The Apex Club

[Ian986]

Cut the rubber feet to form seperate ones.

What is under your carpet, wood or solid floor?

Thanks for the advice I will cut them up and put on each corner !

Concreate I think certainly not floorboards

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_550686976]

New owner here, with a lot of questions. Let's start with this:

- I own a Pio vsx-s510 receiver. Good enoug for the Apex 5.1 setup? They seem to sound a bit thin (almost too detailed)

- Do I need to set them to large or small in receiver settings? Fronts and rears 4xa10, center a40, sub aw12. Got crossover at 80hz, center at -4db.

I would consider getting a different receiver (still within the return window) but problem is that it can be maximum 36cm deep to fit inside cabinet (add 10cm for bananaplugs and hdmi leads).

 

[michael hoy]

New owner here, with a lot of questions. Let's start with this:

- I own a Pio vsx-s510 receiver. Good enoug for the Apex 5.1 setup? They seem to sound a bit thin (almost too detailed)

- Do I need to set them to large or small in receiver settings? Fronts and rears 4xa10, center a40, sub aw12. Got crossover at 80hz, center at -4db.

Hi and welcome Hans,

Set them to small and 80hz crossover should be fine.

I have a LX85 with the same speakers as yourself and do not have any issues with them.

Use the full auto MCACC to set them up and then go in to the menu and set them to small.

Not sure why they should sound thin, are you sure the sub is kicking in.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_550686976]

The sub does kick in for low stuff yes, but it's mainly dialog which seemed pretty harsh/detailed when I have them set to "small". Not sure if this makes sense though. Any opinion on the receiver? Good enough or am I doing my apex speaker injustice with it?

 

[grdunn123]

I think a receiver upgrade would be worthwhile if you can afford it - something around the £1K pricepoint maybe.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_550686976]

main problem is that a different receiver can be max 35cm deep (more or less). I am using banana plugs with a 4mm speaker cable btw, could lower quality plugs have an influence on the audio quality making the speakers sound thinner than they are?

I have them set as "small" in receiver settings now, with crossover at 80hz. Still find that the fronts (a10) sound pretty thin, lacking almost complete bass. Don't understand why, or is this just me needing to adjust to smaller speakers coming from floorstands?

 

[michael hoy]

Did you re run the MCACC setup again after changing to small, not the full setup.

Go into Manual SP Setup and change the SP settings crossover to 80hz and speakers to small

Now re-run Auto MCACC but select custom, and then select Keep SP settings.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_550686976]

Will try that! I connected the a10's to my Yamaha stereo receiver just to check. Amazing difference in sound, the Apex a10 almost sounded as nice as my Canton Chrono floorstanders! Night and day difference when connected to the Pioneer!

 

[Sliced Bread]

Will try that! I connected the a10's to my Yamaha stereo receiver just to check. Amazing difference in sound, the Apex a10 almost sounded as nice as my Canton Chrono floorstanders! Night and day difference when connected to the Pioneer!

Maybe you'll prefer a Yamaha AV receiver. Yamaha are pretty good at injetting some warmth and scale into a system.

 

[michael hoy]

The Pioneer does have a more forward sound but should not sound thin with the Apex.

Maybe the "better" amplification in my LX85 gives a better sound.

I know some BB for one does not like the Monitor Audio with Pioneer but, I ihave never found the Pioneer to be on the bright side.

 

[Sliced Bread]

It depends what you're after.

ive owned Onkyo, Yamaha and Pioneer. Even the mighty lx87 which I'm using at the moment doesn't have the scale of the Yamaha or Onkyos I used, though it does have many other advantages.such as precision and serious punch.

If the OP is finding the pioneer + apex combination too thin, but the Yamaha stereo amp and Apex as just right then it's probably worth them exploring other Amps.

 

[grdunn123]

I think that your Pioneer receiver lacks some real world power and just doesn't suply the Apex with the 'welly' that they thrive on. When you consider that the Apex set up goes for around £2700 and you're trying to power them up with a receiver costing a few hundred £££, it's not going to be a marriage made in Heaven.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_550686976]

Could be, but isn't a lower power receiver 'inadequate' at high volumes? Or am I wrong that for lower volumes a 200watt vs 100watt receiver should be about the same performance wise? That being said, today I should be getting a Denon AVR-X2100W receiver (http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/product/hometheater/avreceivers/avrx2100w). Ordered this in a shop which allows me to return it within 14 days, will see how that compares to the Pioneer.

I honestly am a bit pissed that when designing our new fireplace with built-in cabinets, I did not calculate the speaker wires/hdmi cables into the cabinet space. As it is now, the cabinet is about 5cm-10cm too short to be able to install a really high-end receiver which is kinda stupid. So I have no other option but to find a receiver which stays within the depth limit (35cm + cables).

 

[Sliced Bread]

in my experience I've noticed improvements even at lower volumes.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_550686976]

Got the Denon setup now, works fine but can't say it's a massive difference compared to the much smaller Pioneer. It does however has a better gui, I suppose a bit more power and nice connections on the back. Too bad arc doesn't work ok with the Pio, kinda leaning towards it due to power usage and because it's so small (D-class amplifier). Not sure if that makes a big difference, but it's very hard to compare them side by side (unplug everything etc).

I also noticed that when playing audio on lower volumes, the subwoofer tends to stay off (it's on a auto on/off setting). Is that normal too? Just trying to learn guys, so put up with me.

The Denon does sound (maybe) a little warmer, but it's not that big a difference and I don't play my speakers at very high volumes, so not sure the Denon is worth keeping. Maybe I need to run-in my speakers a bit more to get them sound a bit more full?

 

[michael hoy]

Hans,

1. Have you set the sub as per the settings in the Monitor Audio manual for the sub?

2. When you ran the auto setup (MCACC) where did you place the microphone, was it at your main listening position and at ear height.

3. Speakers set to small and 80Hz crossover.

Just trying to work through how you set it up.

The speakers do need a bit of time to settle in.

 

[Sliced Bread]

I also noticed that when playing audio on lower volumes, the subwoofer tends to stay off (it's on a auto on/off setting). Is that normal too?

thats definitely not normal I'm afraid.

if you can't notice a big difference it's probably not worth keeping...and the point above sounds like a fault to me.

you miht need to buy an amp with an rep in the 800 plus bracket to start to bring out to life the Apex.m sorry to be the bearer of bad news. ,aye richer sounds or similar have some good offers.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_550686976]

everytime I post it says I am spam?? Any admins here?

Btw, getting used to the Apex but one thing that bothers me a bit is the lack of bass on the a10 and a40 speakers. Reviews rave zbout that. Even setting them to "large" and disabling the sub just to test keeps them sounding hollow,and sharp. Any idea why?

 

[grdunn123]

I think the answer to your question has been discussed already - assuming you don't have a fault somewhere then you need to invest in a better receiver as you're effectively running a near £3K speaker system with a £300 receiver - not a great match... and it's nothing to do with watts per channel, the figures quoted are meaningless.

 

[buzz_lightclick]

Btw, getting used to the Apex but one thing that bothers me a bit is the lack of bass on the a10 and a40 speakers. Reviews rave zbout that. Even setting them to "large" and disabling the sub just to test keeps them sounding hollow,and sharp. Any idea why?

Set them to "small" and enable sub, crossover at 80Hz as you were advised before.

If you want bigger sound you're going to have to pair them with a more powerful and expensive AV receiver.

However they are small speakers so you will not get the same level of bass as you will with full range floor standers like B&W CM10, Monitor Audio GX300, Kef R700 etc.

 

[Sliced Bread]

I think the answer to your question has been discussed already - assuming you don't have a fault somewhere then you need to invest in a better receiver as you're effectively running a near £3K speaker system with a £300 receiver - not a great match... and it's nothing to do with watts per channel, the figures quoted are meaningless.

+ 1

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_550686976]

Thanks for the info. When I setup the receiver (Denon AVR-X2100W) with the Audyssey mic and use the sub, the speakers sound pretty good (a bit too much bass from the sub to my taste but ok). It's just that I was very surprised how hollow and lacking of bass the fronts L+R sound when using the pure mode. It's really like listening to very very cheap sats which lack every sign of bass. A deep bass sounds like someone is hitting a toydrum. I really am surprised this is due to a lower specced receiver (although a lot of press has a lot of praise for the Denon).

Keeping in mind the receiver should not be deeper than 36cm-38cm, which receiver would you guys recommend for the Apex speakers then to get them to perform better in stereo mode without sub?

Btw, I have the speakers connected with (pretty) cheap Banana plugs. They seem sturdy enough though, with 2 screws holding the plug together (they're Nakamichi brand or something). Could a 'cheap' banana plug affect the bass output to the speakers?

 

[Leeps]

Thanks for the info. When I setup the receiver (Denon AVR-X2100W) with the Audyssey mic and use the sub, the speakers sound pretty good (a bit too much bass from the sub to my taste but ok). It's just that I was very surprised how hollow and lacking of bass the fronts L+R sound when using the pure mode. It's really like listening to very very cheap sats which lack every sign of bass. A deep bass sounds like someone is hitting a toydrum. I really am surprised this is due to a lower specced receiver (although a lot of press has a lot of praise for the Denon).

Keeping in mind the receiver should not be deeper than 36cm-38cm, which receiver would you guys recommend for the Apex speakers then to get them to perform better in stereo mode without sub?

Btw, I have the speakers connected with (pretty) cheap Banana plugs. They seem sturdy enough though, with 2 screws holding the plug together (they're Nakamichi brand or something). Could a 'cheap' banana plug affect the bass output to the speakers?

Although the Apex system is a very high quality package, it is designed to be used as a sub/satellite system. So by engaging Pure Direct in stereo mode is a bit like getting a pair of floorstanders and only wiring up the tweeters and expecting it to sound good.

You need to engage the subwoofer to experience the full frequency range that the system is capable of. There are a number of ways to do this and each AV receiver manufacturer tends to have different names for it.

If you're playing 2.0 channel music through your system, I would look for an option that brings all your speakers into play but weight the fader about half way toward the front. My Pioneer AVR calls this Extended Stereo, but your Denon ought to have an equivalent. At the very least you need to look for a setting that engages the subwoofer - perhaps in a 2.1 mode which would use your front left and right satellites and the sub.

Having a system that's designed as a sub/sat package and not using the sub is not a fair test of the speakers. I would imagine that the only small speakers that would make a decent bash at stereo without the sub are Neat Iotas, but they have been designed from scratch to be used as full range units in their own right. If you'd purchased conventional size speakers, they would have been designed to play on their own too. Also bear in mind that using a budget AV receiver to play in stereo mode is not playing to the system's strengths.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_550686976]

Thanks, that clears it up a little. Coming from floorstanders, I of course understand the sub is there for a reason with satellites. It's just strange that I've read reviews raving about the bass performance of the A10 and A40, even read somewhere that a sub is not exactly needed. That's why I was so stunned when only playing from the A10's I noticed an almost complete absense of bass. So I began thinking it's the banana plugs, or the receiver is not up to scratch (sold the Pio, bought the Denon). And to be honest, I'm mostly using this system for tv/movies, so I'm not quite sure a 2000 euro receiver is really needed for my use.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_550686976]

I have another question btw : when I set the powermode for the AW12 to "auto", the subwoofer seems very rarely switch on when needed. I have crossover set at 80hz so I suppose the sub should get a signal even when viewing normal tv or listening to some pop music. But it does not. When I put it on manually, the sub receives the LFE signals just fine, even at low levels.

Any idea why the sub isn't powering on in "auto" mode? I need to add that when I set the volume of the receiver to +60, the sub DOES become active. So there's definitely a signal coming in, it just seems this does not work with (too) low volumes. When I then turn down the volume, the sub turns off after a while. The receiver definitely shows sending LFE channels.