The Apex Club

[hubiedubie]

I'd just like to add that you will likely continue to hear improvements from these speakers as there is no way you managed to break them in just over the weekend.

Thanks RickyDeg. What improvements should I expect to hear over the break-in period? I notice that they've opened up a great deal since Friday. What else should happen?

I'll post some photos tonight.

 

[RickyDeg]

Hi All

Please can some help as I'm looking to invest in compact surround package, before I started my research into what is the best compact lifestyle speaker package. Bose V35 was on top of my list, but after a lot reading on different forums I have no idea which route take. Please help.

List of speaker packages I was looking into.

focal dome 5.1

Paradigham Millenia range.

Monitor Audio Apex 5.1

All parted with a onkyo 609.

Bose v35 lifestyle pack.

I've heard the Focal Dome 5.1 on numerous occations and I truly liked that package. Especially for their size and the design they are a true gem of a speakerpackage. However, performance-wise Apex kills em. No doubts. I did not do a direct comparison as my listeningsessions were a few weeks apart and in different rooms, but I did use the same material (favorite movies and music). A close friend of mine now has these in his livingroom and though they certainly sound good they are still not as impressive as the Apex. I actually opted for the Domes for quite a while before settling for the Apex. You will get a more viceral and engrossing listeningexperience with Apex, and an even more musical sound aswell. They can be more or a challenge to install nicely (and as discreetly) when comparing to the Domes, but I dont regret my choice.

The Paradigm I have heard many good things about, but have sadly not listened to. I did read a comparison test in a magazine from Norway where they also compare with Apex, Bose etc....... you really need to check this one out! (Google translation link below)

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lydogbilde.no%2Ftest%2Fdesign-surroundhoyttalere-okt-2011

 

[RickyDeg]

I'd just like to add that you will likely continue to hear improvements from these speakers as there is no way you managed to break them in just over the weekend.

Thanks RickyDeg. What improvements should I expect to hear over the break-in period? I notice that they've opened up a great deal since Friday. What else should happen?

I'll post some photos tonight.

I asked the very same thing during the first few weeks and months after I first got my Apex-system, and people (on this board) kept saying things like "just wait until they are fully broken-in" or "its nice to own a product that keeps on getting better" and I have to say they were all right. My set I thought sounded impressive from the get-go, apart from the AW-12 subwoofer which was, quite frankly, underwhelming at first. It was thubby and uncontrolled and not very impressive at all. It took well over 100 hours of break-in before it even started to sound like a subwoofer. Then as time moved on it kept on impressing me more and more. Now (I've had the system for 7 months) it's brilliant and possibly one of the better subwoofers in its class. In terms of the satellite speakers A10 and A40 I found that they simply mellowed into their soundcharacter more and more and slowly became more musical and refined in the mid-range and treble. Also, the soundstage seemed to open up even further, in depth and width, which was really nice. Now I have that alluringly multi-layered and engrossingly realistic sound I've always wanted from a compact system! Its perhaps not a night-and-day difference "before-and-after" break-in, but most certainly noticable. But because it happens gradually over time it can be difficult to pick out for some people, but I dare almost promise you that you'll grow to like what they accomplish over time! Especially since you like them already!

 

[Anonymous]

I'm using 3 x A40 at the front with A10 rears (and BK XLS200 sub) and it sounds fantastic. Movies are excellent.

 

[Julian_b]

Thanks RickyDeg - It sure was fun on the weekend too! It was a lot simpler to get going than I thought it would be. Out of the box the Yamaha RX 3067 was very easy to set up and connect to my Apex 5.1 speakers, Oppo 83 Blu Ray and Panasonic 46" Plasma TV.

I used the YPAO Mic set up which was straight forward, chose the Pattern option for all small speakers, set crossover at 80 Hz and then tried the Thor Blu Ray as the sound was pretty impressive with my old Cambridge 650 Azur. Wow! what a change the sound stage was terrificly open and more detailed - quite forward too with Apex speakers, but in a way I really liked. I found there was even better synchronisation and cohesion between the subwoofer and the speakers (which I thought was already a strength before). Bass was also tighter with great control as the volume was increased. I used the 'Straight' Movie setting first and then the 'Sci-Fi' DSP setting. They were both exciting with the latter seemingly throwing more to the surround speakers to good effect.

Then I turned to CD to see how the 3067 changed things - boy do those Apex's sing with it - Adele 21 was just beautiful in 'Stereo' - Pure Direct didn't work for me as excludes the sub and as cute as 2 X A10's are ...they are not enough. So in stereo mode the sub kicks in and again the seemless integration can enjoyed. You can tell how great the Apex speakers and Yamaha amp work together as pushing up the volume creates no stress at all - just great full clear sound (until my wife came back home and mentioned she could hear down the street - lucky neighbours :rockout:

I dowloaded the Yamaha AVR App too that was released in December and it found my i-tunes library in a flash and just by hitting the 'music icon' I was streaming over my wifi, then by switching on the 'enhance' function it helps decompress the music file - not as open as the CD but very very good all the same. I then got quite carried away going through various music genres and trying the DSP modes with them to see how that sounded through the Apex's. Just added to the fun and listening pleasure - Andreas Bocelli's using 'Opera/Recital' or Bruce Springstein through 'The Roxy'. 'Straight' was still best though.

I went back to Blu Ray and experimented with the speaker levels (a tip from the retailer who sold me the Apex's). Upped the Centre and Presence speakers +1.0 db and +1.5 db respectively. The former was based on the principal that room correction tended to equalise the Centre and L plus R too much. The latter that you would get a more enveloping sound especially as would be compensating for signal drop over greater cable distance too. I deceded to try out his theory with 'Burlesque' which was a particular movie that had shown up significant weakness with my previous set up - always felt the sound lacked composure and therefore volume push meant sound went pear-shaped. Well not now - the delivery of music was fantastic and the adjustments made meant vocals were pushed a bit more through the A40 (which is beautiful to hear and centralises singer and voice nicely). The extra +1.5 db to the presence speakers really makes you feel you are more in the 'cabaret club' environment with the sound enveloping you.

So a great weekend to start off with and more playing/learning to do with settings to get even more out of the Apex's from this fantastic Amp (and at half price too :rofl:I still have to work out how to get the audio return, internet radio and other features going but the important aspects are at least up and running. If anyone has any ideas or experiences with how to get the Yamaha RX 3067 getting the Apex's to sing even more I'd love to hear.......

 

[RickyDeg]

Big THANKS Julian_B for taking the time and sharing your impressions with us. Great read.

First off I'd just like to know how you managed to utilize the "front presence" feature of your Yamaha with only a 5.1 set-up (did you use your old speakers - or did I miss something? sorry hehe). I've heard this DSP feature a few times, and never been very impressed as it's given me the impression of an artificial soundcharacter, but nowadays it might be different. I have only heard Dolby and Audysseys competing front channel modes and they are both nice though. For music - you mentioned trying some DSP modes, but how about 5-channel stereo? This is usually great on Yamaha receivers if you really wanna fill the room with stereo music.

I hope to test the new RX-A3010 sometime. Possibly.

Continue to :rockout: and enjoy!

 

[gosalh]

I advocate whatever Ricky says, the Apex system is amazing and when the speakers are run in, they sound awesome!! Beautiful build quality, you cant knock them. Monitor Audio have done a fine job as always. And Im still finding improvements today and i've had them for a year. Looks like alot of people out there are buying these speakers. My cousin just put an order in for these speakers, along with the stands, Denon 4311 and Oppo 95.

Have fun with them!

 

[hubiedubie]

For music - you mentioned trying some DSP modes, but how about 5-channel stereo? This is usually great on Yamaha receivers if you really wanna fill the room with stereo music.

I was surprised at how good the 9-channel stereo sounds on the Yamaha. Normally I find this mode a little unnatural sounding but in this case I thought it a genuine improvement on the standard 2Ch stereo signal. Not quite sure why as I had assumed the algorithm was the same in all receivers (duplicate the source for rears and sum to mono for centre). However it sounds like a hyper 3 dimensional stereo image in the Yamaha. I wonder are they doing some additional processing here?

I like the 'Movie Standard' DSP mode. However the music ones are pretty dire IMO. A properly recorded classical piece should have the ambience recorded correctly. Also the reverb DSP is extremely digital sounding.

 

[Julian_b]

yep - the surrounds (rather than presence which wouldn't achieve much :rofl

Will try the 5-channel on the weekend and compare to the straight stereo DSP. Will be interested to hear your thoughts on the 3010 but doubt you'll find it a big enough step up given your current set up.

 

[Julian_b]

yep - the surrounds (rather than presence which wouldn't achieve much :rofl

Will try the 5-channel on the weekend and compare to the straight stereo DSP. Will be interested to hear your thoughts on the 3010 but doubt you'll find it a big enough step up given your current set up.

 

[RickyDeg]

For music - you mentioned trying some DSP modes, but how about 5-channel stereo? This is usually great on Yamaha receivers if you really wanna fill the room with stereo music.

I was surprised at how good the 9-channel stereo sounds on the Yamaha. Normally I find this mode a little unnatural sounding but in this case I thought it a genuine improvement on the standard 2Ch stereo signal. Not quite sure why as I had assumed the algorithm was the same in all receivers (duplicate the source for rears and sum to mono for centre). However it sounds like a hyper 3 dimensional stereo image in the Yamaha. I wonder are they doing some additional processing here?

I like the 'Movie Standard' DSP mode. However the music ones are pretty dire IMO. A properly recorded classical piece should have the ambience recorded correctly. Also the reverb DSP is extremely digital sounding.

Interesting! My Yamaha receivers of the past also performed admirably in their multi-channel stereo mode. I know its a bit "controversial" from a purist standpoint to listen to music that way, but ever since I went from full-register floorstanding speakers to more compact models trying to fill the room with music just can't seem to be done in plain old 2-channel stereo reproduction (as good as the Apex may be). This is why multi-channel stereo mode is perfect.

But yes, they do differ from brand to brand and model to model, this much I know for sure. Just as an example: last year I tested Pioneer SC-LX83, Anthem MRX700 and Primare SPA22, all of whom employ such modes. Each identical algorithm sounded different from the other (including my current Denon). I think their processing is simply what causes this, they all tend to do it differently.

I often need to tweak the multi-channel stereo mode to get it to sound 'right' in my room but after that I have never been able to go back to 2-channel, regardless of receiver. There's just no way. It might be different if I went back to full-register floorstanders. Cant imagine that now though, since the Apex are so brilliant overall. But imo these do need to play together in unison, to really impress.

 

[ric71]

Hi Ricky and also to the latest Apex owners.

I have only ever listened to music in multi channel be it DTS or mainly pro logic2 music,before that Lexicon Logic 7 which was amazing. Never liked stereo so thats why I got the Apex!

Enjoy

ric

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you for the reply Ricky.

Would anybody know where I could get a demo of the Apex 5.1 near Milton Keynes.

Thanks.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Have spent most of the weekend listening to the Apex as they break in and the experience has been very positive. Tried all sorts of music and lot's of movies too. Have partnered them with the Yamaha RX-A2010 which provides an incredibly musical combination. My previous experiences with style speaker systems were the B&W MT30s, the FPM4s and the B&W XT4s, all in conjunction with an Arcam AVR350.
The Apex / Yamaha combination comfortably outperforms all systems by a country mile for music and film.

How do they stack up against 'proper' speakers? Hard to say really. My last set of speakers was the B&W 803Ds which were obviously far superior. The biggest thing i notice is that the soundstage depth isn't nearly has holographic (in stereo). However this could be because I've been forced to place the 2 A40s on either side of my screen which is a little close together for optimal stereo listening. Also the midrange is a small bit recessed in comparison to some floorstanders I've heard.

So all in all, I'm a very happy camper. These speakers seem to comfortably outperform other speakers in their category. They also punch well above their weight in terms of price. Traditionally shaped speakers will better them in some areas in stereo but I think the gap is small.

First off, thank you for sharing your initial findings hubiedubie, it's great to know you've had positive experiences so far. Also the shortcomings in your comparison-comments are interesting aswell. I'd just like to add that you will likely continue to hear improvements from these speakers as there is no way you managed to break them in just over the weekend. I look forward to perhaps testing my own set with a Yamaha RX-A3010 sometime. I have however a big love for Audyssey right now. 3 x A40's in the front must be killer. I planned on that myself at first, but for several reasons I had to scrap that idea. Would love to see a photo of your set-up if you care to share it.

Hi RickyDeg

I've find the Aventage RX-A3010 and Apex to be an excellent combination I've found Apex sub/sat speakers take several hundred hundred hours of actual use before they are fully on song :rockout:

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Big THANKS Julian_B for taking the time and sharing your impressions with us. Great read.

First off I'd just like to know how you managed to utilize the "front presence" feature of your Yamaha with only a 5.1 set-up (did you use your old speakers - or did I miss something? sorry hehe). I've heard this DSP feature a few times, and never been very impressed as it's given me the impression of an artificial soundcharacter, but nowadays it might be different. I have only heard Dolby and Audysseys competing front channel modes and they are both nice though. For music - you mentioned trying some DSP modes, but how about 5-channel stereo? This is usually great on Yamaha receivers if you really wanna fill the room with stereo music.

I hope to test the new RX-A3010 sometime. Possibly.

Continue to :rockout: and enjoy!

Hi RickyDeg

I find Yamaha's Cinema DSP to work superbly with music or movie soundtracks which are presented in multi channel. Although Cinema DSP parameters have to be set effectively in accordance with the speakers, the size of the room (sometimes i've find the various levels set are on the low side and in most instances the levels are set too high - hence with the latter the presentation can end up having an artifical character) and the appropiate DSP mode chosen for a given soundtrack.

With a 5.1 or 7.1 configuration i would say Cinema DSP used in the Aventage RX-A3010 is the finest i've heard yet from a Yamaha AV amplifier/receiver. The RX-A3010 (with Cinema DSP engaged) when used with Apex speakers (with their low colouration) reproduce a fast, powerful, rich, clear and coherent soundfield which i find to be very involving.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Ian986]

Hi all I might be joining the apex club soon, and I was wondering if you guys that own them,can answer a few questions for me

Can the centre speaker be wall mounted? and if so how far does it stick out from the rear ie how much space from back of speaker to the wall? I ask this as I have some self brackets I need to clear,And what is rough size of the wall bracket?

Has anyone paired apex with the Onkyo 809? as when I went to hifi shop they reckoned that the apex was too bright and that I should get the Dali Fazon LCR instead.

Thanks

 

[RickyDeg]

Alright, Rick - thanks for that input. Interesting!

I have to admit I long to test drive the RX-A3010. Although, as I've said numerous times before, I seem to be "addicted" to Audyssey and fear another let-down. But time will tell when I get my hands on a sample! Will be interesting to hear how well it matches with Apex, especially since you are not the only advocate for this combination.

 

[RickyDeg]

I'm just throwing this out there because I've wondered about this ever since I got my Apex-system.

Have any other owners looked in the user manual of the subwoofer AW12? On page 6 (see below) it deals with cut-off frequency control and lists a number of examples of Monitor Audio speakers - among these we find a model called AX50 (presumably an Apex model above A40, or AX40 if you will). However, this model does not exist in the Apex-range, and I've yet to hear any info on this model. I wonder how it would differ from the A10 and A40? Any insider news, possibly?

http://i43.tinypic.com/23urgp4.png

 

[Ian986]

Hi all I am thinking of joining the apex club and I was wondering if anyone could answer a few question for me

Can the centre speaker be mounted on the wall? And if so how far does the back of the speaker come out from the wall? The reason I ask this I have a shelf brack that the speaker needs to clear?

I went to demo some Dali Fazon LCR and they had the apex there too but the guy in the shop said that the apex would not match the Onkyo TXNR 809 very well is anyone running the apex with the 809

Thanks in advance for your advice

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi all I am thinking of joining the apex club and I was wondering if anyone could answer a few question for me

Can the centre speaker be mounted on the wall? And if so how far does the back of the speaker come out from the wall? The reason I ask this I have a shelf brack that the speaker needs to clear?

I went to demo some Dali Fazon LCR and they had the apex there too but the guy in the shop said that the apex would not match the Onkyo TXNR 809 very well is anyone running the apex with the 809

Thanks in advance for your advice

Hi Ian986

Yes, Apex A40 can be wall mounted. I'll get the details for you as soon as i've got a hold of the wall bracket.

Btw, the TX-NR809 works perfectly well with Apex speakers Are you also looking at getting a TX-NR809?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Ian986]

Thanks for the info Rick Does that mean that it does not come with the centre speaker then?

The amp is a long story but I bought a Onkyo 609 and did not sound as good as my denon 1910 it replaced so exchanged it for a 809 which is yet to arrive.

I wonder if you would be good enough to answer another question, about the aw12 this looks like a big sub and and is being used in a small room would it be to much?

 

[michael hoy]

Thanks for the info Rick Does that mean that it does not come with the centre speaker then?

The amp is a long story but I bought a Onkyo 609 and did not sound as good as my denon 1910 it replaced so exchanged it for a 809 which is yet to arrive.

I wonder if you would be good enough to answer another question, about the aw12 this looks like a big sub and and is being used in a small room would it be to much?

Hi,

The bracket does come with the centre speaker, it also allows some adjustment to angle the speaker.

The sub should not be an issue if it is set up correctly, it should be about quality and not just boom.

 

[Ian986]

Thank you for the info looks like I might be getting myself some of these Soon if I can get them to fit in the gaps I have! I got my Onkyo 809 set up tonight it is a different class to 609 I have a slight noise on one of surrounds so hope it is a loose connection and not a problem with amp

 

[Anonymous]

Hi all,

After months of saving, I'm finally able to buy my first apex speakers. I'm going for 2x A40 for left and right to start with.

Only problem is, the only place I could find to get a demo is only able to show me the standard set up with A10's all round and 1 A40 in the center.

Could anyone who has gone this route tell me if this will be a fair representation of sound?

I will also be upgrading my receiver. I currently have a pioneer ax2av. I have been looking at the new LX75 but there are other receiver in that price range. Yamaha 2010 and with a current deal on, the Arcam avr400.

Again, anyone able to comment on a 'best of those'?

Although I can demo the 2010 and avr400, my local dealer holds no stock of pioneer.

Thanks

Super excited! =)

 

[ric71]

If you like the sound of the A10/A40 set up you will like the A40's. It will sound very similar slightly fuller.

Re receiver it depends what you are looking for. If you listen to a lot of music then I would suggest the ARCAM.

I have never heard the Yamaha/Apex combo but from all I have read it is awesome.