Teddy Pardo PSU for Arcam rDAC

[Overdose]

Then, if you believe a clean DC supply to be the solution to your perceived problem, use a 6V motorcycle battery, as suggested by Tino and rotate it with another on charge when the need arises. This will provide the cleanest supply and by the rational of cleaner is better, will provide you with the best possible sound quality upgrade bar none. It also happens to be the cheapest by far, even considering two batteries and a charger.

Spend the money saved on more music, sit back and enjoy.

 

[dannycanham]

I don't think bad advice is being offered ... just alternative suggestions given the sum of money in question and the desire to build a high(er) quality all digital system than the original poster's current position. Budget does not seem to be the issue here ... the original poster is asking whether £250 for a power supply is a worthwhile upgrade, and is prepared to spend more if needs be. The power supply probably might(?!) be a significant improvmenent, but I feel it may be a case of diminishing returns as these things often are, even more so if you start splashing out another £250 on internal component improvements. Mind you, if these things are carried out on a DIY basis then the improvement/£ becomes a more attractive proposition.

As for the original post ... I would listen to Danny's advice since he actually owns a TeddyPardo power supply and rDac.

However, if I were in the same position I would put my money elsewhere, but I'm going to contradict myself in saying that a good power supply is a nice thing to have and potentially re-usable if alternative wall wart powered equipment is purchased in the future.

I would say dismissing upgrades out of hand with no experience of them is bad advice. Especially when so many people who have experience of them are extremely positive. (Just look in other forums for proof)

I would say dismissing the power supply as being a bottle neck with a “well if it ain’t broke” attitude is bad advice, especially when every review of the rDac mentions the power supply bottle neck. You don’t even need personal experience here just some basic understanding of the current popular DACs.

I wouldn’t class a brain surgeons and a rocket scientist’s opinion as just different when it comes either rocket science or brain surgery. One of them will be bad advice; the one that is just sprouting an opinion off the top of their head based on nothing.

I would say the same with buying different DACs. There are hundreds of good competing DACs at the moment. It isn’t just about “pick the £500 What Hi-Fi 5 star DAC”. You have to set a budget and then go and compare DACs. That is the only way to make the most of your money when picking a new DAC. We can all list more and more expensive DACs. If it isn’t about the money then the advice is still wrong; dump the rest of your mid-range hi-f system and spend on the whole chain.

Yes there is potential waste in upgrades when they aren’t done as a hobby. You have to pay for man hours on top. However upgrades are also the only way to get certain levels of quality under £2K. A good quality low jitter clock costs £80-£300 on its own. The clocks in digital equipment under £1500 99% of the time just don’t compete. The same occurs in power supplies. If you want the basics of very low jitter and very low noise paired with the type of DAC sound you like, then it is a cheaper way of going about it. Amongst other things you will end up with greater clarity and focus compared to spending a similar amount to the total on a new DAC. The third upgrade is the most expensive for what you get, other lower noise better specified components. However when compared to spending £x on a cable it is a no brainer. You will easily get more for your money with internal upgrades. The third upgrade area is icing on the cake. People spend alot of money in that area in the form of cables, stands and vibration control for a much smaller return.

 

[Anonymous]

Using a battery is an excellent cheap and easy test. If using a battery shows no improvement over the standard supply, then no amount of money spent on an after-market supply will be any better.

Worth remembering that many hifi devices generate multiple supply rails from internal switch-mode supplies. Replacing the wall wart switcher for a linear supply doesn't remove the internal switchers.

 

[philipjohnwright]

I USE AN RDAC WITH AN UPDATED POWER SUPPLY.

Sorry for the capital letters, just wanted to point out this post is based on real experience.

The rDAC is a great DAC that punches far above its weight. It does benefit from a better supply though, and I too looked at the Teddy Pardo (looked as opposed to tried it). In the end one of the various forums pointed me at a low cost alternative, from Maplins of all places. It was only £20 so I bought it on spec; the improvement it brought about was very noticeable on my system (Mac Mini / Pure Music / rDac / Ayre AX-7e / Harbeth Compact 7-2's).

It's a linear supply rather than a switched-mode one, which seems to be the key. I would GUESS that it delivers a fair amount of the benefit of a Teddy Pardo or similar for a fraction of the cost - the old 80/20 rule (not knocking Teddy Pardo, his kit is very price competitive and seems to be very good quality, if I were a Naim user I'd be a customer of his)

The only negative is that the Maplins supply is variable voltage, so you have to set it to 6V, which is slightly fiddly. Needless to say I took great care, not wanting to blow the rDAC.

I THINK it was the VN10L model - see http://www.maplin.co.uk/ac-dc-multi-voltage-20w-power-supply-32754. I will check tonight when I get home. Bottom line though is what have you got to lose, other than £20, which in hi-fi terms is nothing.

It would be interesting to compare my rDAC + Maplins with some of the alternatives mentioned above; I suspect it would give them a good run for their money. But that's only me theorising; I'm not going to do it as I've better things to do, like listening to music

Phil

 

[acalex]

I do agree with Danny on the fact that the PSU for the arcam DAC is the bottle neck. I have read it everywhere and each user which has replaced it with a better one (even cheap one like the Maplin's) has identified a certain level of improvement. This is understandable because it is a different technology used alread (linear vs switch mode).

Now if spending 250GPB is worth the improvement this is another topic...and this is what I am trying to find out here. I start from the point I like the sound of the Arcam rDAC, but would like to improve the clarity at avery range. That's why it makes sense for me to start looking at better PSU and internal upgrades.

Yes a better DAC might be an option...but for example the M2Tech DAC (which costs over 1k euro) has again an external PSU...

I might try with a battery, just to get rid of the doubt before investing further money in this area...just not sure about the current. All the 6V batteries like this one http://www.battery-direct.fr/apc-rbc-dload/HR9-6.pdf are 9/12Ah...are those any good?

Danny, just a curiosity, the 3 levels upgrade on the website of Audiocom are mutually exclusive? I mean...if I take the second level upgrade at first for exmaple, to get the 3rd one in future I just have to pay the difference between the 2 or need to pay the full amount a second time?

Thanks again

 

[eggontoast]

I can't believe Arcam supplied an inferior noisy switched mode power supply and ham-stringed their unit so badly.....what idiots they obviously have no idea how to design good products and have no business sense.

Its a good job a bunch of jobsworths have knocked together a far 'superior' linear power supply from £30 of parts and are selling it for £250......top bananas

 

[philipjohnwright]

The Arcam guys have got very good business judgement - they chose a price point and designed a product that outperforms its competitors by quite a margin. And it is a good product, bettering my Meridian 566 DAC for example, which cost a lot more. The fact that it responds well to upgrades is a plus.

And 'jobsworths' for putting £30 of parts into a £250 product? Get real. Price up the components in most modern equipment and you'd get a shock. Particularly a lot of the low volume / silly price stuff produced by the small firms, where the overheads / profit margin account for most of the price.

And as for Teddy Pardo; his power supplies cost less than half Naim's for the equivalent product, so what does that make the Naim guys then, shysters? I think not.

 

[acalex]

The Arcam guys have got very good business judgement - they chose a price point and designed a product that outperforms its competitors by quite a margin. And it is a good product, bettering my Meridian 566 DAC for example, which cost a lot more. The fact that it responds well to upgrades is a plus.

And 'jobsworths' for putting £30 of parts into a £250 product? Get real. Price up the components in most modern equipment and you'd get a shock. Particularly a lot of the low volume / silly price stuff produced by the small firms, where the overheads / profit margin account for most of the price.

And as for Teddy Pardo; his power supplies cost less than half Naim's for the equivalent product, so what does that make the Naim guys then, shysters? I think not.

Indeed, getting a better-performing PSU would have increased the price of further 100pounds at least moving the price range which is actually very competitive compared to others DAC in the same range...

 

[eggontoast]

You are both wide of the mark, the reason the external power supply is switch mode is due to obtaining approvals for all regions. It has nothing to do with price points, if you don't have multi voltage power supplies you can't sell into some countries/regions hence the switch mode one covers all bases.

There is nothing special in designing a linear power supply teddy boy just knows that there is a market out there to satisfy the placebo effect for some people.

 

[acalex]

You are both wide of the mark, the reason the external power supply is switch mode is due to obtaining approvals for all regions. It has nothing to do with price points, if you don't have multi voltage power supplies you can't sell into some countries/regions hence the switch mode one covers all bases.

There is nothing special in designing a linear power supply teddy boy just knows that there is a market out there to satisfy the placebo effect for some people.

So all the positive reviews I read and the people on this forum confirming the SQ improves by using an external and better PSU are victims of placebo effect? All of them?!?

 

[eggontoast]

So all the positive reviews I read and the people on this forum confirming the SQ improves by using an external and better PSU are victims of placebo effect? All of them?!?

There is only one way for you to determine whether or not this is the case and that is to try for yourself. Besides don't knock the placebo effect it can be as good as an actual upgrade.

 

[acalex]

So all the positive reviews I read and the people on this forum confirming the SQ improves by using an external and better PSU are victims of placebo effect? All of them?!?

There is only one way for you to determine whether or not this is the case and that is to try for yourself. Besides don't knock the placebo effect it can be as good as an actual upgrade.

You are right, unfortunately there is no way I can get an external PSU to make the comparison. In the meantime I think I will listen to the Rega DAC this week and compare with the Arcam. Might also check there if there is any external power supply I might try to compare. Would try to do a kind of blind testing to see if I can really feel any difference...

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

To recap, my objective is to get a better, clearer sound.

if you're decided to stuck with rDAC ignore my post. but if you're feeling adventurous I'd suggest to try out DACs that don't use any negative feedback in their analog output stage. there's a problem with such devices because you'll most likely not find them in your local hi-fi store. this is rather extremist approach to design hi-fi devices and majors will never ride on the wild side. however, if you're after extra amount of inner detail, ambient feel, deeper soundstage, better reproduction of instruments' timbres you should try feedbackless devices. I did and I'm not coming back to mainstream hi-fi any more. it's simply waste of money.

P.S. that's absolutely a good idea to upgrade the PSU in your rDAC. I think this idea with the bicycle battery sounds very interesting. there are also PSUs from KingRex, somewhat cheaper than from TeddyCap and I'd wager just as good.

 

[acalex]

To recap, my objective is to get a better, clearer sound.

if you're decided to stuck with rDAC ignore my post. but if you're feeling adventurous I'd suggest to try out DACs that don't use any negative feedback in their analog output stage. there's a problem with such devices because you'll most likely not find them in your local hi-fi store. this is rather extremist approach to design hi-fi devices and majors will never ride on the wild side. however, if you're after extra amount of inner detail, ambient feel, deeper soundstage, better reproduction of instruments' timbres you should try feedbackless devices. I did and I'm not coming back to mainstream hi-fi any more. it's simply waste of money.

P.S. that's absolutely a good idea to upgrade the PSU in your rDAC. I think this idea with the bicycle battery sounds very interesting. there are also PSUs from KingRex, somewhat cheaper than from TeddyCap and I'd wager just as good.

What's the difference? Thanks!

 

[philipjohnwright]

Better late than never - no broadband last night (thanks BT)

I was right, the Maplins model number is VN10L, and its £20. I bought it because I couldn't audition anything and figured that at £20 I had nothing to lose - sell it on or bin it if it made no improvement. But boy did it help things - all the usual attributes of a better power supply. The Teddy Pardo may well be better but obviously its a much bigger risk. Perhaps you could persuade the chaps at Audiocom in Pembrokeshire to let you borrow one (they import Teddy Pardo's whole range). But it is £239 from them, a bit more than getting it directly from Israel. And that bit more would buy you the Maplins options, perhaps negating the need for anything more than £20. That's sort of the logic I followed; for once it worked!

Perhaps I should get a second VN10L and hire it out at £5 a time for people to audition! (or is that a bit steep eggontoast?! )

 

[Anonymous]

Just ordered the Maplin PSU, will report back on my findings....

 

[acalex]

Just ordered the Maplin PSU, will report back on my findings....

Can't order the Maplin myself...I am in Belgium and they don't sell outside UK :wall:

Could you please tell me your impressions when getting the PSU from Maplin?
In the meantime I am going to audition the Rega and the Young DAC (if I can find one) which I can buy in Italy for 850GBP...(I am italian )

More on this...

 

[acalex]

Better late than never - no broadband last night (thanks BT)

I was right, the Maplins model number is VN10L, and its £20. I bought it because I couldn't audition anything and figured that at £20 I had nothing to lose - sell it on or bin it if it made no improvement. But boy did it help things - all the usual attributes of a better power supply. The Teddy Pardo may well be better but obviously its a much bigger risk. Perhaps you could persuade the chaps at Audiocom in Pembrokeshire to let you borrow one (they import Teddy Pardo's whole range). But it is £239 from them, a bit more than getting it directly from Israel. And that bit more would buy you the Maplins options, perhaps negating the need for anything more than £20. That's sort of the logic I followed; for once it worked!

Perhaps I should get a second VN10L and hire it out at £5 a time for people to audition! (or is that a bit steep eggontoast?! )

In Israel (on the teddypardo website) is 270 euro VAT exluded + 16 euro shipping..don't think is less expensive...it is actually less expensive in UK if it's 239 VAT included

 

[eggontoast]

Perhaps I should get a second VN10L and hire it out at £5 a time for people to audition! (or is that a bit steep eggontoast?!

You're not thinking big enough, buy 100 of them (£14.99 each) then buy some nice extruded aluminium enclosures. Put the Maplin power supply in the aluminium case and sell them for £250........ching ching

 

[chebby]

Russ Andrews RdacPak for Arcam rDAC. (£98.95)

Does not include IEC mains lead. (You are - of course - encouraged to select a Russ Andrews one.)

 

[acalex]

Russ Andrews RdacPak for Arcam rDAC. (£98.95)

Does not include IEC mains lead. (You are - of course - encouraged to select a Russ Andrews one.)

Of course !

But this is not linear mode...still switch mode...correct?

 

[SSM]

I USE AN RDAC WITH AN UPDATED POWER SUPPLY.

(snip: rest of helpful post)

As do I. Though not a Maplins but an affordable one of HK origins and it's the linear supply type.

The swap doesn't change the rDAC's tonal traits. Just gives more clarity to the lower registers and makes the rDAC more adept at handling energetic basslines IME. Several Prodigy tracks were handled better by the bolstered rDAC. With the stock psu, it sounded, for lack of a better adjective, 'wheezy' :roll: with that same music.

That's it. Me tuppence. I'm outta here.

SS

 

[acalex]

Russ Andrews RdacPak for Arcam rDAC. (£98.95)

Does not include IEC mains lead. (You are - of course - encouraged to select a Russ Andrews one.)

yes but this is still not a linear type PSU...correct?

 

[acalex]

So changing the PSU there is definitely more clarity in the sound...which is what I am looking for indeed. Even with a 20pounds PSU. Not sure this 250 pounds is worth that much...I think this will remain a mistery until I can't listen to it myself and compare...if I don't buy a better DAC in the meantime :cheers:

Hopefully this weekend I will compare the Arcam with the Rega...to assess already if there is an huge difference or not...or if simply I prefer the musicality of the Rega (as explained already I never tried anything else than the Arcam).

I might also try the Naim DAC as a comparison to see how far are those 2 DAC from the Naim......mmmm maybe better not otherwise I know I will finish for buying the Naim :wall:

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

What's the difference? Thanks!

OK. I'll try to keep it brief and simple as much as possible.

every DAC has to have an analog output stage to amplify weak analog sygnal post D/A conversion into something a line level preamp can wok with (usually 2V RMS). plethora of DACs (and all budget ones) use off-the-shelf industrial opams to do the job. opamps are solid state (transistor) based devices. transistors amplify different frequencies in not to much linear way, i.e. some frequencies are amplified more than others. this is not acceptable in audio where linear freq response is always sought. so one day someone came up with an idea how to solve this problem using negative feedback. negative feedback attenuates frequencies that are amplified too much. it should be noted here that the worse quality transformers used the less linear amplifying characteristics are.

how it works. original sygnal passes through amplifying stage where it's amplified. then it's most likely too much amplified so it needs to be attenuated therefore a part of the amplified signal, but out of phase to the original sygnal, is fed back into the amplifying stage to do the job. this solution is a brilliant idea if we deal with stable sygnals. however, musical sygnal is faaaar from being stable. therefore when the fed back sygnal gets into amplifying stage it tries to regulate something that it should not because new sygnal is now completely different from what it originaly was. all this of course happens very quickly but still, due to the nature of musical sygnal, feedback system is always lagging behind. in one word it distorts the output sygnal in that it makes it ever so slightly different from the original.

that doesn't happen when no feedback is used. what you get in return is better low level musical clues retrieval hence better ambience retrialval, better low level dynamics, truer timbre of instruments and voices and sounds, much bigger depth of sounstage (it has a lot to do with ambience retrieval), more stable and precise positioning of images in soundstage.

if you've got a feedbackless DAC (or other devices) you can be sure of one thing, that high quality, having more linear characteristics components were used in output stage because you can't go without feedback with basic components.

there's another big advantage of ditching feedback. if you use feedback you get a bonus in greatly reduced THD figures. every active electrical component (i.e. transistor) generates harmonics next to what originally was asked to amplify. usually it's second order harmonics and is quite large % of original sygnal. feedback reduces greatly this 2nd order harmonics but it introduces many other, low level harmonics (3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th...) in return. this is the main reason solid state devices sound "shrill" and "bright" compared to tube gear, where you usually get a lot of 2nd order harmonics and nothing else. human ears don't like high order harmonics, even low level.