The Apex Club

[Anonymous]

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my posts

Curiouser and curiouser...

So this evening I played some CDs on the system. They sounded very good indeed. I'd love it if soundtracks sounded as good. Would anyone have any suggestions as to why they sound poor in comparison to CD? Do CDs provide better audio than a bitstreamed master audio soundtrack?

 

[RickyDeg]

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my posts

Curiouser and curiouser...

So this evening I played some CDs on the system. They sounded very good indeed. I'd love it if soundtracks sounded as good. Would anyone have any suggestions as to why they sound poor in comparison to CD? Do CDs provide better audio than a bitstreamed master audio soundtrack?

Hardly. In essence, the quality-limited capability of CD's hasn't changed for 25/30 years. A lossless codec (DTS HD Master Audio/Dolby TrueHD) on a Blu-ray is far superior both in theory and practice compared to the old CD-format (bitrate, frequency etc). How well the recording or the mix is done is another issue. If CD's sound that good to you, Blu-rays should be a highlight on your Apex.

Your problem with the sound is definitely elsewhere! Did you read my questions/speculations in my elaborate post above? You said nothing about them here.

This may be a dumb question depending on how familiar you are with your Onkyo receiver - but are you certain no kind of dynamic range compression or automatic volume feature is activated for the input of your Blu-ray player? I remember this vividly from when my Denon AVR-3808 was new and I was unfamiliar with it's features - some of those functions were set to 'on' as default. The soundstage diminished (which is what it's suppose to do). As soon as I turned it off everything changed. Can also be similar on Blu-ray players. You might be completely aware of these things? If this isn't the problem it would be good if you could reflect on the other issues I posted above.

 

[ric71]

Fionn,
Try listening with EQ's all switched off. Is the system calibrated to 75db using an spl meter? Do not rely on auto set up. Check levels with an spl meter and distances with a tape measure. I calibrate my sub by ear. Cross the Apex over 80/100hz.
What are your room acoustics like?
My Apex sounded their best aftert 200 hours of use but were great out of the box.
Use bannana plugs.
As stated by Ricky and others I too have had speaker systems costing over twice the price but I am as happy with the Apex and in more ways than one prefer their speed and accuracy.
How have you positioned them?
Lots of questions I know but would like to help.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello, is there a way of increasing the volume to my A40 centre speaker? For some reason it doesn’t sound as loud as the front and back A10’s and seems to struggle against them. I’m not sure if this has something to do with my rear A10’s being right up against the back of the sofa as there isn’t room to move them back. It odd the only way I can describe it is as if the volume of the centre speakers is set and 5 the front and rears are on 8.

I am using a denon 1910 (I know not the best but that’s all I can afford) and have used the Audyssey set up. I have run these in now for about 3 months.

 

[michael hoy]

Hello, is there a way of increasing the volume to my A40 centre speaker? For some reason it doesn’t sound as loud as the front and back A10’s and seems to struggle against them. I’m not sure if this has something to do with my rear A10’s being right up against the back of the sofa as there isn’t room to move them back. It odd the only way I can describe it is as if the volume of the centre speakers is set and 5 the front and rears are on 8.

I am using a denon 1910 (I know not the best but that’s all I can afford) and have used the Audyssey set up. I have run these in now for about 3 months.

Hi,

Have you got a SPL meter, if so use this to check the volume levels on each speaker.

You will have to go into the menu and use the manual sound test.

If not you can manually increase / decrease the output of any or all of the speakers indivudually, if I remember correctly you can use the controls under the front panel or the remote.

 

[Anonymous]

[/quote]

Hi,

Have you got a SPL meter, if so use this to check the volume levels on each speaker.

You will have to go into the menu and use the manual sound test.

If not you can manually increase / decrease the output of any or all of the speakers indivudually, if I remember correctly you can use the controls under the front panel or the remote.

[/quote]

Thanks ever so much for that . I don't have a SPL meter but I checked on the remote and there is a CH level button. I pushed that and had a look to see what it was set at.

FL = -1.5, C = -5.5, FR = 1.0

RL = -6.5 RR = -7.0 Sub = -12

Is it best to have the fronts at the same level or is it personal choice?

I increased the centre to -1.5 and it helped a lot. . Would of Audyssey set it up that way?

I will no longer have to turn the volume of the TV up to try and hear the centre speaker which in turn was turing all of them up and I was going round in a bit of a circle.

 

[RickyDeg]

magmax: dont forget that your phenomenon is likely a result of the higher sensitivity of the bigger A40 (90db) compared to the smaller A10 (87db), so the level setting done by Audyssey seems quite accurate, atleast in theory. However, what you personally prefer and experience in your room might be less than ideal. My Denon and it's Audyssey calibration always set the A40 around -5 or -4 decibel lower than the front L/R because of this. I've found in my set-up that this is quite pleasing and blends evenly with the two fronts. I've also used a sound pressure level meter and each time I've come close to the same result as Audyssey's own measurements. I've yet to feel the need to change the level. Sometimes soundtracks have a low mix in the dialogue/center-channel, which naturally has nothing to do with your equipment. This can be irritating. But then just increase the channel level temporarily, like you have done, and it normally fixes the problem.

 

[michael hoy]

Settings from my Pioneer (still to be finalised).

* Speaker Distance

[M6] Left
2.66m Front Height L --- Center
3.04m Front Height R --- Right
3.29m Surround R 1.19m Surr Back R --- Surr Back L ---
Surround L

I have never seen all speakers being set to negative figures before.

1.28m

 

[RickyDeg]

So, michael hoy, how does the Pioneer SC-LX85 actually perform with the Apex?

Hope you having a better listeningexperience than what I did with the SC-LX83.

 

[michael hoy]

So, michael hoy, how does the Pioneer SC-LX85 actually perform with the Apex?

Hope you having a better listeningexperience than what I did with the SC-LX83.

Hi,

So far very good, the sound is a step up from my 72 (as you know i liked the 72), voices are very clear and precise.

Bass is well controlled and the overall sound stage is excellent.

I have not had much time this week to play around with the settings any further but I will update you after the weekend.

I would say that there is a difference in the characteristics between the ICE amplification and the Direct FET, perhaps a little warmer, but it is early days.

 

[RickyDeg]

Cool. You sound pleased so far, michael hoy! What would you say are the benefits of Apex performance run by the new Pioneer? Anything particular that sticks out as a clear improvement?

 

[RickyDeg]

Ok fellow Apex-owners, as some of you know I've tested both the Pioneer SC-LX83 and the Anthem MRX700 to match with my beloved Apex-system. But sadly none of those appealed to me sonically. Suprisingly I'm brave enough to give the upgrade-path a third go, but this time with something fundamentally different. An integrated a/v amp from Swedish high-end brand Primare, namely their SPA22 HD. This one is about as pure and basic as a/v amps go, so I'm curious. No auto-calibration, no extra surroundchannels, no flashy features. The brand is perhaps most known for its high performance stereo-gear, of which I've experienced a few times but only in demos. Will be interesting to see what the Apex will make of this supposedly very musical surround amp. Getting my delivery next friday, for a 14-day at-home trial. Will report back my findings when I can.

 

[ric71]

Sounds exciting Ricky.

Looking forward to your findings.

I am messing about with my new Sonos ZP90 and its brilliant, so much music so little time..........

Rich

 

[RickyDeg]

Sounds exciting Ricky.

Looking forward to your findings.

I am messing about with my new Sonos ZP90 and its brilliant, so much music so little time..........

Rich

Awesome! I have a friend who's getting that set-up too now! Suppose its only a matter of time before I get one myself. Thank god music sounds as good on the Apex as it does!

 

[The_Lhc]

Settings from my Pioneer (still to be finalised).

* Speaker Distance

[M6] Left
2.66m Front Height L --- Center
3.04m Front Height R --- Right
3.29m Surround R 1.19m Surr Back R --- Surr Back L ---
Surround L

1.28m

I have never seen all speakers being set to negative figures before.

You're going to struggle to get distances expressed as a negative, the other guy was showing channel levels, one front was set to +1.0, the other channels had been turned down compared to that, hence they were all negative.

 

[RickyDeg]

Perhaps you guys should keep that specific topic on a Pioneer thread Still interesting to hear how it sounds with the Apex, but these details are perhaps a bit ill-placed in this thread. Just sayin.

 

[The_Lhc]

You've not been on the internet long have you?

 

[michael hoy]

Hi,

Have you got a SPL meter, if so use this to check the volume levels on each speaker.

You will have to go into the menu and use the manual sound test.

If not you can manually increase / decrease the output of any or all of the speakers indivudually, if I remember correctly you can use the controls under the front panel or the remote.

[/quote]

Thanks ever so much for that . I don't have a SPL meter but I checked on the remote and there is a CH level button. I pushed that and had a look to see what it was set at.

FL = -1.5, C = -5.5, FR = 1.0.

RL = -6.5 RR = -7.0 Sub = -12

Is it best to have the fronts at the same level or is it personal choice?

I increased the centre to -1.5 and it helped a lot. . Would of Audyssey set it up that way?

I will no longer have to turn the volume of the TV up to try and hear the centre speaker which in turn was turing all of them up and I was going round in a bit of a circle.

[/quote]

Magmax,

My apologies, I do not know what I was thinking at the time.
* Channel Level

[M6] Left
-2.5dB Front Height L --- Center
-3.0dB Front Height R --- Right
-2.5dB Surround R -6.0dB Surr Back R --- Surr Back L --- Surround L -5.5dB Y1
--- Y2
--- Sub Woofer -8.5dB

 

[RickyDeg]

You've not been on the internet long have you?

:shame: Since 1998. Why?

 

[The_Lhc]

You've not been on the internet long have you?

:shame: Since 1998. Why?

You should know better than to try to dictate the course of a forum thread then. It's akin to herding rhinos.

 

[RickyDeg]

You've not been on the internet long have you?

:shame: Since 1998. Why?

You should know better than to try to dictate the course of a forum thread then. It's akin to herding rhinos.

LOL

How one could interpret that as a "dictation" is beyond me. But to each his own. I would think people who stray completely off topic in a dedicated thread probably haven't been on the internet very long. Just my two cents though.

 

[The_Lhc]

I would think people who stray completely off topic in a dedicated thread probably haven't been on the internet very long.

I've got seven years on you...

 

[RickyDeg]

I would think people who stray completely off topic in a dedicated thread probably haven't been on the internet very long.

I've got seven years on you...

Then this reflects pretty badly on you, doesn't it?

 

[The_Lhc]

I would think people who stray completely off topic in a dedicated thread probably haven't been on the internet very long.

I've got seven years on you...

Then this reflects pretty badly on you, doesn't it?

Ha ha! Genius! Of all the things that reflect badly on me this doesn't even register!

Seriously, 13 years and you've never heard of thread drift?

 

[RickyDeg]

I would think people who stray completely off topic in a dedicated thread probably haven't been on the internet very long.

I've got seven years on you...

Then this reflects pretty badly on you, doesn't it?

Ha ha! Genius! Of all the things that reflect badly on me this doesn't even register!

Seriously, 13 years and you've never heard of thread drift?

Who ever said I've never heard of it? Writing "perhaps you guys should keep that specific topic on a Pioneer thread" I would personally interpret as a suggestion, not to be taken personally. But obviously that got to you. And since this pointless discussion is also off topic, it will not contiune.