The Cable Conundrum. Are We Really Hearing The Difference ?

[Vond]

Hi everyone,

As a long-time HiFi enthusiast and someone who enjoys tinkering with quality audio gear (old and new), I’d like to open a conversation that’s been on my mind for a while — one I believe many of us have pondered at some point.

Although I own and have invested in good quality interconnects, speaker cables, and power cords over the years, I keep coming back to a fundamental question:

> Do we really need to spend significant amounts of money on high-end cables when — inside every audio component — signal transmission relies on tiny wires, standard traces, and a drop of solder connecting everything?



We can admire the thick jackets, exotic materials, and meticulous construction of premium cables. Yes, they look stunning and give off a sense of quality — but are they primarily cosmetic? Or do they truly offer a level of sonic improvement that we can actually hear?

Here’s where I’d love your thoughts:

The limiting factor of human hearing — With our ears generally topping out around 20kHz (and often much less as we age), can we really discern the differences that cable manufacturers claim — especially when those claims enter the territory of the ultra-fine or inaudible?

The internal wiring paradox — Inside even high-end amplifiers, DACs, CD players, or speakers, the signal paths are mostly made up of relatively ordinary components: PCB traces, capacitors, thin wires, and solder joints. Doesn’t that create a bottleneck, or at least raise the question of diminishing returns when using expensive cables externally?

Psychoacoustics and expectation bias — Can the perceived improvement in sound often be attributed more to expectation, price, and appearance than actual measurable difference?


To be clear, I'm not against investing in well-made cables — I’ve bought and kept several that I enjoy using. I just think this is a topic that deserves open, critical discussion, especially for those just starting out in HiFi who might feel pressure to overspend in this area.

Looking forward to your insights, experiences, and (friendly!) debates.

Best regards,
Reginald Mintoff
(Malta-based HiFi hobbyist and fan of classic British audio gear)


---

 

[Gray]

...Looking forward to your insights, experiences, and (friendly!) debates.

Strap in Reg 👍

 

[RTHerringbone]

I imagine general sentiment is captured in this existing active thread:

T

Thread 'The Audio Cable Fraud (With Ethan Winer)'

Jan 18, 2025

View: https://youtu.be/hOoub4D1O7k?si=-Y9igDYee0AWJmDr​

An interesting video here on a point which many consumer audiophiles like to brush under the carpet.​

• ToppingSMSL
• Replies: 75
• Forum: Headphones & Audio Accessories

• 

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

I won't bother elucidating on my personal experiences, but it's something the cable companies could easily settle - properly-conducted testing showing that their product developers could reliably tell the difference. No such proof exists, as far as I am aware.

(Posts which get personal will be deleted and appropriate actions taken. This will not be allowed to descend into the usual bunfight.)

 

[jjbomber]

Hi everyone,

> Do we really need to spend significant amounts of money on high-end cables when — inside every audio component — signal transmission relies on tiny wires, standard traces, and a drop of solder connecting everything?

Best regards,
Reginald Mintoff
(Malta-based HiFi hobbyist and fan of classic British audio gear)

People who can afford them will tell you yes. People who can't afford them will tell you no. We normally get about 20 pages of different views, but they all confirm this general point.

 

[Al ears]

People that can afford them have generally been beguiled by the manufacturers and reviews, people that cannot afford them are generally happy with their lot......
I have expensive speaker cables simply because they came thrown -in with the speakers when I bought them second-hand.
Haven't been bothered to buy cheaper cables to see if there is any discernable difference because there's no point.

 

[abacus]

Hi everyone,

As a long-time HiFi enthusiast and someone who enjoys tinkering with quality audio gear (old and new), I’d like to open a conversation that’s been on my mind for a while — one I believe many of us have pondered at some point.

Although I own and have invested in good quality interconnects, speaker cables, and power cords over the years, I keep coming back to a fundamental question:

> Do we really need to spend significant amounts of money on high-end cables when — inside every audio component — signal transmission relies on tiny wires, standard traces, and a drop of solder connecting everything?



We can admire the thick jackets, exotic materials, and meticulous construction of premium cables. Yes, they look stunning and give off a sense of quality — but are they primarily cosmetic? Or do they truly offer a level of sonic improvement that we can actually hear?

Here’s where I’d love your thoughts:

The limiting factor of human hearing — With our ears generally topping out around 20kHz (and often much less as we age), can we really discern the differences that cable manufacturers claim — especially when those claims enter the territory of the ultra-fine or inaudible?

The internal wiring paradox — Inside even high-end amplifiers, DACs, CD players, or speakers, the signal paths are mostly made up of relatively ordinary components: PCB traces, capacitors, thin wires, and solder joints. Doesn’t that create a bottleneck, or at least raise the question of diminishing returns when using expensive cables externally?

Psychoacoustics and expectation bias — Can the perceived improvement in sound often be attributed more to expectation, price, and appearance than actual measurable difference?


To be clear, I'm not against investing in well-made cables — I’ve bought and kept several that I enjoy using. I just think this is a topic that deserves open, critical discussion, especially for those just starting out in HiFi who might feel pressure to overspend in this area.

Looking forward to your insights, experiences, and (friendly!) debates.

Best regards,
Reginald Mintoff
(Malta-based HiFi hobbyist and fan of classic British audio gear)


---

This topic has been done to death in multiple forums worldwide (Including WHF) so just do a google search and you find your answers (Or even just a search on this forum).

Bill

 

[davidf]

Here’s where I’d love your thoughts:

The limiting factor of human hearing — With our ears generally topping out around 20kHz (and often much less as we age), can we really discern the differences that cable manufacturers claim — especially when those claims enter the territory of the ultra-fine or inaudible?

The internal wiring paradox — Inside even high-end amplifiers, DACs, CD players, or speakers, the signal paths are mostly made up of relatively ordinary components: PCB traces, capacitors, thin wires, and solder joints. Doesn’t that create a bottleneck, or at least raise the question of diminishing returns when using expensive cables externally?

Psychoacoustics and expectation bias — Can the perceived improvement in sound often be attributed more to expectation, price, and appearance than actual measurable difference?

Differences between anything aren't limited to the very high frequencies that not all of us can reach.

Very short cable runs in amplifiers, which are active components (unlike a passive run of cable).

If we all use expectation bias to not hear a difference, then we can bankrupt the cable business.

 

[Gray]

People who can afford them will tell you yes. People who can't afford them will tell you no.

Plenty of those that can afford them will tell you no.
I dare say that everybody on this forum could afford to spend £400 on speaker cables.
OP Reg just needs to understand why they don't.

If we all use expectation bias to not hear a difference, then we can bankrupt the cable business.

Based on the ridiculously high price of some cables, their audibly positive differences MUST, EASILY override any negative expectation......you'd think.

 

[abacus]

Differences between anything aren't limited to the very high frequencies that not all of us can reach.

Very short cable runs in amplifiers, which are active components (unlike a passive run of cable).

If we all use expectation bias to not hear a difference, then we can bankrupt the cable business.

" then we can bankrupt the cable business."

Like all scammers when you take down one, another will take its place, so the scam cable business will still be around, just with a different name.

Bill

 

[davidf]

I was making a point.

I once borrowed some fairly expensive cables to try out, and obviously, I was expecting to hear a marked improvement. I hoped to really, as they had a great reputation and I could've picked them up for next to nothing, as they were some old demo cables that had been sitting round, and wasn't even a brand the retailer still sold. I didn't buy them. I didn't feel they offered anything over what I already had. Where was my expectation bias then?

 

[Revolutions]

I was making a point.

I once borrowed some fairly expensive cables to try out, and obviously, I was expecting to hear a marked improvement. I hoped to really, as they had a great reputation and I could've picked them up for next to nothing, as they were some old demo cables that had been sitting round, and wasn't even a brand the retailer still sold. I didn't buy them. I didn't feel they offered anything over what I already had. Where was my expectation bias then?

A psychologist might say that the price you paid would also have a bearing on the expectation of quality. The problem with biases, or heuristics, are that they are an evolutionary quirk that arise from the complexity of our brains. It's the outcome of us using systems to take shortcuts in thinking - either for speed (not get eaten) or efficiency (brains use a lot of energy). They're subconscious, and we have no idea when it's happening, nor any real protection over them. We are all susceptible to bias in all sorts of ways, and following consistent processes is the only way to avoid them - which humans generally dislike given the opportunity.

So we spend our lives running riot without thinking. Cos our brains are out buddies, they post-rationalise all the decisions we've made, good or bad. So after the event it's likely you'll lie to yourself to tell the story to yourself that makes you the hero. Because, after all you are the hero of your own story.

 

[AJM1981]

I am with anyone who has a quite visible view on the backside of their loudspeaker and thinks that a complimenting cable is a good choice for optical reasons, as it is part of the interior. Also with anyone who just wants to have a sturdy cable that creates easy hot-swapping options. Something that one would use in a showroom to swap loudspeakers all the time. I don't have reasons to do it for a difference in sound.

 

[Jasonovich]

Ah no no no no
Not another cable thread, I going to change my passion for Hifi to passion for beach volleyball 😂

 

[plastic penguin]

Ah no no no no
Not another cable thread, I going to change my passion for Hifi to passion for beach volleyball 😂

I think I'll join you 😂

 

[JDl]

Hi everyone,

As a long-time HiFi enthusiast and someone who enjoys tinkering with quality audio gear (old and new), I’d like to open a conversation that’s been on my mind for a while — one I believe many of us have pondered at some point.

Although I own and have invested in good quality interconnects, speaker cables, and power cords over the years, I keep coming back to a fundamental question:

> Do we really need to spend significant amounts of money on high-end cables when — inside every audio component — signal transmission relies on tiny wires, standard traces, and a drop of solder connecting everything?



We can admire the thick jackets, exotic materials, and meticulous construction of premium cables. Yes, they look stunning and give off a sense of quality — but are they primarily cosmetic? Or do they truly offer a level of sonic improvement that we can actually hear?

Here’s where I’d love your thoughts:

The limiting factor of human hearing — With our ears generally topping out around 20kHz (and often much less as we age), can we really discern the differences that cable manufacturers claim — especially when those claims enter the territory of the ultra-fine or inaudible?

The internal wiring paradox — Inside even high-end amplifiers, DACs, CD players, or speakers, the signal paths are mostly made up of relatively ordinary components: PCB traces, capacitors, thin wires, and solder joints. Doesn’t that create a bottleneck, or at least raise the question of diminishing returns when using expensive cables externally?

Psychoacoustics and expectation bias — Can the perceived improvement in sound often be attributed more to expectation, price, and appearance than actual measurable difference?


To be clear, I'm not against investing in well-made cables — I’ve bought and kept several that I enjoy using. I just think this is a topic that deserves open, critical discussion, especially for those just starting out in HiFi who might feel pressure to overspend in this area.

Looking forward to your insights, experiences, and (friendly!) debates.

Best regards,
Reginald Mintoff
(Malta-based HiFi hobbyist and fan of classic British audio gear)


---

Hi Vond. My own experience is fairly limited, however I have reasonable good quality system (I think) which comprises CD player, Integrated Amplifier and speakers.
For my RCA interconnects, I use th

I was making a point.

I once borrowed some fairly expensive cables to try out, and obviously, I was expecting to hear a marked improvement. I hoped to really, as they had a great reputation and I could've picked them up for next to nothing, as they were some old demo cables that had been sitting round, and wasn't even a brand the retailer still sold. I didn't buy them. I didn't feel they offered anything over what I already had. Where was my expectation bias then?

Yes. I normally use the Van Dam RCA cables with Neutrik Rean connectors because I like Neutrik connectors. Whether they sound different to any other cables, I have no idea and don't care. I buy them because I trust that the construction quality will be reasonable or adequate.
I bought a pair of Chord Clearway partly because a certain magazine had written reviews saying they were extremely good at conveying this, that and the other, sound wise. I had no expectations whatsoever regarding what they might or might not do to the sound. Obviously, considering they cost me about £70 a pair, rather than the £20 or so that my usual RCA cables cost, I hoped to hear a difference but didn't expect to, or not to. To be honest, I didn't hear a difference, so, as you say "...where was my expectation bias...."? It wasn't there and didn't manifest in my mind.
I think the term "expectation bias" has become a bit of a trope that can be aimed anyone who can hear a difference between different components, along with the insistence that any listening done without "blind testing" is invalid, which in my view is ridiculous.

 

[Jasonovich]

Hi Vond. My own experience is fairly limited, however I have reasonable good quality system (I think) which comprises CD player, Integrated Amplifier and speakers.
For my RCA interconnects, I use th

Yes. I normally use the Van Dam RCA cables with Neutrik Rean connectors because I like Neutrik connectors. Whether they sound different to any other cables, I have no idea and don't care. I buy them because I trust that the construction quality will be reasonable or adequate.

I think the term "expectation bias" has become a bit of a trope that can be aimed anyone who can hear a difference between different components, along with the insistence that any listening done without "blind testing" is invalid, which in my view is ridiculous.

You absolutely nailed it on the head.
I have the USB Clearway, I'm using this on my Eversolo DAC.
In my first opening thread, I was singing the praises for it, it may be because it provided better insulation against radio interferences than the one I had before, thus, less degradation of the sound.
These days I don't bash my head over it, like you, I prioritise the quality and construction. 😉