The future of vinyl

[Frank Harvey]

As for vinyl being perishable, that is a fact. With every play the LP grinds down its limited life span. Good thing is unlike tape it can just sit there and not deteriorate as much, so you may find as good as new copy from the 50's even today. But many will warp though, depending on storage conditions. It's both fragile and perishable.

If you don't touch the playing surface, store it correctly, and keep your stylus clean and refresh it regularly, a record may deteriorate over the course of your lifetime, but it'll still outlast you. The deterioration is rarely noticeable as it is gradual.

To spin vinyl you have to be ready not only to bear the high entry costs (compared to digital), but also to devote time to seting things up, experimenting, maintanance, cleaning, being carefull, gentle and fiddly with it.

Setting up is only really relevant for mid priced and higher end decks. Most sub £500 decks are virtually plug and play, particularly the Rega RP1 and RP1 Performance Pack models - no weight adjustment needed.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I agree we with matthewpiano we can't predict what is going to survive the test of time, or what trends are going to develop. I am also happy with the fact that vinyl is a growing minority and CD decline has started to plateau. It should keep both formats alive for collectors to enjoy for a long time to come.

Even if the current vinyl resurgence starts dwindling, it will still survive, just as it has done since CD threatened to kill it off.

Funny, I watched Men In Black the other night, and as Kay was showing Jay around the office, he picked up a little black disc, about an inch and a half in diameter, and said that it was going to replace CD.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Not as long as they can just hit "buy now" or even just play on their phone and listen to a track instantly they'll never care. "Ownership" is irrelevant as long as whatever you want to listen to is always available.

"As long as it is available" is the key. I use Napster to listen to stuff to see if I like it - if I do, I buy it. I have a lot of albums saved in my favourites, some I have purchased, others I haven't yet as I wouldn't pay top dollar to own it, or I just haven't got round to it yet. I've noticed over a period of time that some things in my large favourites list I can no longer listen to, although luckily it still shows still it otherwise I wouldn't even notice some of the more obscure stuff disappearing. New stuff will be added to streaming services, but things disappear as well. Also, I tried to listen to the new Bowie album last Friday, and found I could listen to most of it, but not all of it. Worst of all, I couldn't listen to the one track I actually wanted to hear.

In fact ownership may even come to be seen as a bad thing, being restricted to only being able to listen to what you actually own? No thanks, why would anyone want that when they can listen to any track at any time they like?

People will never care about ownership unless and until one of the big players goes out of business and even then I suspect it'll only be if Apple goes bang and people suddenly find they can't listen to their iTunes anymore but that isn't going to happen.

Sadly not.

 

[tonky]

Aaaaargh - a little black disc to replace cd. I misplace enough cds - how am I going to find these things when I misplace them!!. How about a magnetically impregnated house brick - easy to stack too!

tonky

 

[Gazzip]

It is people like us (well people like most of you as I don't own a turntable at the moment) who will dictate what formats survive in the future and those which don't. The only reason that vinyl survies at all today is down to the enthusiast. If hifi enthusiasts had not kept vinyl on life support for the past twenty years I honestly believe that it would have vanished by now and would not be here for the current resurection.

 

[Vladimir]

Otherwise Sleeveface wouldn't exist.

 

[Vladimir]

The logo on the right says Hi-Res. I'm confused.

 

[matt49]

I assume the 'hi res' refers to the unit's facility to convert the TT output to DSD for digital archiving.

 

[Vladimir]

I assume the 'hi res' refers to the unit's facility to convert the TT output to DSD for digital archiving.

D'oh. Didn't see the DSD bit.

 

[iMark]

This new Sony idea of archiving LP's to DSD is just about the most bonkers thing I've read in a while. Everyone knows that the fidelity of an LP is so limited that digitizing to WAV or AIFF (16/44.1) is more than enough.

DSD is just about the most inconvenient file format for consumers and archivers. There is hardly any hardware and software that supports it.

 

[matt49]

This new Sony idea of archiving LP's to DSD is just about the most bonkers thing I've read in a while. Everyone knows that the fidelity of an LP is so limited that digitizing to WAV or AIFF (16/44.1) is more than enough.

DSD is just about the most inconvenient file format for consumers and archivers. There is hardly any hardware and software that supports it.

I agree. The thing is some people swear blind they can tell the difference between DSD and PCM, and that the latter is obnoxious. These people tend to be analog lovers. So there may be a (very small) market out there for a TT that offers a faff-free way of archiving analog as DSD.

 

[tonky]

Sony obviously (and probably correctly) think there is a market for people who want to digitize their vinyl for convenience/longevity etc. There has been a few of these turntables - digitizers cheapo jobs at aldi/lidl over the last year or so. Why not make a better quality one?

It has a magnetics cartridge - I would have liked what hifi to say what this cartridge was in its review and also compare the turntable (sound quality wise) to turntables in the 300-500£ price range. I think the digitizer converts to wav files too - people are prepared to pay for convenience I suppose. Vinyl still sounds very good to a lot of people

tonky (in more sensible mode)

 

[manicm]

If I'm correct the Sony deck rips to hires WAV too.

 

[MrReaper182]

Music labels and Spotify will never be about altruism.

Whoever said it was?

Don't fool yourselves. And therefore true convenience may never materialise.

Of course it will, but not because it benefits the consumer. You give people music on-tap, on-demand whenever they want it, you have a price war because there are too many providers in the market, making it so cheap people don't think twice about paying the money. You make having music when you want it as much of a daily requirement to people as always-on internet is now, then once the smaller players have gone out of business and you have one or two providers with a virtual monopoly, you gradually crank the price up knowing that the vast majority will just keep paying, because they've got so used to a situation where they can have music whenever they want it and they won't want to give that up. Sooner or later either the labels buy up the streaming services or the streaming services buy up the labels and then you have one all-encompassing monolith controlling everything from the studio to the headphones (a la Netflix/Amazon). The shareholders will be delighted!

 

[MrReaper182]

I agree with everything you have said. As far as the corporate machine goes, this is perfect, but how long before the public "backlash" against 'non ownership' by buying some other format?

Not as long as they can just hit "buy now" or even just play on their phone and listen to a track instantly they'll never care. "Ownership" is irrelevant as long as whatever you want to listen to is always available. In fact ownership may even come to be seen as a bad thing, being restricted to only being able to listen to what you actually own? No thanks, why would anyone want that when they can listen to any track at any time they like? People will never care about ownership unless and until one of the big players goes out of business and even then I suspect it'll only be if Apple goes bang and people suddenly find they can't listen to their iTunes anymore but that isn't going to happen.

Nicely put.

 

[manicm]

In the absence of proper artwork or album details there will always be a demand for physical ownership, also to rip as you please for car, portable etc - copy laws notwithstanding. I think LHC is just wrong there. There is a certain satisfaction to be enjoyed even from CD.

 

[MrReaper182]

In the absence of proper artwork or album details there will always be a demand for physical ownership, also to rip as you please for car, portable etc - copy laws notwithstanding. I think LHC is just wrong there. There is a certain satisfaction to be enjoyed even from CD.

I mainly listen to CDs but all you said was wrong because 90 percent of album art work sucks and I can download an album in flac and listen to it in my car using my portable music player.

 

[manicm]

Ee

In the absence of proper artwork or album details there will always be a demand for physical ownership, also to rip as you please for car, portable etc - copy laws notwithstanding. I think LHC is just wrong there. There is a certain satisfaction to be enjoyed even from CD.

No because 90 percent of album art work sucks and I can download an album in flac and listen to it in my car using my portable music player.

That's your very shaky opinion, some artists still do care about artwork etc, even some pop artists.

 

[The_Lhc]

In the absence of proper artwork or album details there will always be a demand for physical ownership, also to rip as you please for car, portable etc - copy laws notwithstanding. I think LHC is just wrong there. There is a certain satisfaction to be enjoyed even from CD.

*Sigh*, why are you so incapable of understanding that what we here enjoy is NOT what the majority are interested in? We here are 1% of the market, if that, the majority do NOT care about the things you mention, they just want convenience over and above anything else.

 

[manicm]

In the absence of proper artwork or album details there will always be a demand for physical ownership, also to rip as you please for car, portable etc - copy laws notwithstanding. I think LHC is just wrong there. There is a certain satisfaction to be enjoyed even from CD.

*Sigh*, why are you so incapable of understanding that what we here enjoy is NOT what the majority are interested in? We here are 1% of the market, if that, the majority do NOT care about the things you mention, they just want convenience over and above anything else.

True, but I'll bet there are those who can't spell 'audiophile' yet sometimes just want to pop in a cd and get on with it. A dying breed but nonetheless...

There are also those who are just averse to using pcs and software amongst the older of us.

 

[MrReaper182]

Ee

In the absence of proper artwork or album details there will always be a demand for physical ownership, also to rip as you please for car, portable etc - copy laws notwithstanding. I think LHC is just wrong there. There is a certain satisfaction to be enjoyed even from CD.

No because 90 percent of album art work sucks and I can download an album in flac and listen to it in my car using my portable music player.

That's your very shaky opinion, some artists still do care about artwork etc, even some pop artists.

The best album artwork for me would be Captain fantastic and the brown dirt cowboy by Elton John but how many bands/singers have the money to pay artists to come up with something like that? The answer is very few so the album artwork ends up being the last thing on their minds and this is why so many album artworks end up sucking.

 

[manicm]

Ee

In the absence of proper artwork or album details there will always be a demand for physical ownership, also to rip as you please for car, portable etc - copy laws notwithstanding. I think LHC is just wrong there. There is a certain satisfaction to be enjoyed even from CD.

No because 90 percent of album art work sucks and I can download an album in flac and listen to it in my car using my portable music player.

That's your very shaky opinion, some artists still do care about artwork etc, even some pop artists.

The best album artwork for me would be Captain fantastic and the brown dirt cowboy by Elton John but how many bands/singers have the money to pay artists to come up with something like that? The answer is very few so the album artwork ends up being the last thing on their minds and this is why so many album artworks end up sucking.

With software a good sleeve doesn't have to cost the earth. It's about creativity. Or sometimes even just good photography. And any artist who's proud of their work will want to make an interesting sleeve.

 

[The_Lhc]

In the absence of proper artwork or album details there will always be a demand for physical ownership, also to rip as you please for car, portable etc - copy laws notwithstanding. I think LHC is just wrong there. There is a certain satisfaction to be enjoyed even from CD.

*Sigh*, why are you so incapable of understanding that what we here enjoy is NOT what the majority are interested in? We here are 1% of the market, if that, the majority do NOT care about the things you mention, they just want convenience over and above anything else.

True, but I'll bet there are those who can't spell 'audiophile' yet sometimes just want to pop in a cd and get on with it. A dying breed but nonetheless...

There are also those who are just averse to using pcs and software amongst the older of us.

Still so blinkered. We aren't talking about US. We're talking about *them*, the people that are happy to listen to everything from their phones and Bluetoothing it to cheap speakers, no PC or software involved. And *them* dictate the market.

 

[MrReaper182]

Ee

In the absence of proper artwork or album details there will always be a demand for physical ownership, also to rip as you please for car, portable etc - copy laws notwithstanding. I think LHC is just wrong there. There is a certain satisfaction to be enjoyed even from CD.

No because 90 percent of album art work sucks and I can download an album in flac and listen to it in my car using my portable music player.

That's your very shaky opinion, some artists still do care about artwork etc, even some pop artists.

The best album artwork for me would be Captain fantastic and the brown dirt cowboy by Elton John but how many bands/singers have the money to pay artists to come up with something like that? The answer is very few so the album artwork ends up being the last thing on their minds and this is why so many album artworks end up sucking.

With software a good sleeve doesn't have to cost the earth. It's about creativity. Or sometimes even just good photography. And any artist who's proud of their work will want to make an interesting sleeve.

Even with todays computer sortware most still suck. Most of the album cover artwork by prog band Yes are beautiful to look at because they hired someone who know what he was doing. My all time favorite album is October rust by gothic metal band Type O Negative but it looks like they made the album cover artwork themselves and result is it sucks.

 

[chebby]

There are also those who are just averse to using pcs and software amongst the older of us.

Indeed, far happier to use my phone, my tablet and apps (with AirPlay) and keep PCs out of it. (I do use a Mac Mini when ripping any new CDs to iTunes and for syncing/backing up devices but I rarely stream from it.)