The deal with subwoofers

[Surly Sid]

Subwoofers have no place in a true 2 channel music system.
Subwoofers are for dudes with cheap AV receivers, who watch Marvel and Avengers movies, and like to hear the drywall shake.

NOT FOR MUSIC!

 

[Dom]

Whilst I agree that sub woofers have no place in a 2 channel system, they aren't half fun to have around.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I guess i’d better stop using the JL Audio Gotham v2 then. Anyway, joking aside imo and ime a subwoofer is the most important component be it for listening to music or listening/watching movies

 

[Deleted member 188533]

I guess i’d better stop using the JL Audio Gotham v2 then.

Ahem. Bass towers.

Bass Towers – PBN Audio

pbnaudio.com

They compliment these.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZCLL1WsDpQ


Also joking aside I like a sub as well. Good bass absolutely adds to the experience for me. I also like headphones with good bass.

 

[davidf]

Spanky - sounds like you’re from the home of the DIY subwoofer. Over there, the desired goal of a subwoofer is highest output level and to reach as deep as possible. These types of subs are obviously fine for home theatre (for the Marvel crowd), but sound bloody awful for music. You can make them sound ok with music of you set them up in the right way, but then they fall short of the intended effect for movies. Music needs speed and control, and a sub needs to sound balanced in a two-channel system in a way that doesn’t make it sound like there’s a sub in the system - it should sound like the sub output is part of what the main speakers are doing. Ken Kreisel’s subs are perfect for this. Funnily enough, his subs aren’t overly popular in the US...

 

[insider9]

I agree subwooders have no room for 2 channel if you have huge floorstanders that produce enough bass. However small bookshelves can be used with a sub, or even small floorstanders. If you're using them properly subs absolutely have a place for music.

 

[scene]

I agree subwooders have no room for 2 channel if you have huge floorstanders that produce enough bass. However small bookshelves can be used with a sub, or even small floorstanders. If you're using them properly subs absolutely have a place for music.

Agree on this, and a number of very respectable 2.1 stereo setups exist for pure music - I'm thinking of something from Avi, for example. A pair of small bookshelf speakers/monitors with a woofer hidden away to give fuller range can be a good solution for music. Having them from the same manufacturer and aimed at music means they do integrate properly.

 

[Jimboo]

I have never owned or trialled one , detest lots of bass. I am listening to Simple Minds Empire and dance on c.d , bass is ample , nice and funky and solid. What would a subwoofer bring to the party? Genuinely interested Kef ls50w on stands.

 

[Dom]

A sub woofer tends to make everything exciting, and add a lot of weight. I don't whether this is unique to my system.

 

[Jimboo]

Out of interest , why did you buy dynaudio speakers when they lacked the bass you wanted?

 

[Al ears]

The OP clearly has no concept as to what hifi is.

 

[Dom]

After owning the M20. I decided that I wanted floor standers, I sold them and got the M30s without audition. The bass is superb, however I was unsure what to buy next amplifier or sub woofer.

 

[chris661]

I have never owned or trialled one , detest lots of bass. I am listening to Simple Minds Empire and dance on c.d , bass is ample , nice and funky and solid. What would a subwoofer bring to the party? Genuinely interested Kef ls50w on stands.

IIRC, the Kef LS50s are tuned to around 47Hz, so they won't get much lower than that.

So, if you were to play a piece of music that has bass below 47Hz, you're missing out on those notes. Whether that's a big deal is up to you entirely. In my opinion, bass down to 40Hz does the job for most genres of music.

FWIW, I believe that subwoofers can have a place in a 2-channel music system. They can extend the low-frequency response of the system down into the low bass, and if you use a highpass filter for your main speakers, you'll actually reduce distortion there, too.

Chris

 

[davidf]

To add to what chris661 has said, the LS50 Wireless are tuned to 43Hz in standard mode. You can choose less extension (46Hz) or more bass extension (40Hz). I’m sure this has been changed since launch as my review had the standard setting down as 45Hz. Looks like I’ll have to go back and update the review again!
Adding a sub to this - when set up correctly - shouldn’t sound like you have a sub connected. It should just sound like the KEFs reach deeper, the sub shouldn’t stand out in any way, so placement is important, as is choosing the right crossover point for the speaker and the room. As an example, I have a bass peak around 70Hz, so if I let speakers handle that range rather than a subwoofer, that frequency band isn’t as excited as it is when a more capable sub is covering that range.
You should end up with the LS50 Wireless (or any other speaker for that matter) sounding sweeter as a result, producing less distortion, and gaining more headroom as the speaker won’t have to do the low stuff. If adding a good subwoofer, I’d be inclined to set the LS50 Wireless bass to less extension - doing this will make sure that what they do cover are well within their capabilities, and you’ll be relying on less DSP processing too.
Also, having a sub in any system allows you to control the level of bass in relation to the speakers, so there should never be ‘too much’ or ‘too little’ - you can set it to however you want it.

 

[Surly Sid]

The OP clearly has no concept as to what hifi is.

Bla! Spanky knows a ton and is sticking to his guns!

 

[chris661]

Well, so far you haven't actually provided any real argument or evidence - just some emotional biases which, I'm sure, would be reversed if you heard a subwoofer that was set up properly.

If you know something the rest of us don't, you're welcome to share.

Chris

 

[MeanandGreen]

What a stupid thread. A subwoofer can make a system into something truly special.

It’s not about wall shaking lows. It’s about definition, smoothness and depth.

 

[Surly Sid]

Well, so far you haven't actually provided any real argument or evidence - just some emotional biases which, I'm sure, would be reversed if you heard a subwoofer that was set up properly.

If you know something the rest of us don't, you're welcome to share.

Chris

Spanky has heard it all and Spanky knows!

 

[MUSICRAFT]

A subwoofer can make a system into something truly special.

Why send a boy to do a mans work. Sub bass fq's are best reproduced be a subwoofer. A subwoofer is the ultimate component

 

[Jimboo]

I seem to be alone but.... I have listened a lot to my little system in the last few months and I am happy with the sound. Linn Axis sounds good and my audiolab transport is really rather good. The ls50w sings and the bass coming from the currently playing triffids album is just peachy.
A subwoofer may bring something to the party but another cable and another box just isn't compatible with the main reason for choosing my system after years of dicking around with every hi-fi fad and fashion. I have a simple wonderful and clutter free system that just sings , except for the apps of course the awful bloody apps.

 

[Jimboo]

Truth is of course if naim or Linn etc came out with a tweeterwoofer it would have it's fans and would be essential to some. I have found peace and enjoyment. The agony and hand wringing has ended. Now I sit back and enjoy the music.

 

[Dom]

Sub woofer's are good for music and movies. Watched Aliens and Prometheus and I was glad that the sub woofer was there. It's an extra speaker what could go wrong. The bass notes, the crescendos, the depth. Wow.

 

[Jimboo]

Well I guess the deep noises distracted you from the weakness of the scripts.

 

[k77stan]

It also boils down to genre of music. I listen to a lot of heavy bands with busy drummers some of which do a ferocious double bass. Without a bit of a thump from a sub it just doesn't sound enough exciting. I personally don't rely heavily on my sub, but do like having it..

 

[Dom]

Sub woofers are like coke and beer, it tastes like sweet tea!