The 10% cable spend

[WayneKerr]

For mods. My post is not inflammatory, it is a perfectly reasonable and balanced comment, entirely on subject, and contains no naughty words etc.

Very odd that it needs approval by a mod 🤔

Yeah, but it was a pro-cable post... you know we don't allow that kind of talk over here

 

[bigboss]

For mods. My post is not inflammatory, it is a perfectly reasonable and balanced comment, entirely on subject, and contains no naughty words etc.

Very odd that it needs approval by a mod 🤔

No idea why it was flagged up. Sorted now.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

For mods. My post is not inflammatory, it is a perfectly reasonable and balanced comment, entirely on subject, and contains no naughty words etc.

Very odd that it needs approval by a mod 🤔

It's automated, and no idea why it happens with existing members - usually it'll be a newcomer.

 

[Gray]

In a high end system cables and other ancillaries will make a difference because those expensive components are simply going to be more sensitive.

That's the number one justification from those that 'hear' cables.

Can't hear a difference?
Then:
a) sorry but you're deaf
and / or
b) sorry but your equipment is not allowing you to hear what I can.

 

[AJM1981]

High end cables are a bit the equivalent of huge fake exhaust pipes. It is much more satisfying seeing beautiful complimenting connectors and thick cables dangling from a speaker than a thinner wire. And yes, there is a "looks better means sounds better" factor. Funniest argument I've heard is that a thicker cable can carry the frequencies better. And I know a lot of bloggers believe in them and promote them in order to meet the expectations their followers have.

If someone hands out a beautiful pre-made cable for a really low price similar to an average one, I will not say I am going to refuse it, but these raindances around audio are not my cup of tea.

 

[Al ears]

For mods. My post is not inflammatory, it is a perfectly reasonable and balanced comment, entirely on subject, and contains no naughty words etc.

Very odd that it needs approval by a mod 🤔

it normally wouldn't unless it's your very first post.
No idea why this would have occurred unless it contravened some weird algorithm that the forum uses.

 

[Gray]

It's automated

Artificial Intelligence - increasingly, the future for us all.
Goodnight.

 

[Nico69]

These in the length I'd need would be over 150% of my system!
witch hat spectre cables
A guy on the Linn forums has just got some. Insane!

 

[Al ears]

These in the length I'd need would be over 150% of my system!
witch hat spectre cables
A guy on the Linn forums has just got some. Insane!

Perfectly normal if you happen to be an oil baron..... And they are cheap in comparison to many others.

 

[AJM1981]

These in the length I'd need would be over 150% of my system!
witch hat spectre cables
A guy on the Linn forums has just got some. Insane!

I'm sure about a few things.

These kind of cables were originally inspired on cables for professional installations for concerts and clubs. Meant to give speakers some "balls" in optical sense.

I am also sure about a second purpose as they can probably withstand quite a bit of force, resulting in something I would go for if I would need to plug and replug systems day by day. For example for fairs, showrooms or other demonstration purposes a solid cable is definitely a big plus. Places where you can not tinker with stripping wire and screwing bananaplugs on, or "manage" cable spaghetti. For these purposes cables like these are solid and functional, ready for loads of action.

For my home system I don't need that. The cable only has a passive function.

 

[record_spot]

Used to do it many years ago but that was when my system was less than £1000 (Arcam Alpha 5 amp, Mission 751 and Marantz CD-52II), so £70 or so was easy to do even in the early 90s. Over the years, I've tried loads of interconnects and have settled on one set finally.

These days, my stereo has a pair of Fisual Havana XLs at about £45 - they went up in price in the last couple of years, but they're great cables. Well built, good locking connections and all I need. My stereo is pretty a pair of actives and a DAC at around £2000 at the as new price.

 

[nopiano]

These in the length I'd need would be over 150% of my system!
witch hat spectre cables
A guy on the Linn forums has just got some. Insane!

Must be designed for Naim as minimum 3.5 metres. Absurd!

 

[manicm]

That's the number one justification from those that 'hear' cables.

Can't hear a difference?
Then:
a) sorry but you're deaf
and / or
b) sorry but your equipment is not allowing you to hear what I can.

My comment wasn't a statement in black and white, and neither being an endorsement, but I'll give you a concrete example:

It's a known fact that Naim seperates sounded better with their own interconnects, speaker cables and optional power cables.

The corollary of what you say is also true, for those who do hear differences:

1. They're snobs
2. They have expectation bias.
3. Their ears are deceiving them (we should hear with our brains, not ears)
4. We're experiencing the placebo effect
5. We haven't done adequate a/b testing.

To put it more succinctly - the usual damn BS when any side tries to shove their view on the other at all costs, not allowing for any light or shade.

 

[Gray]

My comment wasn't a statement in black and white, and neither being an endorsement, but I'll give you a concrete example:

It's a known fact that Naim seperates sounded better with their own interconnects, speaker cables and optional power cables.

The corollary of what you say is also true, for those who do hear differences:

1. They're snobs
2. They have expectation bias.
3. Their ears are deceiving them (we should hear with our brains, not ears)
4. We're experiencing the placebo effect
5. We haven't done adequate a/b testing.

To put it more succinctly - the usual damn BS when any side tries to shove their view on the other at all costs, not allowing for any light or shade.

I'd pick out 2 & 4 from your list, certainly not 1, that's just an insult (although they do often mention the fact that cheap cables are audibly inferior - which does make them seem a bit snobbish ).
And yes, it was essential to use Naim speaker cable on certain Naim amps in the past - to prevent them blowing up.

I could be wrong, but I think it's a fact that, of those who've tried, the majority do not notice a difference between cables.

I would ask a very simple question - one that never receives a seriously considered answer:
Why don't most people hear cables?
(I would suggest there may be some difficulty in making the answer sound respectful - rather than condescending).

 

[manicm]

I'd pick out 2 & 4 from your list, certainly not 1, that's just an insult (although they do often mention the fact that cheap cables are audibly inferior - which does make them seem a bit snobbish ).
And yes, it was essential to use Naim speaker cable on certain Naim amps in the past - to prevent them blowing up.

I could be wrong, but I think it's a fact that, of those who've tried, the majority do not notice a difference between cables.

I would ask a very simple question - one that never receives a seriously considered answer:
Why don't most people hear cables?
(I would suggest there may be some difficulty in making the answer sound respectful - rather than condescending).

Oh really, no-one hears cables? No-one hears DACs either, if you're taking purely about the chip.

 

[podknocker]

Physics cannot explain why some people think they can hear posh cables. I'm on the side of physics.

I believe people think they can hear the difference, but these believers are never testing blind, under controlled conditions.

Anyone can say it sounds better, but surely you should be required to prove it and explain why.

If someone was under test conditions and could hear the difference between a £5 and £5000 cable, every single time, then I would change my opinion and be in awe of their magical hearing.

Nobody has ever come forward, on this forum and presented proof that expensive, snake oil cables make a difference.

 

[Gray]

If someone was under test conditions and could hear the difference between a £5 and £5000 cable, every single time, then I would change my opinion and be in awe of their magical hearing.

So would I and everybody else.
(And rightly so - it would be something to behold. As I've said before, they could charge for tickets - the modern day equivalent of the Victorian freak show).

"Roll up, roll up, come see the human bat".

 

[matthewpianist]

I've got a mixture of Chord Company, QED and Merlin cabling. It works.

 

[abacus]

You sit down and listen to your Hi-Fi and a beautiful 3 dimensional image appears in front of you, except it doesn't and is purely a trick of the mind. (The sound only comes from the speakers)
Psychologically it exists, but not in reality, which is why it collapses when you walk towards it, but as it sounds nice and enjoyable just enjoy it. (The same applies to cables in that there is no difference between good quality cables and expensive magic cables, but if you believe it sounds better than just enjoy it, but don't say that the differences you hear are a fact unless you have verifiable evidence)

Bill

 

[manicm]

My argument was using cables in very high end equipment. Would you take a chance with $5 cables in a 20k amp?

At that level I'm willing to bet cables may well make a difference.

Everyone oohs and aahs and would admit a 2k most likely will sound better than a 200 quid one. But install cables then oh no.....

Some here may be familiar with Jay's Iyagi YouTube channel, some may even respect him. But he's categorically said, that some el cheapo cables from Amazon or Alibaba that he bought and tested were terrible, even though they looked expensive.

So if he reviews such and such equipment like ifi or whatever he's a hero, but cables that sound different to him then he's Satan.

It's this kind of dogmatic myopia that I can't tolerate.

 

[abacus]

My argument was using cables in very high end equipment. Would you take a chance with $5 cables in a 20k amp?

At that level I'm willing to bet cables may well make a difference.

Everyone oohs and aahs and would admit a 2k most likely will sound better than a 200 quid one. But install cables then oh no.....

Some here may be familiar with Jay's Iyagi YouTube channel, some may even respect him. But he's categorically said, that some el cheapo cables from Amazon or Alibaba that he bought and tested were terrible, even though they looked expensive.

So if he reviews such and such equipment like ifi or whatever he's a hero, but cables that sound different to him then he's Satan.

It's this kind of dogmatic myopia that I can't tolerate.

We move forward by having verifiable evidence not belief, if you don't believe in that than that's fine, just don't expect anybody to take you seriously.
BTW: Unless they give the best price, you will not find any magic cables in professional studios, and their equipment puts hi end Hi-Fi to shame. (If you ever get the chance to go into a studio, do so, but be prepared to come back home and realise your equipment is not a good as you thought it was)

Bill

 

[podknocker]

I know studios don't use the overpriced stuff you find on Futureshop, for example.

Studios use cabling that simply meets the spec.

They don't obsess about fancy bits of wood, attached to the mic or mixing desk cables.

The XLRs will be good quality, but not this nonsense:

AudioQuest Dragon 2 XLR to 2 XLR Audio Cable Pair

The Dragon is AudioQuest's crowning achievement in their 42-year history. It features Perfect-Surface Silver (PSS) conductors, PSS drains to take the NDS to Level 7 and silver-plated barrels, resulting in the highest performance ever offered by any AudioQuest cable. This cable will be hard to...

www.futureshop.co.uk

XLR cables tend to be used over long cable runs, but are overkill for a 1m connection.

Taking this into account, a 6m XLR here would cost you £33k.

People need to wake up and smell the physics book.

These flash cables are there to take your money and cannot offer any better performance.

It's over engineered, pretentious cable bling.

It's the same sort of marketing that goes into gaming and graphics cards.

Fancy designs and expensive construction, with pretentious labels etc.

God, Dragon, For those who dare, Monster, Supreme master gamer, blah blah blah.

It MUST be better, cos it has a picture of a Dragon and Dragon's don't exist!

Nerdy nonsense in nearly every sector of the tech industry and that's what you're paying for.

 

[Crit1Q]

I can definitely understand being thrifty when it comes to audio equipment. Personally, I've never spent anywhere close to 10% of my budget on cables. In fact, I usually try to find good-quality cables at a reasonable price, as I don't believe that spending more money necessarily equates to better sound quality.
That being said, I know that some people do swear by high-end cables and believe that they make a noticeable difference in sound quality. However, I think it's important to balance your budget and priorities when it comes to audio equipment. If spending a lot of money on cables isn't a priority for you, then it's perfectly fine to stick with more affordable options.
In the end, the most important thing is that you're happy with the sound quality of your system, regardless of how much you spent on cables.

 

[manicm]

We move forward by having verifiable evidence not belief, if you don't believe in that than that's fine, just don't expect anybody to take you seriously.
BTW: Unless they give the best price, you will not find any magic cables in professional studios, and their equipment puts hi end Hi-Fi to shame. (If you ever get the chance to go into a studio, do so, but be prepared to come back home and realise your equipment is not a good as you thought it was)

Bill

Please provide said verifiable evidence.

Professional studios do not necessarily use better equipment then domestic hifi, they however choose the most brutally neutral sounding equipment, and then apply mastering and mixing thereafter.

Their equipment that 'puts high end hifi to shame' may well prove unlistenable in your home.

 

[Deleted member 201267]

For the cost of some of these "boutique" cables you could buy a set of top quality ATC Actives, that would, produce a sound close to perfection in 99% of forum members listening rooms...