Sub-woofers - why?

[admin_exported]

I am asking this question purely out of interest: it has no connection with my own system.

As far as I can remember, in the 1980s and 1990s subs were generally regarded by audiophiles as being appropriate for few, if any, systems. Nowadays subs seem to be a popular and successful option, and not just in home cinema systems.

What has happened? Is it a question of today's technology allowing subs to work in lesser systems? Were the subs of 1980s and 1990s maligned? Or is there another explanation?

 

[matengawhat]

They are now far better built with far better connections and integration settings and allow a far more versatile setup that suits many listeners more than a conventional pair of floor standers

Don't get me wrong though the cheap ones are still just designed to shake a room with no subtlety

 

[the record spot]

Tetrist:
I am asking this question purely out of interest: it has no connection with my own system.

As far as I can remember, in the 1980s and 1990s subs were generally regarded by audiophiles as being appropriate for few, if any, systems. Nowadays subs seem to be a popular and successful option, and not just in home cinema systems.

What has happened? Is it a question of today's technology allowing subs to work in lesser systems? Were the subs of 1980s and 1990s maligned? Or is there another explanation?

From memory, REL and M&K were the only two sub manufacturers that ring any bells pre-multichannel home cinema days. Once we got multiple speakers systems, the concept that you could take the cinema home and "lifestyle" speaker systems with their slimline designs, subwoofers became so in vogue.

I'm yet to be convinced of their need in a well set-up 2-channel system and where full sized standard speakers are used, I'm not sure of their place in a multichannel set-up either.

 

[matengawhat]

most ppl don't want to have speakers large enough to get a proper bass responce in their front rooms so subs add a massive amount of depth to stereo recordings and is something i would recommend anyone try but only with a good fast sub

aslo for late night listening you just turn off - many modern amps lack bass adjustments

 

[Anonymous]

apparently the wilson benesch torus is one of the best subs to go with a 2.1 setup.
EDITED BY MODS for House Rules infringement

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Alec]

Well, why not?

 

[Andrew Everard]

Probably not the best person to ask, as I was an early convert after sitting next to REL founder Richard Lord at a Gramophone Awards dinner many years ago. A real gentleman and total music enthusiast, and AV/home cinema/call it what you will wasn't mentioned once - instead we talked at length about music, and what deep bass done right could do for it.

Before long I had a REL Stadium running in a very small flat, and though you couldn't hear it working - as in you couldn't isolate it from the rest of the sound - its contribution to the overall sound was unmistakable when you turned it off.

Back then I also heard very good systems combining Quad's old ESL63s with subwoofers, and that was very special, too.

Now, of course, we have music and films with dedicated '.1' LFE channels, so the subwoofer has its place, even though you can often do just as well with larger main stereo speakers, especially in small rooms.

However, I do have to say that most subs I hear are being run at far too high a level, and up to frequencies that should often be left to the main speakers - sub/sat systems excluded, of course. But then I guess if people have spent several hundred pounds, and often a lot more, on a subwoofer, they like to hear their money's worth.

 

[basshound]

Andrew Everard:
Probably not the best person to ask, as I was an early convert after sitting next to REL founder Richard Lord at a Gramophone Awards dinner many years ago. A real gentleman and total music enthusiast, and AV/home cinema/call it what you will wasn't mentioned once - instead we talked at length about music, and what deep bass done right could do for it.

Before long I had a REL Stadium running in a very small flat, and though you couldn't hear it working - as in you couldn't isolate it from the rest of the sound - its contribution to the overall sound was unmistakable when you turned it off.

Back then I also heard very good systems combining Quad's old ESL63s with subwoofers, and that was very special, too.

Now, of course, we have music and films with dedicated '.1' LFE channels, so the subwoofer has its place, even though you can often do just as well with larger main stereo speakers, especially in small rooms.

However, I do have to say that most subs I hear are being run at far too high a level, and up to frequencies that should often be left to the main speakers - sub/sat systems excluded, of course. But then I guess if people have spent several hundred pounds, and often a lot more, on a subwoofer, they like to hear their money's worth.

Can I take from that Andrew that you would be an advocate of a sub in a stereo system? What frequency crossover would you recommend?(with my system particularly) See how I slipped in a readers advice Q there.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Well, given that the +/-3dB response of the Ikons is claimed to go down to just under 40Hz, IIRC, I'd suggest some experimentation with an upper roll-off on the sub of around 50Hz, have a listen, then drop it a tad more

And if your wife is that understanding, I'd give up on any thoughts of chopping her in for a laptop and a DAC...

 

[jaxwired]

Andrew Everard: However, I do have to say that most subs I hear are being run at far too high a level, and up to frequencies that should often be left to the main speakers - sub/sat systems excluded, of course.

Yep. People just cannot resist turning them up too far. Pretty much destroys your chances of a natural and musical presentation. I personally like the idea of adding clean deep bass. I mean, there's no question that you could save some money this way. Typically a flagship stand mount and a good sub are significantly cheaper than a flagship tower.

But, I don't like the extra wires, I don't like the big ugly box. And they are hard to setup correctly. My experience with them is entirely with home theater enthusiasts and so I cringe at the thought of one. Home theater people have them turned up way too loud and they think it sounds good with music too. Its rubbish. Not only is it way too loud in proportion to the music, but it is usually grossly distorted at those levels, but the typical home theater guy has no idea that the distortion is not part of the music. Don't get me wrong, if it makes these people happy I'm all for it for them. Why not? But for anyone that can hear distortion and knows the difference, it's rubbish.

 

[matengawhat]

they aren't really that hard to setup - just takes a little time and patience - just like most speakers - also sub can deliver far greater, deeper bass than floorstanders and when setup properly blend seemlessly creating a massive soundstage that even at low volumes will outplay most speakers. I'd be deaf before my sub distorted - and i know music and never been happier! My sub is nearly the most versatile part of my setup