M51) and the Renew, both via XLR into the Primare . . . . All I can say is 'Wow!', I was more than a little surprised and impressed - the M51 is quite something - in my system it gave a decent step up over the Renew, perhaps to a similar extent than the Renew did over the Sonos/SP32. The M51 revealed detail in the tracks that the Renew simply didn't recover - it gave a clearer sense of the acoustic space the artists were performing in; there is a natural audible decay and reverberation to the instruments and vocals that is clearly there in the recordings that the Renew simply didn't resolve. It also added even greater separation, detail and texture to vocals and instruments than the Renew achieved, and added significantly more three dimensional depth to the sound stage, whilst really striking the ideal tonal middle ground in that lower mid/bass region - fuller and more balanced than the Renew, and tighter and more defined than the Sonos/SP32.

As I say, I was more than a little surprised, and took the demo really only on a recommendation. I certainly didn't expect it to best the Renew, but hoped merely that it might close the gap a little.

Given its £1500 price tag, the fairly extensive feature set (HDMI inputs, re-clocking etc) compared to most DAC's, and of course the incredible sound quality I experienced last night, it's an absolute steal.

Needless to say, the I have decided to send the Renew back for a refund, and will be getting an M51. With the £2,500 change, I will probably get the matching M50 streamer that is due out shortly, which will give me 24bit streaming and possibly another step up in sound quality over the Sonos - plus I'll still have change!

Don't get me wrong, this has been a pleasurable experience, and a real eye-opener to me, on the huge importance of the DAC in a digital streaming set-up. The Renew is a fabulous sounding piece of kit in its own right, and for someone adding this to a system with lesser DAC's, the improvement will be substantial. But given the existence of the M51(and possible other DAC's out there up to the value of the Renew/Akurate), one has to question the value for money of the Linn offering - and that is even without considering the full price Klimax DS.

Many thanks for all your help Cno (and others), as always, the journey continues...

- Gareth

Thank you for the comprehensive reply.

I am delighted that you are getting the sound that suits you, and that you are able to return the RDS for a refund.

I am not entirely sure what happened, as the RDS should have been superior.....I have personally never heard one (only the KDS/0), which is why I posted so many links. I can only assume that either the housing makes more difference than has been reported; the RDS was below power in some way; or you didn't get on with the DS sound within your system. It should have sounded very analogue, natural and involving, while still being remarkably detailed.

Anyway, don't be a stranger and let us know how things go.

Cno

 

[Chewy]

Thank you for the comprehensive reply.

I am delighted that you are getting the sound that suits you, and that you are able to return the RDS for a refund.

I am not entirely sure what happened, as the RDS should have been superior.....I have personally never heard one (only the KDS/0), which is why I posted so many links. I can only assume that either the housing makes more difference than has been reported; the RDS was below power in some way; or you didn't get on with the DS sound within your system. It should have sounded very analogue, natural and involving, while still being remarkably detailed.

Anyway, don't be a stranger and let us know how things go.

Cno

The Renew could have been a duff unit, but I don't feel that it was, it would have been more glaringly obvious if there was a fault of some kind.

I also don't feel that it was anything to do with a preference for a certain sonic signature, per se. I loved the sound the Renew produced, it was thoroughly engaging, fluid and natural, and incredibly detailed, it was the best I had heard in my system (since the D2v left that is). As I said above, the only area where the sonic signature differed was in the lower mid/ bass region, where, although a little thinner than I like, did outperform the Sonos/SP32 combination.

More the issue I think, is that the M51 took everything the Renew did well, and improved on over the Sonos/SP32, and just simply did it all better, whilst at the same time getting that lower mid/bass weight spot on and in balance with the rest of the frequency range.

It is a strange one to be sure - I am an ardent believer in you get what you pay for, and if you want the best you have to buy the best (my system is a perhaps a little too representative of that!). My new processor (when it eventually arrives - the Primare is just on loan) should add a whole new level of resolution to my system, so I may well try and get a demo of a full fat Klimax DS/1 once that is installed and compare to the M51 just to be sure.

 

[Chewy]

Hi Gareth,

great news you were able to get your money back.

I would recommend adding the Electrocompaniet PD-1 & Musical Fidelity M6-DAC to your list before making any decision.

Both will add a bit to the cost of the NAD but do have inbulit streaming (no HDMI inputs though, do you really need this?)

Good luck, let us know wht you come up with.

Thanks Neuphonix,

I will certainly consider those options - the MF M6-DAC in particular.

Cost is not so much of an issue if the streaming is built in, as I have to add this with a separate box to get hi-res files to the M51 in any case.

As for HDMI inputs, no, these aren't really necessary in my set-up, but I can imagine they would be beneficial to many people who have a stereo setup for both music and movies but lack a method to get the hi-res audio from a blu-ray player to a sufficient quality DAC in their system!

 

[CnoEvil]

..........so I may well try and get a demo of a full fat Klimax DS/1 once that is installed and compare to the M51 just to be sure.

I'm pleased the experience hasn't put you off the DS.............If you do get a listen to a KDS/1, please me know how you get on, as it should put right any deficiencies (no promises though :shifty: ).

 

[Neuphonix]

The dealer that I bought my MF amp from is a well know boutique shop over here in Sydney.

When I was talking to him about my thoughts on buying the Linn DS he immediately recommended that I try the NAD. They don't stock NAD, so if they are recommending it with-out any profit motive it must be good. Sounds like a pretty good performer for the money.

Did the dealer who sold you the Renew offer to let you try an Akurate DS1 for a demo before refunding your money?

 

[Chewy]

The dealer that I bought my MF amp from is a well know boutique shop over here in Sydney.

When I was talking to him about my thoughts on buying the Linn DS he immediately recommended that I try the NAD. They don't stock NAD, so if they are recommending it with-out any profit motive it must be good. Sounds like a pretty good performer for the money.

Did the dealer who sold you the Renew offer to let you try an Akurate DS1 for a demo before refunding your money?

That's what I was told when I was recommended the M51, that it was found to perform better than DACs costing three times as much.

Without that recommendation I wouldn't have considered it on the basis of its price point etc.

No, the dealer, Krescendo Hifi - only deals in second hand Naim and Linn I believe.

 

[acalex]

Just disinstalled Kinsky from iPad...it really is a crap piece of software. It is a shame that Linn didn't come up with a state of the art controller, especially considering the price tag of the DS range.

I just installed Lumin (which is free btw) which was developed by a Linn competitor but it works a treat and it has a much better look. Considering is not around from long time is already a great step-up. It also allows the rescan of the entire library in case you add something on the NAS.

It has a research by artist/song/album/genre/year, it works with playlist. Not sure if the radio is implemented yet but I am sure it will be just a matter of time

Here the link on the Linn forum: http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=19429

A bit of instructions of needed: http://www.luminmusic.com/app.html

 

[CnoEvil]

Just disinstalled Kinsky from iPad...it really is a crap piece of software. It is a shame that Linn didn't come up with a state of the art controller, especially considering the price tag of the DS range.

I just installed Lumin (which is free btw) which was developed by a Linn competitor but it works a treat and it has a much better look. Considering is not around from long time is already a great step-up. It also allows the rescan of the entire library in case you add something on the NAS.

It has a research by artist/song/album/genre/year, it works with playlist. Not sure if the radio is implemented yet but I am sure it will be just a matter of time

Here the link on the Linn forum: http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=19429

Thx for the info.

BTW Have you tried a power cord on the DS yet?

 

[acalex]

Just disinstalled Kinsky from iPad...it really is a crap piece of software. It is a shame that Linn didn't come up with a state of the art controller, especially considering the price tag of the DS range.

I just installed Lumin (which is free btw) which was developed by a Linn competitor but it works a treat and it has a much better look. Considering is not around from long time is already a great step-up. It also allows the rescan of the entire library in case you add something on the NAS.

It has a research by artist/song/album/genre/year, it works with playlist. Not sure if the radio is implemented yet but I am sure it will be just a matter of time

Here the link on the Linn forum: http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=19429

Thx for the info.

BTW Have you tried a power cord on the DS yet?

It's on now...the Siltech actually.

 

[CnoEvil]

It's on now...the Siltech actually.

and.............

 

[acalex]

It's on now...the Siltech actually.

and.............

Need to have a longer listening, I have just switched. But Diana Krall seems a bit more airy and focused.

 

[CnoEvil]

It's on now...the Siltech actually.

and.............

Need to have a longer listening, I have just switched. But Diana Krall seems a bit more airy and focused.

My tests were inconclusive, sometimes I though I heard a difference, and sometimes not.........so not a clear result......so as yet, it has the original cable on it.

 

[acalex]

It's on now...the Siltech actually.

and.............

Need to have a longer listening, I have just switched. But Diana Krall seems a bit more airy and focused.

My tests were inconclusive, sometimes I though I heard a difference, and sometimes not.........so not a clear result......so as yet, it has the original cable on it.

Definitely ) and 9 from Damien Rice sound fuller and more solid. Not sure this is due to the speaker cable only or the speaker cable and the TQ ultraBlack interconnects I have on...I might switch back to the Linn and check. But I am really enjoying this configuration now...

 

[acalex]

double post...

 

[CnoEvil]

Definitely ) and 9 from Damien Rice sound fuller and more solid. Not sure this is due to the speaker cable only or the speaker cable and the TQ ultraBlack interconnects I have on...I might switch back to the Linn and check. But I am really enjoying this configuration now...

Though I think there is merit in keeping the whole loom from the one brand, I think you are wise trying the mix and match approach. Jadis + SF + Siltech "might" prove a little too smooth. Introducing something like a TQ I/C might work very well, giving a halfway house. You could also try it the other way round and have TQ S/C and Siltech I/C.

 

[Neuphonix]

Just disinstalled Kinsky from iPad...it really is a crap piece of software. It is a shame that Linn didn't come up with a state of the art controller, especially considering the price tag of the DS range.

I just installed Lumin (which is free btw) which was developed by a Linn competitor but it works a treat and it has a much better look. Considering is not around from long time is already a great step-up. It also allows the rescan of the entire library in case you add something on the NAS.

It has a research by artist/song/album/genre/year, it works with playlist. Not sure if the radio is implemented yet but I am sure it will be just a matter of time

Here the link on the Linn forum: http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=19429

A bit of instructions of needed: http://www.luminmusic.com/app.html

What was it in particular that you didn't like about Kinsky? I find it to be a little clunky at times but not that bad?

I think that most of the problems come from Twonky rather than Kinsky. It certainly would be much better if it had a search function though.

I assume that you are now using Minimserv with the Lumin app? I have started using it and have found it quite good. Do have Lumin but not tried it much yet, did seem pretty buggy though?

One good thing about Mininserv is that you can set up your own custom file/tagging structures. If you play around with this a bit I'm thinking that you will find Kinsky more user friendly.

Maybe you should try Chorus. Give the free demo on your PC a go to see if the interface is to your liking. At least they give you an opportunity to try before spending any money. There do seem to be quite a few people over on the Linn site that love it.

Another option that I haven't looked into is Asset with JRiver. I'm a Mac user so these wouldn't be native for me. Apparently they do offer a good degree of flexibilty though if your technical.

Question. When you browse your music do you look at it by file or by tag? I now have a MASSIVE amount of music sitting on my NAS drive & I haven't been very good with tagging. I'm just wondering if I could be bothered going through the task of adding uniform tagging to clean it all up. But I don't find browsing by file to be all that bad. Still have some work to do on the structuring, but it's sort of like looking through my CD collection on the book shelf.

Is tagging worth the effort?

 

[acalex]

Just disinstalled Kinsky from iPad...it really is a crap piece of software. It is a shame that Linn didn't come up with a state of the art controller, especially considering the price tag of the DS range.

I just installed Lumin (which is free btw) which was developed by a Linn competitor but it works a treat and it has a much better look. Considering is not around from long time is already a great step-up. It also allows the rescan of the entire library in case you add something on the NAS.

It has a research by artist/song/album/genre/year, it works with playlist. Not sure if the radio is implemented yet but I am sure it will be just a matter of time

Here the link on the Linn forum: http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=19429

A bit of instructions of needed: http://www.luminmusic.com/app.html

What was it in particular that you didn't like about Kinsky? I find it to be a little clunky at times but not that bad?

I think that most of the problems come from Twonky rather than Kinsky. It certainly would be much better if it had a search function though.

I assume that you are now using Minimserv with the Lumin app? I have started using it and have found it quite good. Do have Lumin but not tried it much yet, did seem pretty buggy though?

One good thing about Mininserv is that you can set up your own custom file/tagging structures. If you play around with this a bit I'm thinking that you will find Kinsky more user friendly.

Maybe you should try Chorus. Give the free demo on your PC a go to see if the interface is to your liking. At least they give you an opportunity to try before spending any money. There do seem to be quite a few people over on the Linn site that love it.

Another option that I haven't looked into is Asset with JRiver. I'm a Mac user so these wouldn't be native for me. Apparently they do offer a good degree of flexibilty though if your technical.

Question. When you browse your music do you look at it by file or by tag? I now have a MASSIVE amount of music sitting on my NAS drive & I haven't been very good with tagging. I'm just wondering if I could be bothered going through the task of adding uniform tagging to clean it all up. But I don't find browsing by file to be all that bad. Still have some work to do on the structuring, but it's sort of like looking through my CD collection on the book shelf.

Is tagging worth the effort?

When I browse my music I definitely use tags: album and artist, but especially album. I do thing tagging is worth the effort but I understand that if you have a lot of music it might be a bit unappealing as a task.

Don't find Kinsky very user friendly and also visually not very appealing. Can't see too much effort being this software...plus it is quite slow (I have last generation iPad) and it gets stuck more than I expected. It is quite disappointing for being a software supposed to drive a 15k euro unit, not?

Still have to try the right version of Miniserv which work on my Netgear ReadyNas Ultra 2. For now I am still using Logitech Media Server...

 

[CnoEvil]

Definitely ) and 9 from Damien Rice sound fuller and more solid. Not sure this is due to the speaker cable only or the speaker cable and the TQ ultraBlack interconnects I have on...I might switch back to the Linn and check. But I am really enjoying this configuration now...

Here is a review of Siltech and Cardas, unfortunately its the cheaper Siltech and the dearer Cardas, but it may still prove useful: http://www.synergisticresearch.com/sophic/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/TAS-Element-Review.pdf

 

[Pedro2]

Hi all,

Just read the WHF review of the Linn DSM. Can understand the 4 star rating for lack of cdp and also the lack of usb input but I believe the criticism of the 'analytical sonic balance' is a little harsh. I auditioned a Naim streamer with the Linn and found the latter to be far more engaging. It certainly reveals a great amount of detail but not without emotion. There is also scant mention of the Majik's excellent ability to stream Itunes wirelessly from a laptop/ipad/phone etc. This was the deal clincher for my wife back in August.

Really enjoying the Majik although must admit to still feeding it through my faithful Roksan LIII power amp!

Pedro

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi all,

Just read the WHF review of the Linn DSM. Can understand the 4 star rating for lack of cdp and also the lack of usb input but I believe the criticism of the 'analytical sonic balance' is a little harsh. I auditioned a Naim streamer with the Linn and found the latter to be far more engaging. It certainly reveals a great amount of detail but not without emotion. There is also scant mention of the Majik's excellent ability to stream Itunes wirelessly from a laptop/ipad/phone etc. This was the deal clincher for my wife back in August.

Really enjoying the Majik although must admit to still feeding it through my faithful Roksan LIII power amp!

Pedro

Glad you are enjoying it.

IMO. The Linn streamers are 5*.......but their amps 4* (hence you prefer the Roksan).

 

[tino]

In addition to the recent Sekrit DSM ... looks like there is another new addition to the family ... Sneaky DSM

 

[CnoEvil]

In addition to the recent Sekrit DSM ... looks like there is another new addition to the family ... Sneaky DSM

Good catch........I hadn't seen that!

 

[CraigDS]

I picked up my new MDSM yesterday. I want to demo new speakers and need a short list to source. I have a budget of about £1k and don't have any preferences between floorsstanders and stand mounts. I want speakers with exceptional soundstage and imaging. Thanks

 

[gregvet]

Soundstage and imaging are aided by speakers having the tweeter positioned within the woofer. I would suggest for your budget demoing the Kef R100, R300, LS50, and Tannoy DC6, DC6SE or whichever other tannoy models fit within budget.

I have not heard either with the Linn integrated so its only a suggestion