The Apex Club

[ellisdj]

Its corner placement that generally causes the issues - a sub like a monolith doesnt need corner placement / room reinforcement to do deep bass.
It does flat to 20hz in free air - awesome thing

 

[fayeanddavid]

Its corner placement that generally causes the issues - a sub like a monolith doesnt need corner placement / room reinforcement to do deep bass. It does flat to 20hz in free air - awesome thing

I would recommend the AntiMode room correction unit unles you have Audyssey XT32 (is it) or Anthem ARC to room eq the sub

Very please with ours, may look in the future and aMK or KK unit, but the BK does a fantastic job, especially at the price point.

Fully agree also that the XLSS400 or the Monolith would do the job, just a preference between sealed (more "musical") or ported (greater depth and grunt)

Oh, decisions, decisions!!

 

[tris101]

The BK do seam to get good reviews. its a shame they don't do a Lab 12 Eminence 12" Sub Woofer with the BSBPV 500 500W Active Sub Bass Panel amp in a box a sealed box a little bigger than the XXLS-400.

Is there any way to get a demo of the BK subs?

 

[fayeanddavid]

The BK do seam to get good reviews. its a shame they don't do a Lab 12 Eminence 12" Sub Woofer with the BSBPV 500 500W Active Sub Bass Panel amp in a box a sealed box a little bigger than the XXLS-400. Is there any way to get a demo of the BK subs?

Their Monolith+ has the better Lab 12 and a 500w amp, but a ported design though

Strictly mail order unless you are close enought o pop in to them, located in Southend IIRC.

 

[tris101]

I fancy a the Monolith+ lab12 speaker and amp in a XXLS-400 encloser. I guess I could always make my own...

 

[ellisdj]

Making your own is a great way to go, but getting the same frequency response from the driver in that small box is most likely not possible - hence the use of such a big box.

If you wan the XLS400 sized package - consider that sub - that still uses a Peerless XXLS12 which is highly regarded and costs roughly the same to buy as a Lab 12

 

[tris101]

Yes I would model the box size with software as the driver specs are different, the bk monolith box is larger at 95L mainly due to the ported configuration. I would think a 70-75L sealed box would be close as a guess without doing the calcs.

Recommended Enclosure Volume for the LAB12

Sealed 28.32-118.93 liters

Vented 39.64-141.59 liters

But speaking to BK they commented "If you looking for a musical subwoofer then the XXLS400 is the best option as this uses a Peerless XXLS12 drive unit. This is designed for music in mind and is far more musical that the Lab 12"

So maybe their off shelf BK XLS400 is the way to go and save some money.

How does the BK XLS400 compare to the Aw12, Monitor Audio RXW12.

I have upto £1k to spend and the BK XLS400 is about half my budget which sounds great, I’m just checking if other options will give me greater performance with both movies and music?

 

[tris101]

double post

 

[djolord]

Guys - I've had mine for nearly a month now. But I must say I'm slightly underwhelmed. The biggest issue is sibilence. I'm running them on a Pioneer sc-lx72 and seriously wondering about changing the receiver.... I think the pioneer might just be too bright. I've never been bowled over by the Pioneers sound either, always been quite thin sounding to my ears. Im considering the Arcam AVR400. Any thoughts? Maybe I ought to just run them in more.....

 

[buzz_lightclick]

You can't really get better than the Pioneer for movies - well maybe a newer model than the one you have, and consider the 8X range above, but the Arcam will probably be better with music. Yamaha are also meant to combine well with the Apex. Best thing you can do is demo as everyone's tastes are different.

 

[michael hoy]

How much setting up have you done with the Pioneer?

If you have just run the MCACC and left it at that, you are not getting the best out of the amp.

I had the 72 and now the 85 and no issues for me with sibilence, you can use the X curve feature to reduce the high frequency.

 

[ric71]

Anthem 8)

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi djolord

As had been mentioned also try amplification from Yamaha and Anthem. We use both makes and find that Apex pair superbly with them :rockout:

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[RickyDeg]

NuForce 8)

 

[gosalh]

Hi Guys,

I recently replaced my Denon AVR-A100 with the Onkyo TX-NR5010. Havent had a chance to play around with it. Did my homework first and I had a few demos including using a loaned system from the store which i tested at home with my Apex.

I literally set up my purchased system last Sunday and I ran a demo using some Blurays and so far it sounds very impressive and i noticed a significant improvement over my old already impressive Denon. Using DTS Neo X for my heights, although i couldnt tell the difference from Dolby's Pllz. But again i need to play with the endless number of settings and config.

Will keep you posted once i have it setup properly plus will post pics soon.

 

[RickyDeg]

Excellent gosalh

I think you'll find it's more powerful and aggressive (in the good way) compared to the somewhat smoother more "laid-back" Denon. That was my experience testing both the TX-NR5009 and 5010, as you might remember. Sadly I didn't get along with the Onkyo in other terms, but hopefully you will.

Let is know how you get on with this! Exciting!

 

[MUSICRAFT]

NuForce 8)

Hi RickyDeg

There's another new force in town - Yamaha's CX-A5000 AV processor :star: I hope you'll try one out

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[RickyDeg]

NuForce 8)

Hi RickyDeg

There's another new force in town - Yamaha's CX-A5000 AV processor :star: I hope you'll try one out

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Hya Rick!

I'm glad Yamaha released a processor. Long time coming. Not that I'd mind trying it out but it's WAY to big and clunky for me to even room in my cabinet for testing lol :O Especially now that I have a power amplifier in there as well. I assume you are in love with it???

 

[djolord]

Well I've more time for playing this week and these are my latest findings:

I tried moving the Apex L/R further forward as I think the close proximity of the ATC speakers was interfering with the top end a fair bit -making it sound a bit 'boxy'. This did help a bit. I then tried using the pre-outs of the Pioneer into my Rotel stereo amp. All I can say is wow! What a difference. So much better, mostly more muscle, power and less sibilence! I think the power amps of the Pioneer are just so clinical and 'digital' sounding, just doesn't right to my ears.The Rotel just makes them more natural sounding.

Michael: I have tried running the MCACC and tbh I just think the results are always nonsense, just produces wacky eq curves. I only use it for distances. I tried using the x-curve but it just sucks the life out of the sound and still doesnt really reduce the sibilence. The funny thing is I was always happy with the B&W 600 series and Pioneer combination. But I think the Apex's are such a better quality speaker they just show the shortcomings of the Pioneer.

I can't keep this setup though as the Rotal is for my ATC's and any switching device will just degrade the sound too much so I've got a demo organised in a few days time for the latest Arcam receivers. I will let you what I think.

 

[RickyDeg]

Well I've more time for playing this week and these are my latest findings:

I tried moving the Apex L/R further forward as I think the close proximity of the ATC speakers was interfering with the top end a fair bit -making it sound a bit 'boxy'. This did help a bit. I then tried using the pre-outs of the Pioneer into my Rotel stereo amp. All I can say is wow! What a difference. So much better, mostly more muscle, power and less sibilence! I think the power amps of the Pioneer are just so clinical and 'digital' sounding, just doesn't right to my ears.The Rotel just makes them more natural sounding.

Michael: I have tried running the MCACC and tbh I just think the results are always nonsense, just produces wacky eq curves. I only use it for distances. I tried using the x-curve but it just sucks the life out of the sound and still doesnt really reduce the sibilence. The funny thing is I was always happy with the B&W 600 series and Pioneer combination. But I think the Apex's are such a better quality speaker they just show the shortcomings of the Pioneer.

I can't keep this setup though as the Rotal is for my ATC's and any switching device will just degrade the sound too much so I've got a demo organised in a few days time for the latest Arcam receivers. I will let you what I think.

Those were (unfortunately) the exact same experiences I had when I tested the SC-LX83 and 85.

Best of luck with the Arcams!

 

[ellisdj]

Just come back from a day at my cousins who has an lX83 and apex. Setup good its an excellent combination and am i am very fussy.

But like everything you need to have it setup right and that takes a lot of knowledge, time and other tech such as bass management. If you heard this system you would be very surprised most people don't know what their doing and day the combo doesnt work - their very very very wrong

 

[michael hoy]

Just come back from a day at my cousins who has an lX83 and apex. Setup good its an excellent combination and am i am very fussy.

But like everything you need to have it setup right and that takes a lot of knowledge, time and other tech such as bass management. If you heard this system you would be very surprised most people don't know what their doing and day the combo doesnt work - their very very very wrong

That it why I said previously, you need to tweak the MCACC settings.

This really is the same for all auto setup systems, they are a guide and not the ultimate configuration.

 

[RickyDeg]

So in other words the Pioneers basically 'demand' manual EQ knowledge, which without knowing exactly what you are doing can cause more harm than good. I figure it's a great option for those who are well edjucated on this stuff, or can have it tailored by an expert/dealer, but for the rest of us it's a bit of a gamble. Then again, so are a lot of electronics. As I have moved away from any type of EQ whatsoever nowadays I'm relieved I don't have to "reply" on equalizing trickery, as a guide or otherwise. My home theater is singing as never before... the transparency is impeccable with the NuForce using no EQ whatsoever. I never experienced the same with YPAO, MCACC, ARC or Audyssey. As you probably know I loved the latter system, but it was never this transparent or musical. I have no doubts the Pioneers and MCACC is an ideal solution for some, it was just never for me. I'm glad I gave them a shot though. Perhaps not a fair shot since I did no manual EQ tweaking. It's about more than just the EQ though, of course. The amp sections were a bit stale and clinical to my personal taste, the opposite of what I got from Denon, Onkyo and NuForce. It's just a matter of preference.

 

[ellisdj]

My cousin uses mccac to set levels and distances. He then turns off all eq, full band phase and the other one.

He then set the sub distance using a DVD which plays ticks out your mains and sub- you adjust the distance on the sub until the clicks are in time.

that gets the sub phase correct which is vital!!

he has a behringer feedback destroyer - he measured his sub response using REW - then used REW to create filters to a hard knee house curve, these are entered into the behringer.

that coupled with the front L and R being put in the right location and some home made room acoustic treatment.

he pays attention to important aspects - cabling, mains etc - that results in an awesome sound, one that would blow 99% people away who don't have their systems setup properly

 

[djolord]

I vividly remember your experiences Ricky and can now relate to them! Before I had the Apex's I wasn't sure what you were talking about. But the Apex's are such a revealing speaker. I first learnt about the Pioneers shortcomings when I had the ATCs running off it, so I KNOW it's not just the Apex's being too bright.