streaming vs cd

[MajorFubar]

Again BigH it ain't going to be any 'better' it can only 'equal' the original or be 'louder'.....

You misunderstood. If your own CD is scratched or damaged and your CDP has to use error-correction to fill in the gaps, than a rip can be better, because ripping-software exists which compares your rip against on online library of rips from the same CD, and corrects the errors without interpolation. Though whether that makes any audible difference in practise is another matter. Still, the potential theoretically exists to have rips that are better than [your own] original, and that's where BigH was coming from. And no, the difference won't affect the loudness one jot. No disrespect intended at all, because I've enjoyed our discussions, but you'd do worse than reading up about how digital audio works.

 

[andyjm]

Again BigH it ain't going to be any 'better' it can only 'equal' the original or be 'louder'.....

You misunderstood. If your own CD is scratched or damaged and your CDP has to use error-correction to fill in the gaps, than a rip can be better, because ripping-software exists which compares your rip against on online library of rips from the same CD, and corrects the errors without interpolation. Though whether that makes any audible difference in practise is another matter. Still, the potential theoretically exists to have rips that are better than [your own] original, and that's where BigH was coming from. And no, the difference won't affect the loudness one jot. No disrespect intended at all, because I've enjoyed our discussions, but you'd do worse than reading up about how digital audio works.

Not disagreeing with the Major, but just clarifying a point. A rip certainly has the potential to be more accurate than simply playing the CD. The ripping software can detect errors, however it tries to correct them by having another go at reading the CD. It can't correct the errors all by itself. The re-read can be very effective. The laser positioning hardware doesn't put the laser in exactly the same place for the second read, and the new position may stand a better chance of getting clean data.

A CD player only has one shot at reading the disc, there is no second chance if the data is read in error, so for this reason rip could be better.

Should also point out that minor errors can be corrected by both the CDP and the ripping process on the fly because of the clever coding used for CD data. Gross errors will swamp the error correction and will require the CDP to interpolate or mute depending on the size of the error. It is in this case that the rip can try again for a clean read.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Tell me what I'm trying to say.....

?

christ man, half the time you don't know what you're trying to say, how do you think we feel? *drinks*

Ok.....

I will say this though.

Data is data but there is a huge disparity with regards the equipment we use to feed that data to our amps.

Be it a smart phone upto a super pc with state of the heart sound card and software, ultimately the target is CD quality for stereo play back.

Its crazy when you think about it when you can pick up a CDplayer with a digital out for £100.......

Streaming services too. With Internet subscription required on top of service subscription too and then expected to pay a premium for CD quality again or hi res downloads as its also known.

Disclaimer: these are my personnel views and in no way should affect how you enjoy your music....thank you.

Thanks again Fenner Machine..... :HAPPY:

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Again BigH it ain't going to be any 'better' it can only 'equal' the original or be 'louder'.....

You misunderstood. If your own CD is scratched or damaged and your CDP has to use error-correction to fill in the gaps, than a rip can be better, because ripping-software exists which compares your rip against on online library of rips from the same CD, and corrects the errors without interpolation. Though whether that makes any audible difference in practise is another matter. Still, the potential theoretically exists to have rips that are better than [your own] original, and that's where BigH was coming from. And no, the difference won't affect the loudness one jot. No disrespect intended at all, because I've enjoyed our discussions, but you'd do worse than reading up about how digital audio works.

Technically it's not 'better' it's 'corrected' if you see what I mean?

 

[cheeseboy]

Data is data but there is a huge disparity with regards the equipment we use to feed that data to our amps.

and this is where the crossed wires came in I think. Yes, in to the amp (providing we are talking about a standard amp, not one with a dac built in for the sake of this discussion point). However, up to the dac stage, it's largely irrelivent what is used providing it's a bitperfect stream that is being fed to the dac.

 

[MajorFubar]

Be it a smart phone upto a super pc with state of the heart sound card and software, ultimately the target is CD quality for stereo play back.

Its crazy when you think about it when you can pick up a CDplayer with a digital out for £100.......

You're nearly right. The target is not 'CD quality which can be achieved with a £100 player', but the best SQ possible based on the limits of human hearing. A CD and any lossless streaming system of 16/44.1 (or higher) are capable of storing enough data to achieve that. But once the zeros and ones have been read off the CD, hard drive, or anything else you choose, it's down to the quality of the conversion electronics.

 

[Deleted member 116933]

So somebody please explain in laymans terms how am i going to improve on sound quality from cd?

Streaming servies like tidal offer better than CD quality but you have to have a stable connection all the time and it VERY EXPENSIVE.

I thought Tidal was cd quality? Not better than?

could very well be.....either way still high quality

 

[BigH]

So somebody please explain in laymans terms how am i going to improve on sound quality from cd?

Streaming servies like tidal offer better than CD quality but you have to have a stable connection all the time and it VERY EXPENSIVE.

I thought Tidal was cd quality? Not better than?

could very well be.....either way still high quality

Yes but has limited range of albums and you need fast stable internet and its £20pm. I'm sticking to 1 year free Deezer until that runs out.

 

[steve_1979]

Steve_1979 again with the if's, buts and maybes - this discussion is about real world applications.

Its not about ideal conditions. It's what people have in their homes - a 2001 bug ridden Dell desk top or a 1996 Apple Mac with decrepit sound card Tec.

I mean c'mon, the equipment plays a big part - like I've said the data may be the same but the kit is not.

IF a computer or phone can output a digital audio stream into a competent DAC then it will be a hifi quality source. Simple as that.

That is a very small 'if' too. Even very old or cheap computers can output a bit perfect digital stream. If it can't then something is broken somewhere in the hardware or software. It doesn't matter what sound card is being used either or even if it's just the onboard sound chip built into the motherboard it's totally irrelivent as it will be the external DAC which is converting the bit perfect digital information into an analogue wave.

A computer that can a output bit perfect data stream is totally normal thing for any computer to be able to do. What makes you think that a bog standard PC or modern phone is incapible of doing this simple feat?

 

[steve_1979]

... The OP asked about steaming using a PS3 and a Sony xperia z3 phone and why it didn't sound as good.

He asked about how to improve on sound quality from CD.

He has not yet replied to this thread

Hopefully he has not been scared off!

I was just thinking the same thing. The regular posters here (myself included as I am sometimes guilty too) should condsider the needs of a first time poster asking a question before they derail the thread into another one of these ongoing circular arguments.

Probably partly my fault too, but if I feel an OP is being fed lobbox I struggle to keep my mouth shut. When it comes to subjective topics, I might disagree with some people, but the posters' opinions are no less valid than mine. It's just opinion. Other topics, such as most things related to digital audio and digital storage, are not subjective, and some opinions are just simply plain wrong and misleading.

Fair point.

 

[steve_1979]

Steve_1979 again with the if's, buts and maybes - this discussion is about real world applications.

Its not about ideal conditions. It's what people have in their homes - a 2001 bug ridden Dell desk top or a 1996 Apple Mac with decrepit sound card Tec.

I mean c'mon, the equipment plays a big part - like I've said the data may be the same but the kit is not.

IF a computer or phone can output a digital audio stream into a competent DAC then it will be a hifi quality source. Simple as that.

That is a very small 'if' too. Even very old or cheap computers can output a bit perfect digital stream. If it can't then something is broken somewhere in the hardware or software. It doesn't matter what sound card is being used either or even if it's just the onboard sound chip built into the motherboard it's totally irrelivent as it will be the external DAC which is converting the bit perfect digital information into an analogue wave.

"In the real world" a computer that can a output bit perfect data stream is totally normal thing for any computer to be able to do. What makes you think that a bog standard PC or modern phone is incapible of doing this simple feat?

 

[steve_1979]

Where's the edit button gone?

I just tried to edit a post and quoted myself by mistake.

 

[MajorFubar]

Fair point.

Personally I find it very difficult to know when to keep out or say something. Confrontational threads put people off posting and take the image and tone of the forum down. But on the other hand, new members join here hoping to get sound objective advice (or objective advice about sound if you like ;-)), if that's at all possible for their particular problem. Let's say someone joins up and says 'hey I'm going to buy my first HiFi but I only listen CDs. Do I buy a CDP or rip my collection to a streamer, which sounds best?'. I just cannot sit on my hands and say bu--er all if he gets a response along the lines of 'streamers sound rubbish and your rips are still copies [ergo not as god as the original CD] so buy a CDP'. It's not in my genetic make-up.

 

[MajorFubar]

Where's the edit button gone?

I just tried to edit a post and quoted myself by mistake.

Good question I asked it a while back. (Link below) I await a reply from our overloads who are no doubt all back at home enjoying that after-hours activity called life.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/about-site/edit