I would like to gather the thoughts and experiences of all the DS owners on here, whether a Sneaky or a Klimax owner. As we stand, I think there are a couple of Sneakys, a Majik DSM or two, the odd Majik DS, a potential Akurate DS owner, but no Klimax DSsss. IMO The CDP (not CDs) is on the way out and streaming is becoming much more relevant. IMO. Linn is a must audition if you're thinking of dipping a toe in the "stream", and in the market to spend £850 upwards. I want to hear the experience of anyone who has compared them to the direct competition eg. Naim, Cyrus and Olive etc; as well as a Transport plus Dac at similar money. I am also interested in hearing if you have compared different models of DSsss and if you think they are worth the fairly hefty premium to the next one up....where's the sweet spot in the range? If you went for a DSM, which other amps did it fend off to make it into your system? If you bought something else, what was it, and why did you prefer it?
The Linn DS / DSM thread
- Thread starter CnoEvil
- Start date
marou
Well-known member
Your enthusiasm for Linn stream is infectious enough to make me consider a Linn streamer if any came with a tuner - they don't so when it comes to upgrading which I'll be doing soon, Naim is the only game in town for me. Persuade me otherwise.
marou said:
Thank you Sir, I do my best.
The DS can stream most stations, but the quality of some stations may not be adequate for you....but Linn's own 3 stations show what can be achieved.
You should give one a go and you might be pleasantly surprised.....I'm not trying to persuade people to buy, but to try.
:cheers:
Cno
Pedro2
Well-known member
Hi Cno,
From a previous post, you may remember that I moved from a squeezebox touch + dac to a Linn Majik DSM. Didn't intend to. Actually went shopping for a new integrated amp and had my sights set on a Naim XS.
Got to hear a Rega brio as well as a Naim Unitiqute but it was the Linn which got my attention. Just so much more musical than the Naim in my opinion (as well as that of my better half). The Naim was good but not as engaging. The shop owner who was doing the demo said the difference was like the players were really enjoying their playing rather than just 'doing the business'. He preferred Linn although the shop carried as much Naim gear.
As to Linn amps, I'm not convinced at present. After a short time back home with the new DSM, I hooked up my old Roksan Kandy Liii power amp to the pre out sockets of the Linn. Thought it might be an interesting listen before selling it on. It's still connected! The Linn musicality remained but with more balls and bass control. It might be due to the Neat Motive 2s requiring more beef but the power amp section of the DSM may be its weakest link. Don't know. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Finally, not compared majik with akurate or klimax so can't comment. I do consider the linn majik to be a step up from a squeezebox touch + linear power + audio gd nfb2 dac (similar price point to Sneaky).
Pedro
From a previous post, you may remember that I moved from a squeezebox touch + dac to a Linn Majik DSM. Didn't intend to. Actually went shopping for a new integrated amp and had my sights set on a Naim XS.
Got to hear a Rega brio as well as a Naim Unitiqute but it was the Linn which got my attention. Just so much more musical than the Naim in my opinion (as well as that of my better half). The Naim was good but not as engaging. The shop owner who was doing the demo said the difference was like the players were really enjoying their playing rather than just 'doing the business'. He preferred Linn although the shop carried as much Naim gear.
As to Linn amps, I'm not convinced at present. After a short time back home with the new DSM, I hooked up my old Roksan Kandy Liii power amp to the pre out sockets of the Linn. Thought it might be an interesting listen before selling it on. It's still connected! The Linn musicality remained but with more balls and bass control. It might be due to the Neat Motive 2s requiring more beef but the power amp section of the DSM may be its weakest link. Don't know. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Finally, not compared majik with akurate or klimax so can't comment. I do consider the linn majik to be a step up from a squeezebox touch + linear power + audio gd nfb2 dac (similar price point to Sneaky).
Pedro
iceman16
Well-known member
Hi Cno, Im considering the akurate ds as a source.Does it have to be connected(wired)to my router?Im really torn between the ds and endorphin cdp :?
Pedro2 said:
Hi Pedro, it's great to get your input.
I agree with your assessment of the Linn vs Naim sound....and though I think the DS is something special, their amps leave me cold and uninvolved with the music....though this is immensely personal. This is no surprise to anyone who reads my twaddle, and why I always recommend listening to the DS through one's own amp.
Hearing the improvements you get by moving up the range is very hazardous to the wallet, especially in the context of a system that can maximize this benefit.
Cno
iceman16 said:
I only know what I do....which is hard wired to a NAS....in my case a RipNas.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the Akurate DS/1 was better, but I haven't heard the Endorphin....it would worry me that spending so much money on yesterday's tech is not the way to go. If you want the Pathos sound, imo you would be better going with a Musiteca.
What ever you do, don't spend any money without hearing it first!
gregvet
Well-known member
I have a Majik DS which has replaced my Sonos system as my main music source in my main system. I still use sonos in the kitchen and bedroom.
I have compared it to the sonos (obviously), plus Naim and Olive solutions. The Majik is the best that I have heard, in terms of the balance of detial, PRAT, and musicality. I want to hear what the Accurate etc can do, but am scared my wallet will suffer, hence my refusing to demo them
I have compared it to the sonos (obviously), plus Naim and Olive solutions. The Majik is the best that I have heard, in terms of the balance of detial, PRAT, and musicality. I want to hear what the Accurate etc can do, but am scared my wallet will suffer, hence my refusing to demo them
Macspur
Well-known member
CnoEvil said:
Cno,
I'm a little uncomfortable at your insistance that CD as a media is on the way out. Remember, the same was said about vynal!
Personally, I think there's room in the market for all types of music replay.
Cheers
Mac
Pedro2
Well-known member
Hi Macspur,
I think that cno was referring to cd players rather than cds as media. I tend to agree that the cdp days are numbered as mass market technology. mp3 is already replacing them for most (non audiophile) listeners and streaming of lossless files is getting better for the hi fi enthusiast. The Linn ds machines are knock out and you would be hard pressed to match them with a cdp that doesn't cost a king's ransom! Many could argue that a Linn DS does cost a king's ransom of course!
Pedro
I think that cno was referring to cd players rather than cds as media. I tend to agree that the cdp days are numbered as mass market technology. mp3 is already replacing them for most (non audiophile) listeners and streaming of lossless files is getting better for the hi fi enthusiast. The Linn ds machines are knock out and you would be hard pressed to match them with a cdp that doesn't cost a king's ransom! Many could argue that a Linn DS does cost a king's ransom of course!
Pedro
Macspur said:
Hi Mac,
I don't make this comment lightly or flippantly, so let me try and explain my thinking behind it.
- First of all I'm not saying that there isn't room in the current market for CDPs, as there will (for a while) be people (generally older), who feel more comfortable with what they know.
- Personally, I have never seen the CD as a replacement for Vinyl, but more as a more convenient and often less musical sounding alternative. Now I know this view is challenged, but imo CD and Vinyl are very different formats with a different sound, and different emotional ownership attachments.
- The biggest argument in favour of Streaming (with a decent Streamer) is that it:
a) IMO. Sounds substantially better than the equivalently priced CDP ie. better VFM
b) Is far more flexible with regards what it can do and the resolutions it can handle
c) Has much more convenient storage, access and control over how/where you listen to your music
d) The absence of moving parts / lasers etc means there is much less to go wrong.
- The OP is looking at a £6k CDP, so I feel that his money could possibly be better spent on a Streaming solution, as I have personally heard how a medium priced streamer (eg.Majik) has shown a clean pair of heels to some very expensive CDPs (eg.Mark Levinson).
- I see "Streamer vs CDP" in the same way as I saw "DVD vs Blu-Ray" or 1080i vs 1080p....in other words, taking an existing digital format and substantially improving it; except in the case of streaming, it has also removed the disadvantages of a physical format.
- I was/am an old "dyed-in-the-wool" audiophile, who would be making all the same points that you are, if some time ago, I hadn't been invited by my local Linn dealer to hear what this amazing new-fangled Linn DS could do. It was described by them as a "game changer", and they were not wrong. What I heard made such a impression on me, that it was enough to overcome my technophobic tendencies...as a growing band have also discovered.
- As the new computer savvy generation come forward (eg. my kids), they won't be held back by the old ways and prejudices, and will embrace all the new advances (already happening with the amount of Streamers that are starting to appear on here, compared to even a year ago)....and it's this likely obsolescence within the next few years, that was one of the reasons that made me question the wisdom of such an expensive CDP.
I hope this has made my reasoning a little clearer, and feel totally free to completely disagree with it.
:cheers:
Cno
Macspur
Well-known member
CnoEvil said:
Crystal clear Cno, thank you.
However, personally I see no disadvantage of taking a CD from it's case and placing into a CDP and pressing play.
Also, I think you'd be surprised how many young people are discovering the joys of vynal.
Finally, the OP wouldn't have to spend 6K on a CDP to discover the beauty of superb music replay, as I found in my long search for a player... EMC1UP £3,800 new!
Mac
Macspur said:
Neither did I, until I could peruse my whole CD collection at the push of a button....I now listen to a greater percentage of my music than ever.
Macspur said:
Which bears out my point that Vinyl is a viable alternative to digital.....but down the road, it will always be niche market compared to Streaming.
Macspur said:
Agreed, but a direct comparison with an £1800 Majik DS might prove interesting....I haven't done it, so can't possibly comment!!
bigmoose
Well-known member
Same experience, the integrated amp is good, but I found the Majik 4100 power amp gives a more detail, open and clean sound. I went onto the Linn forum and I found it is quite common for DSM owners to switch off the integrated amp, and use an external power amp.
A lot of people seem to be raving about the Tundra amp which has been designed by a Linn enthusiast... I wish I had £2800 to spare though! :read:
A lot of people seem to be raving about the Tundra amp which has been designed by a Linn enthusiast... I wish I had £2800 to spare though! :read:
Electro
Well-known member
CnoEvil said:
I can second Mac regarding the EMC1 UP CDP I have been using mine daily for nearly 10 years and the Philips CD PRO 2 laser mechanism is still going strong ( touch wood
) and is still the best music source of any type that I have heard including vinyl ,SACD , and DVDA .I have not heard any of the Linn DS range so it would be a very interesting comparison that I am sure would prove interesting but perhaps not in the way you might think
Electro said:I can second Mac regarding the EMC1 UP CDP I have been using mine daily for nearly 10 years and the Philips CD PRO 2 laser mechanism is still going strong ( touch wood
I have not heard any of the Linn DS range so it would be a very interesting comparison that I am sure would prove interesting but perhaps not in the way you might think
You are a candidate for an Electro Streamer, which I'm sure will appear, once they get into the 21st Century!
I might even be a potential customer!
bigmoose said:
Please touch base with any thoughts or improvements that you make to your system.
As well as the Tundra, you should also have this amp in your sights (though it isn't a power amp): http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/nad-c-390dd-direct-digital-integrated-amplifier-tas-224/ (link thx to DocG)
Cno
Electro
Well-known member
CnoEvil said:You are a candidate for an Electro Streamer, which I'm sure will appear, once they get into the 21st Century!
Electrocompaniet rarely do anything hastily
but I am sure it will be worth the wait and definitely a product I would be interested in , but in the meantime I must try and get a listen to a Linn DS and of course an AMS too bigmoose
Well-known member
Ouch, £2500 is over my budget I'm afraid.. At the moment, I'm thinking about getting the +2 channel offer from Linn and bag a Majik 4100 at a bargain price. There is a certain cleaniless about the sound that I like very much.
I need to audition the Roksan M2 power amp as well before Linn offer ends..
I need to audition the Roksan M2 power amp as well before Linn offer ends..
bigmoose said:
Hi BM
It was really meant as a long term suggestion, to put on the back burner.
I will be interested in what you think of the Roksan, but given your taste in sound, I'd be surprised if you'd prefer it to the Linn.
So it looks like I will also be a member in the DS / DSM club. I did not plan to become one but it happened anyway. Some of you might know that I did not get allong with the sound of my Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Concert Grand speakers. I tried to blame my Cyrus amp and took the Viennas to my dealer to try more powerfull amplification. I tried them with the Pathos Logos, the NAD 390 DD and an Audionet amp but nothing changed. The viennas are just not the speakers for me. We used a Majik DSM as source and I decided to try some other speakers connected directly to the Majik DSM. The dealer was keen on showing me Linn speakers but I really disliked them(Majik 109 and 140). The 109s were active but sounded a bit dull and muffled and the 140s were passive but somehow not very well behaved in the bass department. We then switched to the Kef R700 wich was a step up. Really a nice loudspeaker but I think the DSM was underpowered for the R700. The last speaker I listened to was the Audio Physic Tempo 25.
http://www.audiophysic.com/tempo25/index_e.html
What a sound. It was so detailed and involving. The DSM seemed to have no problem at all driving the Tempos. The sound was so open and clean. It really sounded as if a curtain had been lifted. And controlling everything from the kinsky app just brought a smile to my face.
So I walked out of the shop without my VA BBGs but with a Majik DSM and a pair of Tempo 25s instead.
Well, not technically.... now I am waiting for them to be delivered.
I will drive the Tempo 25s with the DSM amp for the time beeing but as funds recover I am thinking of only using the DSM as a preamp. I could of course also use my Cyrus 8xpd as amp in the meantime. I will have to test this out in the coming weeks and see if the Cyrus amplification is superior. In the long run maybe something like the MF M6PRX could work well but your suggestions are always welcome
I hope I did not write to much about speakers here but I wanted to explain how I came to buying a Majik DSM without intending to..
http://www.audiophysic.com/tempo25/index_e.html
What a sound. It was so detailed and involving. The DSM seemed to have no problem at all driving the Tempos. The sound was so open and clean. It really sounded as if a curtain had been lifted. And controlling everything from the kinsky app just brought a smile to my face.
So I walked out of the shop without my VA BBGs but with a Majik DSM and a pair of Tempo 25s instead.
Well, not technically.... now I am waiting for them to be delivered.
I will drive the Tempo 25s with the DSM amp for the time beeing but as funds recover I am thinking of only using the DSM as a preamp. I could of course also use my Cyrus 8xpd as amp in the meantime. I will have to test this out in the coming weeks and see if the Cyrus amplification is superior. In the long run maybe something like the MF M6PRX could work well but your suggestions are always welcome
I hope I did not write to much about speakers here but I wanted to explain how I came to buying a Majik DSM without intending to..
pgoody said:So it looks like I will also be a member in the DS / DSM club. I did not plan to become one but it happened anyway. Some of you might know that I did not get allong with the sound of my Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Concert Grand speakers. I tried to blame my Cyrus amp and took the Viennas to my dealer to try more powerfull amplification. I tried them with the Pathos Logos, the NAD 390 DD and an Audionet amp but nothing changed. The viennas are just not the speakers for me. We used a Majik DSM as source and I decided to try some other speakers connected directly to the Majik DSM. The dealer was keen on showing me Linn speakers but I really disliked them(Majik 109 and 140). The 109s were active but sounded a bit dull and muffled and the 140s were passive but somehow not very well behaved in the bass department. We then switched to the Kef R700 wich was a step up. Really a nice loudspeaker but I think the DSM was underpowered for the R700. The last speaker I listened to was the Audio Physic Tempo 25.
http://www.audiophysic.com/tempo25/index_e.html
What a sound. It was so detailed and involving. The DSM seemed to have no problem at all driving the Tempos. The sound was so open and clean. It really sounded as if a curtain had been lifted. And controlling everything from the kinsky app just brought a smile to my face.
So I walked out of the shop without my VA BBGs but with a Majik DSM and a pair of Tempo 25s instead.
Well, not technically.... now I am waiting for them to be delivered.
I will drive the Tempo 25s with the DSM amp for the time beeing but as funds recover I am thinking of only using the DSM as a preamp. I could of course also use my Cyrus 8xpd as amp in the meantime. I will have to test this out in the coming weeks and see if the Cyrus amplification is superior. In the long run maybe something like the MF M6PRX could work well but your suggestions are always welcome
I hope I did not write to much about speakers here but I wanted to explain how I came to buying a Majik DSM without intending to..
It's great to get your feedback....and welcome to the club!
Hi-fi is a very strange business and keeping an open mind is key for success. I agree with you about Linn speakers which are pleasant and musical, but nothing earth-shattering...a bit meh, if you like!
The R series are imo much better, and the Linn should have been good with them, without really taking them by the scruff of the neck.
I'm a fan of Audio Physic and have never heard one with Linn, but can see how it would work.....very intriguing combination.
In order to come up with advice, can you tell me what you didn't like about the VAs, and what did you make of the Pathos.
I think the MF PRX is a good choice, but would also add:
- Sugden Masterclass SPA-4
- Bel Canto Ref power amps (150s)
- Electrocompaniet AW 2x120-M
Hi Cno,
not sure if you read my update over on the 35i thread but everything is back together now & working beautifully.
the Akurate was picked up about a fortnight ago so I had some time to get it all set-up & going before the MF kit arrived.
Luckily when I had been demoing the unit the dealer had advised me to buy a QNAP NAS drive beforehand & get my music set-up on that with Twonky. So it was pretty much plug & play.
Sound is amazing, detailed without being edgy. It does a great job even with lower bit rate MP3s, but when you give it 24bit files to play with the difference is amazing. Unfortunately the availability of hi-rez files in the type of music that I like is a little limited at the moment. Hopefully things pick up pace over the next few years.
One of the things that I like about the DS solution is that it is not a "static" product. You can play around with it & the way you use it. Different points of control, media players, Linn constantly tweaking & upgrading, different advice & approaches on the forums, the ability to add new functionality. So things change which makes it more intersting IMO.
I'm not anti CD player but to be honest now that I have the DS I don't know why anyone would buy one. The only real downside is the daunting task of ripping my 3000+ CD collection, I might try to find a poor uni student over the christmas holidays!
Apart from the noticeable step-up in SQ of the Akurate over the Majik, one of the main reasons I went for the Akurate was to have balanced outputs. Haven't tried it yet, as mentioned on the 35i thread I wanted to let things settle down first & get used to the sound. then slowly play around with adding/changing cables. But certainly this will not be too far away. I did have my heart set on some Audiquest SKY cables, but this might be beyond my budget at the moment. Am planning on trying some Atlas cables, the hyper, ascent & Maverick. Will let you know how that goes.
So big thanks for your persistant pushing of the LinnDS, certainly been a great addition for me & a great match for the AMS range
not sure if you read my update over on the 35i thread but everything is back together now & working beautifully.
the Akurate was picked up about a fortnight ago so I had some time to get it all set-up & going before the MF kit arrived.
Luckily when I had been demoing the unit the dealer had advised me to buy a QNAP NAS drive beforehand & get my music set-up on that with Twonky. So it was pretty much plug & play.
Sound is amazing, detailed without being edgy. It does a great job even with lower bit rate MP3s, but when you give it 24bit files to play with the difference is amazing. Unfortunately the availability of hi-rez files in the type of music that I like is a little limited at the moment. Hopefully things pick up pace over the next few years.
One of the things that I like about the DS solution is that it is not a "static" product. You can play around with it & the way you use it. Different points of control, media players, Linn constantly tweaking & upgrading, different advice & approaches on the forums, the ability to add new functionality. So things change which makes it more intersting IMO.
I'm not anti CD player but to be honest now that I have the DS I don't know why anyone would buy one. The only real downside is the daunting task of ripping my 3000+ CD collection, I might try to find a poor uni student over the christmas holidays!
Apart from the noticeable step-up in SQ of the Akurate over the Majik, one of the main reasons I went for the Akurate was to have balanced outputs. Haven't tried it yet, as mentioned on the 35i thread I wanted to let things settle down first & get used to the sound. then slowly play around with adding/changing cables. But certainly this will not be too far away. I did have my heart set on some Audiquest SKY cables, but this might be beyond my budget at the moment. Am planning on trying some Atlas cables, the hyper, ascent & Maverick. Will let you know how that goes.
So big thanks for your persistant pushing of the LinnDS, certainly been a great addition for me & a great match for the AMS range
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