The 10% cable spend

[Al ears]

Really?
The difference in sound between the jumper plates and wire was 'astonishing'?
That must (surely) mean that you could easily and consistently, tell by ear alone whether plates or wires were doing the jumping?

It takes a lot to astonish me, but if you could do that, I would seriously, honestly be beyond astonished.

Then prepare to be astonished and just accept that he can.

 

[Nico69]

Not cables but as an example there are some people on a discussion group that swear that a weighted plastic triangle placed on top of an LP makes it sound better on some systems with a discernable difference. For £280 I'm not willing to 'give it a go' unless someone comes to my house with one to try.
It's a weird old world, eh?

 

[Horowitz]

Really?
The difference in sound between the jumper plates and wire was 'astonishing'?
That must (surely) mean that you could easily and consistently, tell by ear alone whether plates or wires were doing the jumping?

It takes a lot to astonish me, but if you could do that, I would seriously, honestly be beyond astonished.

Gray, I simply don't understand the relevance of this comment. I honestly couldn't give a monkey's precisely what was 'doing the jumping'. I happened to make this one minor change to the set-up and it sounded like a major improvement. And yes, it was my ears that noticed it (and also my wife's!) - are you suggesting that for something to be subjectively noticeable, it has to be backed up by repeated A/B comparisons or even sophisticated measurement?
Or perhaps I'm in the minority in believing that if my ears tell me it's loads better, that's good enough for me?!!
If you were to tell me that subjectively your ears might not be able to tell you if your sound has improved, I'd be most surprised (possibly even 'astonished' ) - surely subjective improvement is what we all try to achieve if we're remotely bothered about how our hi-medium-or lo-fi entertains us.
The bottom line is that my small experiment produced an audible improvement to my listening pleasure, whether or not you believe it! The ears have it...

 

[abacus]

Gray, I simply don't understand the relevance of this comment. I honestly couldn't give a monkey's precisely what was 'doing the jumping'. I happened to make this one minor change to the set-up and it sounded like a major improvement. And yes, it was my ears that noticed it (and also my wife's!) - are you suggesting that for something to be subjectively noticeable, it has to be backed up by repeated A/B comparisons or even sophisticated measurement?
Or perhaps I'm in the minority in believing that if my ears tell me it's loads better, that's good enough for me?!!
If you were to tell me that subjectively your ears might not be able to tell you if your sound has improved, I'd be most surprised (possibly even 'astonished' ) - surely subjective improvement is what we all try to achieve if we're remotely bothered about how our hi-medium-or lo-fi entertains us.
The bottom line is that my small experiment produced an audible improvement to my listening pleasure, whether or not you believe it! The ears have it...

If you believe it makes a difference that's fine, however biological life forms suck when it come to identifying small (And large) differences due to the placebo effect.
In addition making a claim without verifiable evidence is just an opinion, and not a fact, (Proof) this is why there are scientific tests to eliminate the limitations of biological life forms. (The level matched double blind test is one)
Enjoy the changes and certainly post your opinions on the changes, however don't claim it to be a fact if you cannot provide verifiable evidence.

Bill

 

[Gray]

are you suggesting that for something to be subjectively noticeable, it has to be backed up by repeated A/B comparisons or even sophisticated measurement?

If the difference was, as you say, a major improvement, then yes - not only would it be measurable, but repeatedly identifiable.

I'm surprised you miss the relevance of my comment.
I can fully understand you not giving a damn whether or not a difference is measurable, but surely you expect it to be repeatable (If neither measurable nor repeatable, then how it could be an astonishing, major improvement is beyond me (and I know I won't be alone).

 

[Gray]

Then prepare to be astonished and just accept that he can.

As I've said, people would pay to see such a blind identification.
But why should they, if believers hear a difference, then there's a difference.
Why should they care what sceptics think?

There's nothing that needs proving.....they say.

 

[Nico69]

This is all getting a bit like 'religion' !!!

 

[WayneKerr]

This is all getting a bit like 'religion' !!!

It is very similar to religion, it is a belief, a blind faith, and subjective.

 

[Horowitz]

If the difference was, as you say, a major improvement, then yes - not only would it be measurable, but repeatedly identifiable.

I'm surprised you miss the relevance of my comment.
I can fully understand you not giving a damn whether or not a difference is measurable, but surely you expect it to be repeatable (If neither measurable nor repeatable, then how it could be an astonishing, major improvement is beyond me (and I know I won't be alone).

Possibly not, but if you read my original post correctly you would understand that I was in no way claiming 'my difference' to be a fact! To most reasonable people it would be clearly be understood to be the subjective impression of 2 different sets of ears. Yes, if I were trying to sell you a product by stating a measurable fact, I would feel obliged to back it up with factual measurement. WE noticed the difference - in our listening environment with my kit and I totally accept that others (with different environments, and ears ) might not share that. Precisely why I stressed that it was a SUBJECTIVE view and assuredly not a scientifically measurable fact! If I didn't make that blindingly obvious enough, I apologise.
I totally take your point about placebo, but - even medically - if you think something is making you feel better, that might well do the job whether it makes sense measurably or not! I'm sure many consultants would concur. Life is all about personal perceptions and not everything has to be scientifically provable to be worth something.
I also accept that the use of the word 'astonishing' was perhaps a little hyperbolic , but in terms of actual cost vs system cost it was, let's say, very surprising. I will continue to let my trusted ears (and budgetary considerations) to be the judge of any future 'improvements', however illogical some might think that to be .

 

[Gray]

if you think something is making you feel better, that might well do the job whether it makes sense measurably or not!

Yes, something they've repeatedly proved - something we can all agree on.
(Got a feeling I'd need the real stuff rather than placebo to cure me though 🙂).

 

[Al ears]

This is all getting a bit like 'religion' !!!

Nope, nothing at all like that subject we cannot discuss here....

 

[Deleted member 201267]

Not cables but as an example there are some people on a discussion group that swear that a weighted plastic triangle placed on top of an LP makes it sound better on some systems with a discernable difference. For £280 I'm not willing to 'give it a go' unless someone comes to my house with one to try.
It's a weird old world, eh?

Record clamp ?

 

[Nico69]

Record clamp ?

Sort of, but not.

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