Teddy Pardo PSU for Arcam rDAC

acalex

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Hi guys,

I was reading today on internet a few reviews of this piece of equipment and apparently it increases drastically the SQ of the already good (for the price) Arcam rDAC. Teddy Pardo is an Israeli company and the price of this PSU is around 300 euro. As I was already thinking about upgrading the poor Arcam PSU, it sounds like a nice (and not too overpriced) solution...

Does anybod own this and could give his unbiased piece of advice?

Thanks a lot!
 

acalex

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chebby said:
Why not sell the rDac and get a Rega DAC?

The Rega has an excellent PSU.

You'd probably end up spending about the same either way.

Do you think is better like this? I would like to try the Rega DAC first (how much is a Rega DAC) and compare with an Arcam + PSU but I am not sure I will ever be able to do this test...
 

acalex

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It actually makes sense, especially if you say the Rega DAC has already an excellent PSU built in.

After living with my new system for a while now, I realised my ONLY source will be digital (pc and internet radio) so it would make sense for me to have a great DAC between pc and ampli. I am actually wondering if the M2Tech Young DAC wouldn't be maybe the best choice at this point...what do you think?
 

tino

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You've gone from a Euro 300 PSU upgrade to a £500 Rega DAC to a £1200 M2Tech Young Dac in just over an hour ;)

If you are convinced on a digital only system for all your audio, have you considered a good quality audio streamer such as SimpleAudio Roomplayer, Sneaky DS, Musical Fidelity M1 Clic, Leema Acoustics Streamer etc. etc. Then you might not actually need any PC / DAC at all (but you will need some kind of NAS + control device).

There are a lot of new products coming on to the market ... DACs, Streamers etc. so it may be advisable to wait while until quality and prices begin to settle, unless you feel like taking the plunge at this point in time.
 

tino

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... on the subject of power supply upgrades ... and some of the crazy prices I have see for them, I've often wondered if a commercial laboratory grade power supply might actually be better and more cost effective. Hmmm :? .
 

acalex

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tino said:
You've gone from a Euro 300 PSU upgrade to a £500 Rega DAC to a £1200 M2Tech Young Dac in just over an hour ;)

If you are convinced on a digital only system for all your audio, have you considered a good quality audio streamer such as SimpleAudio Roomplayer, Sneaky DS, Musical Fidelity M1 Clic, Leema Acoustics Streamer etc. etc. Then you might not actually need any PC / DAC at all (but you will need some kind of NAS + control device).

There are a lot of new products coming on to the market ... DACs, Streamers etc. so it may be advisable to wait while until quality and prices begin to settle, unless you feel like taking the plunge at this point in time.

You are right, but if I take the REGA I woud sell my Arcam rDAC and won't need any PSU :D
Regarding the Young DAC, I realized just now how expensive it is...but still wouldn't be such a problem the budget if this really would be an huge jump!
Regarding the streamer you might be right...I wanted to have a NAS anyway. For now my main sources are MP3 (320Kbps), FLACs, Accuradio and Grooveshark. I am not on spotify cz I am in a country where the service is not present yet (Belgium). So I would need some kind of equipment which can access all these channels...not easy for now

But you are definitely right...I am starting to dig now into details but I think i will buy some stuff around Xmas time. I will check the streamers you suggested me also...thanks a lot :)
 

Overdose

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There is a chap on this forum that has the Matrix Quattro DAC and is very impressed with it.

Unless there is something wrong with the standard rDAC PSU (I don't know how many manufacturers sell sub-standard PSUs that hold back sound quality), a 'special' PSU will not make any difference to the sound at all, unless it too, is particularly poor.

Save your money and invest in something that actually works. The Quattro DAC has had very good reviews and is also a pre amp, headphone amp and has remote control, so you actually get quite a lot for your money. This could then drive either active speakers or a power amp or two. :)
 

tino

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Or if you pop across the border from Belgium to Holland, you can check out the Metrum Acoustics Quad and Octave DACs that come with matching power supplies (if you need), are very reasonably priced and have excellent reviews. These devices are a little unusual in that they use very high speed industrial DACs rather than consumer audio DACs.
 

acalex

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tino said:
Or if you pop across the border from Belgium to Holland, you can check out the Metrum Acoustics Quad and Octave DACs that come with matching power supplies (if you need), are very reasonably priced and have excellent reviews. These devices are a little unusual in that they use very high speed industrial DACs rather than consumer audio DACs.

I see, DAC Quad is priced around 450 euro, the Octave between 600 and 700 euro depending on the matching power supply (7 or 15VA). Wasn't aware of this brand, is that any good? I would it compare to the Rega DAC for example?
 

dannycanham

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Wow what a load of awful advice. You are pretty much worse off from before you asked the question.

The rDac has a power supply that costs a few quid. It is one of the main reasons for the rDacs low price. On budget hi-fi you won't notice.

The Rega DAC has a power supply fitting for mid range hi-fi. It is really the level the rDac should come with but it would have pushed the rDacs price up by at least £100. An upgrade is a good idea if you are using it with mid range of above kit and like the rDacs sound.

Either DAC is good and I would choose the one you prefer the sound of.

The Teddy Power supply is very high quality (allot better than the Rega DACs psu). It is based on the power supply upgrades they do for Naim kit. It is somewhat overkill for the rDac. A £150-£200 psu would be a better match but I haven't seen one.

It does improve the sound. I was very happy with mine and still am.

The one plus of getting an overkill PSU (that may counter paying so much or it may not) is that upgrades to the rDac become a viable option. A low jitter (lower than most <£2K sources) clock makes a good upgrade. Lower noise capacitors make good upgrades. You can do this either as a home hobby or getting fidelity audio or audiocom or suchlike to upgrade for you.

Again this does improve the sound.

If I wanted a Rega DAC I'd own one. I don't. I preferred my rDac with PSU.

If I wanted an £800 DAC I'd own one. I don't. I prefer my upgraded rDac with PSU.

However getting the opportunity to compare the £500 dacs to an rDac with upgraded PSU will be very difficult without buying one. Same with comparing £800+ DACs and an upgraded rDac. I'm happy with my comparisons, but it took a leap of faith to get the chance to compare. I am not about to advise you to blindly pay out money for a listening test though, that would be bad advice. I will only say that I am happy I did.

What do you want? A better DAC no matter what type of sound it gives. Even if it isn't a type of sound you prefer? In which case follow the awful advice you’ve been given. A better DAC and to search through different makes of DAC, maybe finding a type of sound you prefer? In which case trial DACs in your local dealers. Or a better sounding rDac? In which case upgrade it.
 

dannycanham

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tino said:
... on the subject of power supply upgrades ... and some of the crazy prices I have see for them, I've often wondered if a commercial laboratory grade power supply might actually be better and more cost effective. Hmmm :? .

More cost effective but common Lab grade power supplies would be a step down from the teddy.
 

acalex

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dannycanham said:
Wow what a load of awful advice. You are pretty much worse off from before you asked the question.

The rDac has a power supply that costs a few quid. It is one of the main reasons for the rDacs low price. On budget hi-fi you won't notice.

The Rega DAC has a power supply fitting for mid range hi-fi. It is really the level the rDac should come with but it would have pushed the rDacs price up by at least £100. An upgrade is a good idea if you are using it with mid range of above kit and like the rDacs sound.

Either DAC is good and I would choose the one you prefer the sound of.

The Teddy Power supply is very high quality (allot better than the Rega DACs psu). It is based on the power supply upgrades they do for Naim kit. It is somewhat overkill for the rDac. A £150-£200 psu would be a better match but I haven't seen one.

It does improve the sound. I was very happy with mine and still am.

The one plus of getting an overkill PSU (that may counter paying so much or it may not) is that upgrades to the rDac become a viable option. A low jitter (lower than most <£2K sources) clock makes a good upgrade. Lower noise capacitors make good upgrades. You can do this either as a home hobby or getting fidelity audio or audiocom or suchlike to upgrade for you.

Again this does improve the sound.

If I wanted a Rega DAC I'd own one. I don't. I preferred my rDac with PSU.

If I wanted an £800 DAC I'd own one. I don't. I prefer my upgraded rDac with PSU.

However getting the opportunity to compare the £500 dacs to an rDac with upgraded PSU will be very difficult without buying one. Same with comparing £800+ DACs and an upgraded rDac. I'm happy with my comparisons, but it took a leap of faith to get the chance to compare. I am not about to advise you to blindly pay out money for a listening test though, that would be bad advice. I will only say that I am happy I did.

What do you want? A better DAC no matter what type of sound it gives. Even if it isn't a type of sound you prefer? In which case follow the awful advice you’ve been given. A better DAC and to search through different makes of DAC, maybe finding a type of sound you prefer? In which case trial DACs in your local dealers. Or a better sounding rDac? In which case upgrade it.

Danny, thanks a lot for your thoughts which I really appreciate. So you have an upgraded rDAC with a Teddy Power supply...and you are very happy with it. As it compares to a REGA or better DAC it is hard to know I guess.

I am honest with you...I like the sound of rDAC but would like to get a better quality sound! That's why my first thougth was upgrading the dac and adding an external PSU. As you say...this is a step by step upgrade and you can do it whenever you want (or whenever your have cash to spend :D). I am also aware I have never tried a Rega DAC, so I can't objectively say I don't like the sound...or I prefer the one form rDAC. Would be nice to compare the sound of my DAC compared to your upgradded DAC + PSU and see...did you upgrade the rDAC yourself or sent over to fidelity audio/audiocom?

Thanks a lot
 

Overdose

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dannycanham said:
Wow what a load of awful advice.

I would suggest that advising someone to modify a new product without first comparing it to the competition would be bad advice, not to mention the ensuing warranty issues if a problem developes and loss of value when it comes to resale.

Are you also suggesting that Arcam supply their DAC with a substandard PSU?

I am very interested though, in what you consider an upgraded PSU to do to improve sound quality. Surely the job of a PSU is simply to provide uninterupted and clean power?
 

tino

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I don't think bad advice is being offered ... just alternative suggestions given the sum of money in question and the desire to build a high(er) quality all digital system than the original poster's current position. Budget does not seem to be the issue here ... the original poster is asking whether £250 for a power supply is a worthwhile upgrade, and is prepared to spend more if needs be. The power supply probably might(?!) be a significant improvmenent, but I feel it may be a case of diminishing returns as these things often are, even more so if you start splashing out another £250 on internal component improvements. Mind you, if these things are carried out on a DIY basis then the improvement/£ becomes a more attractive proposition.

As for the original post ... I would listen to Danny's advice since he actually owns a TeddyPardo power supply and rDac.

However, if I were in the same position I would put my money elsewhere, but I'm going to contradict myself in saying that a good power supply is a nice thing to have and potentially re-usable if alternative wall wart powered equipment is purchased in the future.
 
A

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Overdose said:
dannycanham said:
Wow what a load of awful advice.

I would suggest that advising someone to modify a new product without first comparing it to the competition would be bad advice, not to mention the ensuing warranty issues if a problem developes and loss of value when it comes to resale.

Are you also suggesting that Arcam supply their DAC with a substandard PSU?

I am very interested though, in what you consider an upgraded PSU to do to improve sound quality. Surely the job of a PSU is simply to provide uninterupted and clean power?

Isn't it going to be impossible to do that though? Surely he needs to buy the new PSU to have a chance of comparing. Maybe I a missing something, but following that logic none of these upgrade companies would be doing any business. Arcam presumably accept that to sell rdac at that cost they have to conpromise somewhere. At least the consumer can easily upgrade it if they want to. All products have to compromise somewhere on the quality of parts they use.
 

Overdose

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tino said:
However, if I were in the same position I would put my money elsewhere, but I'm going to contradict myself in saying that a good power supply is a nice thing to have and potentially re-usable if alternative wall wart powered equipment is purchased in the future.

Not if it's the wrong voltage it won't. PSUs come in a variety of output voltages, depending on application, they cannot be interchanged at will, even the output connections differ.

There seems to be quite a lot of supposition and assumption in some of the advice given so far, so back to the OP.

Buy the best that you can afford and try before you buy. If you cannot try, then go for the ground swell of opinion, doing your research on all possible options that you have considered. If you are considering modifications, look on specific DIY audio forums, for advice from professionals and DIYers that have more extensive experience. I have only tinkered with a handful of DACs and PSUs, but there some very clever, experienced and dedicated people out there, only happy to point you in the right direction.
 

tino

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Overdose said:
tino said:
... a good power supply is a nice thing to have and potentially re-usable if alternative wall wart powered equipment is purchased in the future.

Not if it's the wrong voltage it won't. PSUs come in a variety of output voltages, depending on application, they cannot be interchanged at will, even the output connections differ.

Of course! The clue is in my words "potentially re-usable" ... The TP power supply being discussed is 5-6V @ 1A. A lot of accessories etc. operate at that voltage and at less than 1A thus making the power supply potentially re-usable. But if you need 9V, 12V etc. then of course it's not going to work.
 

True Blue

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Why not just get a dedicated spur fitted for a fraction of the price (well about half), this will drastically improve the whole of your sound and will stay even when you eventually upgrade. If you can afford to split the incoming mains and have the HIFI socket fed from its own consumer unit.

Best vfm upgrade I ever did. On par with a £2k box upgrade.

Sort out the mains first!!!!!
 

acalex

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True Blue said:
Why not just get a dedicated spur fitted for a fraction of the price (well about half), this will drastically improve the whole of your sound and will stay even when you eventually upgrade. If you can afford to split the incoming mains and have the HIFI socket fed from its own consumer unit.

Best vfm upgrade I ever did. On par with a £2k box upgrade.

Sort out the mains first!!!!!

What's that?

To recap, my objective is to get a better, clearer sound. I am not at all unsatisfied with the sound of the Arcam rDAC, even if I didn't compare with the REGA yet. When I bought my first system, the Arcam was the only DAC there (wasn't a specialized hi-fi shop). But I will sort this out soon cz I found some dealers in Brussels which are selling the Rega DAC (a bit overpriced I must say...in UK I can buy for 500 pounds, here not less than 675 euro :wall:).

In terms of cost might be equivalent (Arcam + PSU and rega DAC). The advantage of the first solution is that I don't have to resell my DAC and have two pieces of equipment which are dedicated to a specific scope (which I think is always better than haveing a single product doing both things). Furthermore...I might in the future upgrade the internal components of the Arcam as soon as I have time and extra cash to get a better product...some people did that (danny for example) and very happy with the results. As I said already, I want to get a generally clearer sound, more realistic, but I am quite happy with the type of sound itself...

Hope this helps to understand my point.
 

tino

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If the rDac supply is 6V @ 1A ... then perhaps one could try a 6V motorcycle battery if you are confident to attempt such a thing :O . Beware there will be no short circuit protection but for about £15 you can try a clean DC supply to your rDAC and see if you think it's worth spending another £250 on a power supply.
 

acalex

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tino said:
If the rDac supply is 6V @ 1A ... then perhaps one could try a 6V motorcycle battery if you are confident to attempt such a thing :O . Beware there will be no short circuit protection but for about £15 you can try a clean DC supply to your rDAC and see if you think it's worth spending another £250 on a power supply.

Let's take a step back...the type of improvement we are talking about when referring to better power supply is the AC-DC transformation right? Or is there another component?

When you referring to a clean DC supply worth 15 GBP, you are riferring to a tool doing what exactly? A tool which is put after the AC-DC transformer and "clean" the DC?

Thanks
 

Overdose

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The PSU upgrade that has been talked about is just a supply of DC voltage of the required amount to the DAC. The PSU converts an AC voltage to DC. Various filters (capacitors and resistors) are used to reduce the ripple of the output and to remove any potential 'noise' on the supply. What Tino is suggesting, quite rightly too, is that using a specific DC supply from a battery, is as noiseless a supply as you are likely to get.

The thing is, if the original supply is properly designed, no other PSU will make any improvement anyway, as it will already be providing a clean DC voltage at the correct current.

What TrueBlue has said, is that if there is 'noise' on your electrical supply, you could have an electrician add an additional circuit dedicated to you AV system. A cheaper alternative to adding a perhaps unneccessary upgraded PSU and it may remove some unwanted 'noise' by separating the cicuit out from another that may have noise inducing components on it.

All of the advice so far has been suggested because it has been assumed that the clarity you seek is somehow generated by having a 'noisy' supply and somehow perhaps causing jitter. It may be that the issue is not related to the DAC at all.

The fact of the matter is, that jitter in todays electronics, although evident, is at or below the noise floor and is therefore a non issue with regards to sound quality.
 

acalex

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Overdose said:
The PSU upgrade that has been talked about is just a supply of DC voltage of the required amount to the DAC. The PSU converts an AC voltage to DC. Various filters (capacitors and resistors) are used to reduce the ripple of the output and to remove any potential 'noise' on the supply. What Tino is suggesting, quite rightly too, is that using a specific DC supply from a battery, is as noiseless a supply as you are likely to get.

The thing is, if the original supply is properly designed, no other PSU will make any improvement anyway, as it will already be providing a clean DC voltage at the correct current.

What TrueBlue has said, is that if there is 'noise' on your electrical supply, you could have an electrician add an additional circuit dedicated to you AV system. A cheaper alternative to adding a perhaps unneccessary upgraded PSU and it may remove some unwanted 'noise' by separating the cicuit out from another that may have noise inducing components on it.

All of the advice so far has been suggested because it has been assumed that the clarity you seek is somehow generated by having a 'noisy' supply and somehow perhaps causing jitter. It may be that the issue is not related to the DAC at all.

The fact of the matter is, that jitter in todays electronics, although evident, is at or below the noise floor and is therefore a non issue with regards to sound quality.

This is the problem cz the one sold with the arcam rDAC is not properly designed...in a sense that it provides 6V DC but uses cheap technology to keep the overall price of the DAC at an attractive level.

You can read this review from Audiocom: http://www.audiocominternational.com/teddyrdacps-p-206.html

It shows different lines on an axis Frequence/Amplitude (dB) and compares the noise level of the standard PSU provided by arcam, a better one made using the linear regulator technology and the one provided by Teddy Pardo.

Regarding my original supply I already made an improvment by adding maine xtension blocks with a built-in noise-reduction filter (the Belkin extreme series)
 

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