The Audio Cable Fraud (With Ethan Winer)

[Jasonovich]

I have learnt from the many threads you can't move people with entrenched views and that includes myself.

Cables are conductors and some are better designed than others.
I accept from certain brands there's a lot of cynical marketing and snake ointment, which has stirred up a lot of derision within the Hifi community.

Here's the thing, copper cables of similar construction, may sound similar and let's clarify this further, cables don't produce sound, they carry the sound.

Pure Silver or Silver plated cables tend to be brighter sounding than copper, this can't be down to perception or imagined, when it is the norm that is accepted by the wider Hifi community.

Oh sure, when you measure the volts under the oscillator it's the same flat line, oh sure, all cables have the same copper composition or sufficiently engineered carrying the signal from A to B, what signal measuring can't do, is convey the level of corruption from noise interference from RF signals.

The whole debate reminds me of the glass half empty or half full.

I also think too much credence is weighted towards the placebo phenomenon, but if it is present, this tends to wear off after extensive listening.
The best qualification is your God given senses, your EARS!!

 

[abacus]

Silver is more conductive (Lower Resistance) then Copper of the same size.

 

[Friesiansam]

I also think too much credence is weighted towards the placebo phenomenon, but if it is present, this tends to wear off after extensive listening.

When I bought the Beyerdynamic T5Ps I was very happy with the at first, it was only after about a month that I realised they were not for me, due to them being too clinical. Fortunately, bought them from Amazon during the first Covid lockdown, when they extended their returns window.

 

[Gray]

If you are one of those people obsessed with graphs and blind tests...

For me it's not a case of being obssessed with blind tests....

I chose my headphone amp and headphones because they sound right to me and, sent back Beyerdynamic T5Ps, because they sounded too clinical.

And you chose your headphones in the best way.
But, my point would be that you could easily tell those headphones apart in a blind test.

If I could only perceive a difference until I did a blind test, personally I'd regard that 'difference' as invalid.

I've often seen comments suggesting that if someone perceives a difference....that's all that matters.
(Sort of like saying that if Trump perceives he's the Pope, that's all that matters - his word is all we need).

 

[Friesiansam]

I've often seen comments suggesting that if someone perceives a difference....that's all that matters.
(Sort of like saying that if Trump perceives he's the Pope, that's all that matters - his word is all we need).

I don’t want to say there is a right way and a wrong way but, my way is to go by what my ears tell me sounds right. If someone else want’s to do it in a more scientific way, that’s up to them. What greatly annoys me, is when someone comes here saying their way is the right way and, if you do things differently you are wrong and an idiot. You know who I’m talking about…

BTW, I assume you saw this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdrg8zkz8d0o

 

[Jasonovich]

For me it's not a case of being obssessed with blind tests....

And you chose your headphones in the best way.
But, my point would be that you could easily tell those headphones apart in a blind test.

If I could only perceive a difference until I did a blind test, personally I'd regard that 'difference' as invalid.

I've often seen comments suggesting that if someone perceives a difference....that's all that matters.
(Sort of like saying that if Trump perceives he's the Pope, that's all that matters - his word is all we need).

Now Gray why on earth did you say that🤣

 

[Jasonovich]

I don’t want to say there is a right way and a wrong way but, my way is to go by what my ears tell me sounds right. If someone else what’s to do it in a more scientific way, that’s up to them. What greatly annoys me, is when someone comes here saying their way is the right way and, if you do things differently you are wrong and an idiot. You know who I’m talking about…

BTW, I assume you saw this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdrg8zkz8d0o

Indeed 😊

 

[Jasonovich]

When I bought the Beyerdynamic T5Ps I was very happy with the at first, it was only after about a month that I realised they were not for me, due to them being too clinical. Fortunately, bought them from Amazon during the first Covid lockdown, when they extended their returns window.

The Beyerdynamic range tend to be clinical aimed mostly at professional studios.
The only exception is the Amiron, designed for the home market. Really nothing like it's siblings.
It has the right amount of clarity without the coldness associated with the brand.

 

[Gray]

Now Gray why on earth did you say that🤣

My name for him uses 4 different letters 😉

 

[Jasonovich]

My name for him uses 4 different letters 😉

 

[idc]

If you search "Testing audiophile claims and myths" on Headfi, I have a thread, as Prog Rock Man, where I have collated blind tests of all sorts of hifi components. The basic conclusion is that speakers make the biggest difference, followed by amps. Cables make no difference. There is also a thread, "Are blind tests bogus? Examples of blind tests with positive results". It is shorter than the other thread.

​

 

[davidf]

The basic conclusion is that speakers make the biggest difference, followed by amps.

The biggest 'perceivable' difference. Swapping an amp out in a mismatched system can make a huge difference. But then, it's a bit like those who can't see the difference between a full HD TV and a 4K one. There are those who know exactly what to look for when comparing. It's why quick AB demos don't work, as you're not giving those listening enough time to appreciate what the system is doing, so they end up comparing the most obvious thing, tonal balance. That's not as blatant with amplifiers as it is loudspeakers.

 

[bemaniac]

I only use amazon basics cables on all my kit and have since they existed. I'll never change cables no matter how expensive my hifi system gets. They are it and they are 99.9999999% of it. I genuinely use What Hifi for my separates purchases and believe in having a clean path with correct grounding etc but it's cheap to achieve this.

 

[Jasonovich]

I have been a hifi hobbyists for 40 years now.
I not going to slap my gloves in the face of the cable protagonist.

I believe someone commented already, you either accept cables make a difference or not, this doesn't justify people turning into pressure cookers which are close to exploding.

I speak only for myself and my experience using cables.

Lovely graphs and measurements is never a substitute for subjective listening. And believe me, working as an Accountant in the public sector, I've seen a lot of charts 😄

My findings;
Solid cables work best for speakers with sharp forward sounding tweeters but with mellow sounding tweeters it can sound languid and lazy.

Multi strand cables work best with systems with understated bass but with mother of all big boxes can sound overpowering and booming. Speaker placement is critical here, moving the speakers away from the wall will have a much bigger impact than the cables.

There are hybrid cables solutions with an assortment of multi strand and solid core, which probably works best in most setups.

Let me reiterate, please don't lose sleep over cables, of all components that turn the cob wheel, it is the last piece of the puzzle, not the first.

Also, low resolution systems particularly those put together on a budget won't benefit from exotica cables. Any ol' copper will do. Got any spare change for little Mikey gov'nor?

Mogami interconnect cables work well on my setup and love those faux Nordisk cables which are relatively cheap on AliExpress.

Count to ten, 1,2,3.....8 9 10! Oh my gawd hordes of angry wildebeest are coming in my direction.
Run,.....mummy!
🙂

 

[abacus]

As I have said before (And I will repeat again), there is nothing wrong about expressing your opinion on how good cables can sound to you, the problem comes when people push there personal opinions as fact without providing any verifiable evidence. (Many Hi-Fi cable manufactures are also guilty of this)
Myself I always make a point of using professional cables, not because they sound better than Amazon Basics etc. but they are much better made (Unlike a domestic environment the professional market is brutal on cables, so have to be really reliable), plus the equipment they are used on makes most Hi-Fi stuff (Even expensive stuff) seem quite entry level.
In addition most people feel better if something looks good (Looks the part) even if it makes no difference, so just go with what you feel is best for you.

Bill

 

[Gray]

people feel better if something looks good (Looks the part) even if it makes no difference

Which makes those audiophile fuses so mysterious.
You can actually pay £8000 for something that you can neither hear nor see.

There must be someone with a transparent plug in a visible socket - allowing them to enjoy their purchase (from their bed on the physiciatric ward).