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The changing nationality of a system.

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Gray

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So if company A start rising the prices of their turntable once the turntable becomes popular, but loads of people still buy said turntable, then obviously the turntable must be worth that amount to said buyers.
All true James. Worth it to said buyers, buyers fortunate enough to have the required disposable income.
Now I'm no socialist (far from it) but it concerns me that, for financial reasons, more people than necessary will be denied the benefit of company A's products.
You could argue that's the way it's always been. If you can't afford quality, tough luck.
But it doesn't have to be that way.
You may be too young to remember the original Nad 3020 amplifier.
It was arguably the most influential hi-fi product there's ever been. It was a revelation to many, giving them a first taste of quality at what you might have described as an artificially low price, when compared to the competition.
It was massively popular. They could easily have had the 'Let's charge what people think it's worth' (or 'let's charge what we can get away with' as I prefer to call it) attitude - but they didn't.
Their lack of greed paid off for them, loads of us consumers and, ultimately, other manufacturers, by introducing laymen to quality audio.

One thing is for sure though, If I owned a company, I'd be happy if all my customers were as loyal and accepting as you.
 
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James83

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All true James. Worth it to said buyers, buyers fortunate enough to have the required disposable income.
Now I'm no socialist (far from it) but it concerns me that, for financial reasons, more people than necessary will be denied the benefit of company A's products.
You could argue that's the way it's always been. If you can't afford quality, tough luck.
But it doesn't have to be that way.
You may be too young to remember the original Nad 3020 amplifier.
It was arguably the most influential hi-fi product there's ever been. It was a revelation to many, giving them a first taste of quality at what you might have described as an artificially low price, when compared to the competition.
It was massively popular. They could easily have had the 'Let's charge what people think it's worth' (or 'let's charge what we can get away with' as I prefer to call it) attitude - but they didn't.
Their lack of greed paid off for them, loads of us consumers and, ultimately, other manufacturers, by introducing laymen to quality audio.

One thing is for sure though, If I owned a company, I'd be happy if all my customers were as loyal and accepting as you.
But, if some people think the item is worth the money, and some don't. Who's to say who is right and who is wrong?

Now I'm not for raising prices unnecessarily, but if people think it us worth it.
I just vote with my feet.

Too expensive and I will probably walk away. Artificially low, and I will probably walk away
 
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Gray

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But, if some people think the item is worth the money, and some don't. Who's to say who is right and who is wrong?

Now I'm not for raising prices unnecessarily, but if people think it us worth it.
I just vote with my feet.

Too expensive and I will probably walk away. Artificially low, and I will probably walk away
Agree with most of what you say James, but it's just the 'artificially' low bit.....
If an item uses the same parts, with the same QC standards, I presume that farming out the labour is what makes it artificially low to you.
Just don't run away with the idea that all company employees benefit from those companies charging artificially high prices (y)
 
Never conscientiously thought about Nationality of any of my kit. That said, most of my early kit was Japanese (Pioneer, Marantz, Hitachi, JVC....). I've had a lot of British stuff... or were they British?

Wharfedale were British but taken over by Rank Organization, which is American. I think they're owned now by IAG, which is Chinese.

Even though I've owned Arcams and now Leemas, Exposure I wonder if any of the components made in the far east? I know Arcam starting producing stuff in China and now the USA IIRC.

I've only ever purchased based on budget and sound and never given much thought to what part of the globe they come from.
Same as me only when I started the availability of kit from abroad was limited and then it wasn't cheap.
 

James83

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Agree with most of what you say James, but it's just the 'artificially' low bit.....
If an item uses the same parts, with the same QC standards, I presume that farming out the labour is what makes it artificially low to you.
Just don't run away with the idea that all company employees benefit from those companies charging artificially high prices (y)
Yes, I disagree with farming out to cheaper nations.
That means, if I buy a Rega, it has to be made in the UK (which it is, as they are seemingly proud of being able to do what they do, and they want to keep QC in check).
If I buy a Primare, it should be made in Sweden (not china).
If I buy a Wharfedale, it should be made in the UK (unless they want to become a fully fledged chinese company now)
You have to at least pretend you are proud of where you come from, surely? Plus, if you cant be bothered to employ as many people as economically possible in your home country, then why should I be bothered to show you my money? Plus lets be fair, the largest labour supplier of convenience is hardly a country that has the same values as most other nations.

Obviously, your product may mean using outside designed components, like speaker manufacturers using drivers from say, Seas. That is fine, so long as the drivers are made in their proper country. Which in the case of Seas, I believe they are.

As for those companies that charge artificially high prices, I accept that it could be for numerous reasons.
If the price starts going up as the product becomes more popular, then it is no doubt because they realise they can make extra profit.
 

James83

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One thing is for sure though, If I owned a company, I'd be happy if all my customers were as loyal and accepting as you.
Oh, and an extra point on this.
I'm loyal to companies that provide good products, and good service.
Those that have artificially high prices may not enter the equation. But then again, they might.
 

Gray

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If the price starts going up as the product becomes more popular, then it is no doubt because they realise they can make extra profit.
....and those without the disposable income have to do without. That was my point. I think we must agree to disagree on the need for lower prices (You clearly don't need them, which is great for you, but it's worth remembering that some people really do).
 
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Gray

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The initial point of my thread was to demonstrate the changing prevalence of hifi equipment it wasn't meant to be the start of a 'I hate foreign stuff' thread.
However, with hindsight, I could have anticipated it would....
I think, given the choice, most people would prefer their stuff to be completely manufactured and assembled in their own Country. But that ship has sailed....and returned with containers full of foreign goods.
As an example, I'm considering buying a headphone amp.
Probably the best (quality / value) in their respective price bands are from the USA and China.
Good luck to anyone with a desire to avoid foreign.
 
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James83

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The initial point of my thread was to demonstrate the changing prevalence of hifi equipment it wasn't meant to be the start of a 'I hate foreign stuff' thread.
However, with hindsight, I could have anticipated it would....
I havent seen anyone say they hate foreign stuff.
 

James83

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....and those without the disposable income have to do without. That was my point. I think we must agree to disagree on the need for lower prices (You clearly don't need them, which is great for you, but it's worth remembering that some people really do).
But i've already said i disagree with artificially raising prices.
It rarely suits anybody except shareholders. Unless of course they keep the excess profits to help them get through the lean times, in which case, fair enough.

I don't disagree with lower prices, as long as they are sustainable. Or unless the company has a billionaire backer who doesn't mind losing money.
So if there is anything we disagree on, it is perhaps over artificially low prices. Or in other words, prices kept low by farming out manufacture to a country of convenience.

Now if some company realises their products are worth more to people than they thought, and so start increasing prices just because they can. Then yes it is annoying, but that is unfortunately life. If that means you have to go without that product, then that is very unfortunate. It happens to everybody though.
 

iMark

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Brands are marketed at different prices in different markets. Some hifi that is good value for money in the UK is almost twice as expensive here in NL.
 

nopiano

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The initial point of my thread was to demonstrate the changing prevalence of hifi equipment it wasn't meant to be the start of a 'I hate foreign stuff' thread.
However, with hindsight, I could have anticipated it would....
I guess it did highlight how many of the brands we have traditionally thought of as British - the likes of Quad, Leak, Cambridge and Wharfedale, for example - are owned by or built in the Far East.

In fact, as Who Owns Who list would be a pretty handy thing to refer to sometimes.
 
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nopiano

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Brands are marketed at different prices in different markets. Some hifi that is good value for money in the UK is almost twice as expensive here in NL.
I can well believe that. And for many years products from the USA seemed very costly over here. That may account for my own move to British-made items, though I can’t recall I was particularly aware of it at the time.
 
Bit late to the party but kit has always been Japanese, (current TT German but Japanese branded): Awai, Akai, Technics, Kenwood, Marantz. Speakers: British.
I can well believe that. And for many years products from the USA seemed very costly over here. That may account for my own move to British-made items, though I can’t recall I was particularly aware of it at the time.
That's why I started out with British hifi, back them the cost of new-fangled kit from Japan was considerably more expensive.
American kit of today seems to cost the same here in pounds as it does there in dollars, are we bring scr+wed? It certainly would seem so.
 
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James83

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Whatever you do, make sure you avoid the current thread titled 'Hidden gems / bang for buck'.
It contains some quality products at artificially low prices.
Seriously, you'd need them to be 5x the price before even considering them ;)
If they are artificially low in the sense I am using the term, then they would need to be free before I considered them!!
So you might be a little out there.
But nicely put good sir.
 
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insider9

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Fascinating subject. I'm a big fan of American, Danish and Japanese brands. But had so many others.

I've gone through so many changes since I've joined the forum that it would take me too long to share. One thing has been constant. Not only nationality has changed but also era it was made in.

My current hifi is from Japanese golden era (late 80's) and that's where I drew the line. Had my electronics serviced a few months back and hope they will last another 40 years.
 

manicm

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When I stated all my stuff was second hand and cheep. The most expensive thing I owned was probably £230. Now I own a CD player which I brought brand new for £700 and I still can not believe I spent that much on a disc spinner in the 21st century. I'm probably a Rega person for the rest of my life now as I can easily see me staying with Rega for my future amps and and speakers upgrades.
Looking out for a review of the new Rega Kyte speakers. And hoping they launch a streamer. Maybe they can license the BluOS platform?
 

James83

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Looking out for a review of the new Rega Kyte speakers. And hoping they launch a streamer. Maybe they can license the BluOS platform?
Unless Roy Gandy is just trying to hide an immanent release, I wouldn't hold out my hope on this.
Seemingly they have a design in progress, but there are lots of licenses and outside agreements etc needed, and as Mr Gandy said, it is probably just as easy to use a computer. Plus already plenty of competition.
He certainly doesn't seem very keen on the idea.
Never say never I suppose, but I wouldn't hold your breath!
 
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Gray

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You may be too young to remember the original Nad 3020 amplifier.
It was arguably the most influential hi-fi product there's ever been. It was a revelation to many, giving them a first taste of quality at what you might have described as an artificially low price, when compared to the competition.
Looks like WHF agree:
 

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