The Apex Club

[RickyDeg]

Great post Ricky! I remember seeing Primare at an electronics fair but never heard it play. My bf is about to get us a new Denon aswell (we have an older Sony) hope it will deliver the same as yours does with Apex I'm just starting to learn more about receivers but the Primare must have looked nice atleast! Your set up is pretty btw! We watched some live concerts last night and I cant wait to hear how Apex sound with something else in charge. My favorite aspect is still the sub!

Thanks ANLI for taking the time to read my post! I know you love your sub, and I remember how good it looked in your livingroom from the pics on avsforum! Good luck with your Denon (which model?). Hope it brings a new level of performance to your Apex!

 

[RickyDeg]

Thank you Ricky for the insightful and detailed review. It's obvious that you start with no preconceptions, and just assess what you hear...great job. From my on perspective, I generally don't get on with Class D, and I suspect processing is not where Primare's strength lies. For my taste, the AVR600 is still the one to beat on 2 channel, and not far behind the best on processing. IMO The faults have now been brought to an acceptable level, but they still do exist. Cno

Thank you CnoEvil for taking the time to read my post and the kind kudos! Its been an interesting, if somewhat frustrating, journey going through all these units. But also very informative and another level of proof that receivers and amps do indeed differ quite alot from eachother, while certain aspects remain the same. The whole point ofcourse is to hear how they handle the fine Apex speakers. Primare's Class-D amplifiers are apparenyly a different breed to what we might be use to from that kind of technology (it worked well with music on Apex!) but then its processing might have been the "lowpoint" here?

Arcam AVR600 have a nice reputation aswell, only downside for me personally is that it does not emply Audyssey or any multi-stereo listening mode that I often crave when music needs to fill the entire room. I wont rule out testing it though. Pity about the on-going bugs! Apex deserve better than a control-center with bugs and glitches! My AVR-3808 have never once had any irritating flaws (on its 3rd year now) and it drives Apex effortlessly.

 

[MMW]

Last night I watched "Das Boot" in Bluray and...what an experience!! One of the very strong point of the Apex system it´s the totally involving, ultradetailed and ultrarealistic soundfield they can cast and with this movie sometimes I closed my eyes and really felt inside the submarine! It was spooky around chapter 5 when the submarine goes in silent running and the destroyer pass above the submarine I heard the sound of the destroyer´s engines passing above me and across the ceiling of my listening room!! Spooky! :O :O :O

 

[ric71]

Good review Ricky.
Well you have hit the nail on the head. At least you know what it is you love about the Denon. I had a Denon 3310 and I am a great believer in EQ. I personally didn't like Dynamic EQ but each to their own.
Don't waste your time trying an ARCAM because it will not give you what you want.
Seriously consider giving the Denon A -100 a go. The amps in it are fantastic and it has x32 Audyssey which is superb.
I love my AVR 500 but don't bother with its own room EQ as its rather pathetic and inaccurate.
I'm gonna upgrade my speaker cables next to something exotic I think. Any ideas?
Sub no 2 going to have to wait till next year.

 

[gosalh]

Hi ric and ricky,

Nice review ricky!

Guys seriously go with an amp which has audyssey xt32 like the a100 or 4311. I noticed a difference moving from xt to xt32. I like dynamic eq and multeq xt32, makes a big difference to my listening experience, especially manages the eq of the subwoofer much better making it much tighter and cleaner. Overall when compairing to multeq xt, the vocals and general audio sound silky smooth and cleaner than before. I also logged lots of support tickets with audyssey to get advice on how to tweak xt32 to get the best out of it, and they were very helpful.

Ive ordered a new rack for my setup, ordered the Blok stax 400. Hopefully get it tomorrow, so i'll post up my photos soon.

 

[RickyDeg]

Last night I watched "Das Boot" in Bluray and...what an experience!! One of the very strong point of the Apex system it´s the totally involving, ultradetailed and ultrarealistic soundfield they can cast and with this movie sometimes I closed my eyes and really felt inside the submarine! It was spooky around chapter 5 when the submarine goes in silent running and the destroyer pass above the submarine I heard the sound of the destroyer´s engines passing above me and across the ceiling of my listening room!! Spooky! :O :O :O

Good post! Excellent film! :clap:

Got this Blu-ray myself last week. Cant wait to disconnect the Primare tonight and back in with the Denon to fire up this flick and enjoy the Apex like they're meant to be enjoyed! lol

 

[RickyDeg]

Good review Ricky. Well you have hit the nail on the head. At least you know what it is you love about the Denon. I had a Denon 3310 and I am a great believer in EQ. I personally didn't like Dynamic EQ but each to their own. Don't waste your time trying an ARCAM because it will not give you what you want. Seriously consider giving the Denon A -100 a go. The amps in it are fantastic and it has x32 Audyssey which is superb. I love my AVR 500 but don't bother with its own room EQ as its rather pathetic and inaccurate. I'm gonna upgrade my speaker cables next to something exotic I think. Any ideas? Sub no 2 going to have to wait till next year.

Thanks for reading it ric71! Its good knowing what we love, aint it? Sometimes it just takes a while getting there. You might be correct about the Arcam not pleasing me. Will likely be another Denon, though I wouldnt say no to testing an Arcam. Hmm, speaker cables - dont get me started on that one! HA! There are definitely fine samples out there, but I've found my ideal match in Supra *no nonsense* cables. Let us know what you pick!

 

[RickyDeg]

Hi ric and ricky,

Nice review ricky!

Guys seriously go with an amp which has audyssey xt32 like the a100 or 4311. I noticed a difference moving from xt to xt32. I like dynamic eq and multeq xt32, makes a big difference to my listening experience, especially manages the eq of the subwoofer much better making it much tighter and cleaner. Overall when compairing to multeq xt, the vocals and general audio sound silky smooth and cleaner than before. I also logged lots of support tickets with audyssey to get advice on how to tweak xt32 to get the best out of it, and they were very helpful.

Ive ordered a new rack for my setup, ordered the Blok stax 400. Hopefully get it tomorrow, so i'll post up my photos soon.

Kinda wish I'd listened to you earlier, gosalh lol. Dont regret going through all these units, its been interesting. Besides, if I didnt add these reviews what would you guys have to read on here? j/k Sadly the A-100 is no longer selling in my area, though I did get an offer I passed on about 6 months ago. Sigh. Anyway, the 4311 looks good too! And you are correct - the latest Audyssey is bound to add to my already pleasing experience! I must agree with you about the help from Audyssey as I have gotten some of that aswell. They are very good.

Cant wait to see your set-up with Apex! Esp your new rack! It looks like a beautiful piece!

BTW, did you read my reply on suggestions to fine-tune your system?

 

[gosalh]

Hey ricky

Yeah i saw your message about the antimode unit. I think i'll stick with the xt32 sub eq management, the subwoofer sounds much better than when i didnt have xt32. Antimode is a good piece of kit though.

If you can get hold of a 4311 that should do the trick. Its the same as the a100. There are some a100s around but theyve gone up in price to £2500

 

[MMW]

I'm gonna upgrade my speaker cables next to something exotic I think. Any ideas? Sub no 2 going to have to wait till next year.

I heartily recommends you to try Chord Rumour 2 speaker cable. It suits my Apex just perfectly. It gives a very very detailed, extended highs and transparent sound without any hardness. Just an extremely pure treble with a delicate detail and liquid quality that somehow reminds me of the Single Ended triode treble purity (I have owned some SET amps in the past). By the way I'm totally in love with the Apex sound! I was listening today to some stereo nature field recordings (Aaron Ximm, Pali Meursault and Chris Watson among others) processed with dolby prologic IIx and it was simply an almost mystical experience to be right there into those totally credible soundscapes in my living room! :O :O

 

[RickyDeg]

Hey ricky

Yeah i saw your message about the antimode unit. I think i'll stick with the xt32 sub eq management, the subwoofer sounds much better than when i didnt have xt32. Antimode is a good piece of kit though.

If you can get hold of a 4311 that should do the trick. Its the same as the a100. There are some a100s around but theyve gone up in price to £2500

So in essence; do you find that XT32 turns the Apex AW-12 into a similar beast as Antimode would do? Does this mean you've tried that kit before with our beloved subwoofer? Also, out of pure curiosity, I'm wondering (and apologies if we've touched upon this before) which particular detailed settings in XT32 makes Apex perform at their best in your room. Do you keep Dynamic EQ activated or turned off? Do you set Audyssey to 'flat' or keep its initial default setting? What were your cut-off frequencies after calibration and have you changed them afterwards?

 

[ric71]

Hey RickyDeg,
Have sent you a PM on AVS forums
Rich

 

[gosalh]

Hi Ricky,

I've never used the Antimode and not compared XT32 bass management with any other bass eq device. But in comparison to XT it delivered tighter and cleaner bass and more crystal clear, detailed and dynamic sound.

I experimented with Flat but it didnt sound good so i have it full Audyssey with Dyn EQ enabled. And it sounds awesome to my ears.

I had a problem with my Blok Stax 400 hifi rack (they've run out of Black oak colour). So i've upgraded to a Blok Stax 500 and waiting for it to be despatched. Will post some photos up soon.

 

[hubiedubie]

Just ordered 2XA10s, an A40 and the Apex Sub, also a Yamaha A2010 receiver. I will have to settle for B&W M-1 as surrounds as I've maxed out my budget. Will upgrade to A10s (ans possibly another 2 A40s on the front) when budget allows. Looking forward to their arrival.

 

[gosalh]

Hi hubiedubie,

Welcome to the Apex family!

You will certainly enjoy the Apex speakers, they're a superior class from the M1s.

 

[RickyDeg]

Just ordered 2XA10s, an A40 and the Apex Sub, also a Yamaha A2010 receiver. I will have to settle for B&W M-1 as surrounds as I've maxed out my budget. Will upgrade to A10s (ans possibly another 2 A40s on the front) when budget allows. Looking forward to their arrival.

Congrats to a most excellent choice, hubiedubie, and welcome onboard. Can't want to hear detailed findings in regards to your set-up. As you might already be fully aware of though you'll probably need a heathly amount of time running these in to hit ultimate performance.

 

[MMW]

Just ordered 2XA10s, an A40 and the Apex Sub, also a Yamaha A2010 receiver. I will have to settle for B&W M-1 as surrounds as I've maxed out my budget. Will upgrade to A10s (ans possibly another 2 A40s on the front) when budget allows. Looking forward to their arrival.

Congratulations! I can´t stress how much happy I am with the 2010/apex combo. My strongest advice it´s go and replace the rear M1s for another A10s. It´s extremely important to have the same Apex A10 for the rears to appreciate the incredibly addictive and inmersive 3D soundfield the Apex/2010 combo is capable of. Another suggest it´s to careful and precisely positioning the autoEq mic and do the measurements in an absolute silent room. I´ve checked that these two requirements are a must to obtain the absolute best from the YPAO. Then you´ll be rewarded with an incredibly tonally balanced and ultra realistic soundfield. Last night I was playing BBC´s "Life" Birds episode and I was simply in the middle of the forest!

By the way I played yesterday Master and commander Bluray and DVD boxset too and I prefer the DVD Dolby Digital 5.1 mix over the Bluray DTS-HD MA track. Surely the DTS-HD track sounded purer and tonally better but the Dolby Digital track casted a better and more precisely defined soundfield that is simply magical. The DTS-HD version has a stronger rear channel sound balance that collapses the holographic soundfield and makes the rear channels very evident. Anyone has noticed the same with this movie?

 

[hubiedubie]

Thanks MMW. Due to the fact that the A10s stick out so far from the wall when mounted (and the A40s don't as much), I've added 2XA40s to the order. This will allow me to have 3XA40s at the front and move the 2 A10s to surround duties. I will then relegate the B&W M1s to Rear surround duties until I can afford more A10s. Well and truly broke now!

 

[hubiedubie]

Ok so finalised my order today. It's the following:

3 X Apex A40s for centre and front left and right.

2 X RadiusHD R45s for front presence (ordering these to give some extra stereo width as fronts have to be placed right beside screen).

2 X Apex A10s as surrounds. These will replace the B&W M1s

Apex Subwoofer.

Yamaha Aventage A2010 receiver.

Arrives on Friday so looking forward to it.

 

[Julian_b]

I can't wait till tomorrow to hear how my Apex set up sing when they are connected to their new amp. I've decided to go for the slightly older Yamaha RX 3067, though I thought when I went into the audition that I would be more likely to choose the new Yamaha 3010. To my ears the 3010 was a bit better with both movies and music - it would be around 10% better, though with 3067 negotiated down to around half the price of the 3010 it meant it was phenomenal value for money - and sounded fantastic too. Also with the new Yamaha App control and music streaming is so easy now too. It's going to be a fun weekend setting it all up! :cheer:

 

[RickyDeg]

I can't wait till tomorrow to hear how my Apex set up sing when they are connected to their new amp. I've decided to go for the slightly older Yamaha RX 3067, though I thought when I went into the audition that I would be more likely to choose the new Yamaha 3010. To my ears the 3010 was a bit better with both movies and music - it would be around 10% better, though with 3067 negotiated down to around half the price of the 3010 it meant it was phenomenal value for money - and sounded fantastic too. Also with the new Yamaha App control and music streaming is so easy now too. It's going to be a fun weekend setting it all up! :cheer:

Have fun, and indeed let us all know your findings in detail (and possibly some photos too?). Enjoy!

 

[hubiedubie]

Mine are being installed as I write. I don't think I'll get to listen until this evening as I have to go back to work soon.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi All

Please can some help as I'm looking to invest in compact surround package, before I started my research into what is the best compact lifestyle speaker package. Bose V35 was on top of my list, but after a lot reading on different forums I have no idea which route take. Please help.

List of speaker packages I was looking into.

focal dome 5.1

Paradigham Millenia range.

Monitor Audio Apex 5.1

All parted with a onkyo 609.

Bose v35 lifestyle pack.

 

[hubiedubie]

Have spent most of the weekend listening to the Apex as they break in and the experience has been very positive. Tried all sorts of music and lot's of movies too. Have partnered them with the Yamaha RX-A2010 which provides an incredibly musical combination. My previous experiences with style speaker systems were the B&W MT30s, the FPM4s and the B&W XT4s, all in conjunction with an Arcam AVR350.
The Apex / Yamaha combination comfortably outperforms all systems by a country mile for music and film.

How do they stack up against 'proper' speakers? Hard to say really. My last set of speakers was the B&W 803Ds which were obviously far superior. The biggest thing i notice is that the soundstage depth isn't nearly has holographic (in stereo). However this could be because I've been forced to place the 2 A40s on either side of my screen which is a little close together for optimal stereo listening. Also the midrange is a small bit recessed in comparison to some floorstanders I've heard.

So all in all, I'm a very happy camper. These speakers seem to comfortably outperform other speakers in their category. They also punch well above their weight in terms of price. Traditionally shaped speakers will better them in some areas in stereo but I think the gap is small.

 

[RickyDeg]

Have spent most of the weekend listening to the Apex as they break in and the experience has been very positive. Tried all sorts of music and lot's of movies too. Have partnered them with the Yamaha RX-A2010 which provides an incredibly musical combination. My previous experiences with style speaker systems were the B&W MT30s, the FPM4s and the B&W XT4s, all in conjunction with an Arcam AVR350.
The Apex / Yamaha combination comfortably outperforms all systems by a country mile for music and film.

How do they stack up against 'proper' speakers? Hard to say really. My last set of speakers was the B&W 803Ds which were obviously far superior. The biggest thing i notice is that the soundstage depth isn't nearly has holographic (in stereo). However this could be because I've been forced to place the 2 A40s on either side of my screen which is a little close together for optimal stereo listening. Also the midrange is a small bit recessed in comparison to some floorstanders I've heard.

So all in all, I'm a very happy camper. These speakers seem to comfortably outperform other speakers in their category. They also punch well above their weight in terms of price. Traditionally shaped speakers will better them in some areas in stereo but I think the gap is small.

First off, thank you for sharing your initial findings hubiedubie, it's great to know you've had positive experiences so far. Also the shortcomings in your comparison-comments are interesting aswell. I'd just like to add that you will likely continue to hear improvements from these speakers as there is no way you managed to break them in just over the weekend. I look forward to perhaps testing my own set with a Yamaha RX-A3010 sometime. I have however a big love for Audyssey right now. 3 x A40's in the front must be killer. I planned on that myself at first, but for several reasons I had to scrap that idea. Would love to see a photo of your set-up if you care to share it.