Subwoofers...someone... help me with the figures please?!

[admin_exported]

Hi,

First post so please be gentle!

The background; I'm in the process of upgrading my trusty but aged AV gear. Out with the Kenwood KAV amp and Mission 760i Special Editions (Jamo centre, Canon rears), and in with a Yamaha RX-V1900 with two sets of Diamond 9.1s (front and surround L&R) and a 9.CS centre. The Missions might get used for Surround backs, or I might use the old Jamo centrre as I still feel it is a great neutral, crisp sound.

Anyway, the subwoofer is the problem due to lack of 'demo-ability' and confusion over figures. It's very difficult
to get good comparisons between subs - some manufacturers quote
frequency readings "down to xxHz - xxHz at a rate of 12dB / 24dB"
whilst others quote "xx Hz at -6dB or -3 dB"... all very confusing when
you can't demo them. Then to add to the confusion along come the reviews that suggest subs like the Wharfedale SW250 (which appeals
because of the design and gadgetry) get 5-star reviews for being deep
and powerful. Yet the figures suggest it's not a great AV subwoofer due to the lack of lower frequency. And no-one (in my price-range) produces charts showing how linear (or otherwise!) the frequency response actually is!

My short-list (for various reasons - mainly performancerice:looks) is...

Wharfedale SW250 (£260)

BK XLS200 (£280)

Kef PSW2500 (£200)

Acoustic Energy Aelite (£250)

I'd be really grateful for some thoughts on these choices - thanks.

 

[Andrew Everard]

The obvious choice for use with the Diamonds is the SW150: it's the one Wharfedale uses in its Diamond 9 HCP package, and that set-up is very well integrated and well-suited to use in a wide variety of rooms.

Only if you're trying to fill a very large room would I suspect that a bigger sub, such as the SW-250, would be needed - and then it might be prudent to be thinking about some larger speakers for the front left and right channels, such as the Diamond 9.4.

 

[harrisonaard1]

Sounds like it would be a bit of an unbalanced sound, but if your happy, that's all that matters! It certainly is confusing. Personally, I would go for the lowest frequency response at any db. (an industry standard would be handy). ALSO, ones with enough knobs on them to make the right adjustments. (They almost all do). Then ask your friendly Hi-Fi people to agree to you 'buying' one of them and taking each home and trying it yourself. I have done this in the past and the shop has been very agreeable. They make a sale after all. You could always be a bit cheeky and tell the shop that you don't like any and buy what you really DID like on the net for less. But that is REALLY cheeky, and you would be lost without your local friendly shop. Good luck. Remember to read the 'What Hi-Fi' setup guides.

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you for the fast reply. I had considered this sub, but rejected it as it looks to me that it just doesn't get deep enough for today's movies. There seems to be alot of sub-30Hz stuff going on in that .1 channel that it looks as though the 150 wouldn't cope with (Wharfedale quote down to 35Hz). If it gets a below 35Hz signal, surely the sub will just be throwing out harmonics rather than any real depth? I'm sure I'm asking for too much for my money!!? Is this another example of the figures not being of much use?

 

[Anonymous]

harrisonaard1:Personally, I would go for the lowest frequency response at any db. (an industry standard would be handy).

Thank you also harrisonaard1... this is the position I'm taking, but I want to know that the response is at least fairly flat. The only shops near me are either w-a-a-a-y to esoteric for my wallet, or a Sevenoaks that doesn't open when I'm not at work which really does limit demoing.

 

[Andrew Everard]

I think you'd have to spend a good deal more than the money your shortlist suggests to get much meaningful output down below 30Hz.

Something like the Sunfire HRS-8 will get you down nearer to 20Hz, but it's about £650, while the REL Studio 3 will get you to 10Hz - for £4500 or so.

 

[Anonymous]

... that's me! Champagne taste, can't even afford the Brita cartridges!!

Mr Everard; have you heard the BK XLS200... the stats look impressive (~17Hz at -6dB) I also found some test charts online somewhere and it looked surprisingly linear in its response. But stats is one thing - ears are another?!

 

[Andrew Everard]

I haven't, as to date I don't think we've had any BK subs for review.

When it comes to compact subwoofers, I still really rate this one at the affordable end of the market.

 

[Anonymous]

The monolith has strong output below down to around 20HZ with very low THD for £400 a bargin...

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the MJ link... another one to add to the comparison list!

Garethwd... Having 'lurked' here for some time I've noticed you're a keen promoter of the BK brand! Do you use your sw for both AV and music? The reason I ask is because your avatar leads me to think that you may not be listening to any uber-bass heavy synthetic music?! Is the BK 'fast' enough to cope with such stuff? I have very catholic tastes in music and I do like a bit of Ellen Allien alongside Bowie for example.

 

[Anonymous]

I no longer have the monolith as it wasnt really wife friendly but yes its very Good with music as well as movies And as for being a keen promoter of BK subs yes i am! ive owned a few subs starting with the MJ pro 50 then onto the MJ ref 200 followd by the monolith, The reason for love of BK is the £400 monolith compleatly and utterly mullerd the MJ ref 200(£750) for half the money deeper louder cleaner and faster!

 

[Anonymous]

AHH yes my taste in music is pretty varied ive some Jah wooble with pretty deep bass and some of ozric tenticles stuff goes fairly low too

 

[Anonymous]

garethwd:I no longer have the monolith as it wasnt really wife friendly

Hmmn... it is a little big. I think the only way my wife would accept that in the lounge would be if I let her sit on it while I played some particularly repetitive Aphex Twin.

So, you've heard the XLS 200? Obviously not the power of the Monolith.. close to the MJ Pro 55 perhaps?

 

[Anonymous]

No ive not heard the 200 or the mj pro 55! so couldnt really comment, but the looking at the specs the BK has nearly twice the power and that matters with a sealed box design.

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:

I haven't, as to date I don't think we've had any BK subs for review.

When it comes to compact subwoofers, I still really rate this one at the affordable end of the market.

I have this sub connected to my Onkyo TX-SR806 using the Neutrik high-level. This makes my av receiver not only very good in movies but in music as well. Highly recommended!

 

[Anonymous]

Hi liujol... did you have a sub before getting this one? I ask because, as with so many things, it's a comparison issue. I'm using a sub at the moment and it adds some nice warmth at the bottom of the scale, but it's not really 'subby' enough to do the 'cinema' bit.

 

[Anonymous]

surroundsteve:Hi liujol... did you have a sub before getting this one? I ask because, as with so many things, it's a comparison issue. I'm using a sub at the moment and it adds some nice warmth at the bottom of the scale, but it's not really 'subby' enough to do the 'cinema' bit.
Yes surroundsteve. In fact, I am using both of them. I put my old sub at the back of the sofa and the MJ near the floorstanders.