streaming vs cd

[FennerMachine]

I mostly agree with Thompsonuxb on this subject and the way he presented his opinion.

I'm not going in to detail tonight, but some of you really need to reread what he actually said and not what you think he said.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

The 38dab does USB and RCA......

So I'm not sure why you'd think a stand alone DAC will magically improve things.

Well seeing that I have no idea how your daughter is connecting her iPhone to the Denon, nor the quality of your daughter's music files on her phone, nor the quality of the DAC circuitry in the Denon that its USB connection feeds through, I can't really comment. But bits are bits, and clearly it doesn't matter if the same 1s and 0s come from an iPhone lightning connector or from the surface of a CD. Beyond that, especially in all-in-one devices, there could be god knows how many variables. Which generally is why my preferred option is to use a computer feeding an outboard asynchronous DAC with lossless CD-quality rips, plugged into my regular amp. But other options are available.

Again I'm not arguing with your method. All you are doing is adding equ to play CD quality!

Sitting back and thinking about it - please sit back with me and think about it - does that make sense?

All that extra gubbins to get CD quality.....

Those marketing people...... *lol*

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I mostly agree with Thompsonuxb on this subject and the way he presented his opinion.

I'm not going in to detail tonight, but some of you really need to reread what he actually said and not what you think he said.

*good*

 

[MajorFubar]

Again I'm not arguing with your method. All you are doing is adding equ to play CD quality!

Sitting back and thinking about it - please sit back with me and think about it - does that make sense?

All that extra gubbins to get CD quality.....

Those marketing people...... *lol*

In a strange kind of way you and I are indeed arguing the same cause, but I went down the streaming route not because I succumbed to clever marketing, but because of the convenience of having my full library of nearly 650 CDs ripped losslessly to a NAS. Once you've made that giant step (and by God it IS a giant step to start with...several months of evenings of my life that I will not ever get back, ripping 600 CDs), there's no going back to the faff of playing CDs and the restriction of only being able to play my music where I have a CD player and 10kg of CDs. I even play my music in bed, straight from the NAS using my iPhone in a Sony bedside clock with a Lightning dock.

All that said...I have no issue whatsoever with people who like the tactility and sense of occasion associated with physical media like records and CDs. So long as they don't think my choice comes with some kind of SQ compromise.

 

[Andrewjvt]

but because of the convenience of having my full library of nearly 650 CDs ripped losslessly to a NAS. Once you've made that giant step (and by God it IS a giant step to start with...several months of evenings of my life that I will not ever get back, ripping 600 CDs), there's no going back to the faff of playing CDs and the restriction of only being able to play my music where I have a CD player and 10kg of CDs. I even play my music in bed, straight from the NAS using my iPhone in a Sony bedside clock with a Lightning dock. 
All that said...I have no issue whatsoever with people who like the tactility and sense of occasion associated with physical media like records and CDs. So long as they don't think my choice comes with some kind of SQ compromise.

I say: yes i agree there is no compromise on sq and then you can play all tour music on shuffle and never know whats comming next rather than having to play one cd at a time. Much better this way.

Btw you must have about 18 days of music with 600 cds

 

[steve_1979]

The Dunning-Kruger effect.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

The Dunning-Kruger effect.

Lol......how?

The Dunning-Krugar effect is a 'control' argument for educated dunces to keep a perceived upper hand.

Interesting.

 

[rainsoothe]

I mostly agree with Thompsonuxb on this subject and the way he presented his opinion.

I'm not going in to detail tonight, but some of you really need to reread what he actually said and not what you think he said.

so you too think that a FLAC rip of a CD sounds worse then the actualy CD, that the process of ripping makes it lose quality? 'Coz that's what he's saying. And then he's comparing a propper cd player with an iPhone DAC calling it a real world situation. Yes, a real world situation is that I'm driving a VW Golf and a dude with a Lamborghini will always beat me in a race, and an MP3 on a phone will sound worse then a CD in a hi-fi CD player. But he's arguing against the streaming services, whilst the rest of us were talking about HOME streaming - as in ripping your collection of CDs on a local NAS - which he says it's worse, because ripping to FLAC from CD, again, infers loss in sound quality. That's what he's saying - what do you think he's saying?

 

[MajorFubar]

Btw you must have about 18 days of music with 600 cds

650, including 18 albums I've manually 'ripped' from LP. iTunes reckons the total time is 28 days 4 hours 54 minutes and 50 seconds

 

[FennerMachine]

In Thompsonuxb's first post of this thread he covers both streaming services and CD ripping.

He said in part that:

If you rip your music from CD to hard drive its still a copy and dependent on the quality of your device....... Imo of course.

Which is true. It is a copy. Whether its MP3, FLAC, WAV, bit-4-bit PMC or whatever else, it is a copy.

The quality of decoding it to make an analogue signal from that copy is dependant on the quality of the device used.

Or do you believe that all DAC chips with whatever decoding algorithms and partnering electronics sound the same?

 

[cheeseboy]

In Thompsonuxb's first post of this thread he covers both streaming services and CD ripping.

He said in part that:

If you rip your music from CD to hard drive its still a copy and dependent on the quality of your device....... Imo of course.

not sure it's a bit of a mess. he only mentions copying from cd to hard drive and doesn't meantion anything about playback from a web based streaming service.

Which is true. It is a copy. Whether its MP3, FLAC, WAV, bit-4-bit PMC or whatever else, it is a copy.

Copy or not, it's going to be identical to the original that it was copied from in that respect. Unless it's say copying from an analogue source to a digital.

The quality of decoding it to make an analogue signal from that copy is dependant on the quality of the device used.

nobody has disputed that. In fact it's part and parcel of what I was pointing out to do with Thomsons testing...

 

[FennerMachine]

In Thompsonuxb's first post he says:

You can't......

Digital music services are rubbish a con and it's so blatantly obvious......lol

Unless its lossless it will not be identical. We all know this but the OP might not.

Thompsons testing was obviously a bit of fun. But it proves the point that many are agreeing to that the quality of steaming, whatever variety, depends on the quality of your equipment. Also directly relevant to the OP using a Sony phone.

The OP asked about steaming using a PS3 and a Sony xperia z3 phone and why it didn't sound as good.

He asked about how to improve on sound quality from CD.

He has not yet replied to this thread

Hopefully he has not been scared off!

 

[steve_1979]

... This idea any old PC, phone, tablet will deliver hifi all you need is a DAC is a myth...

Wrong.

If it can output a bit perfect digital audio stream into a DAC then provided the DAC is upto doing a good job (almost all are nowerdays) then it is a perfect source for hifi quality sound.

 

[steve_1979]

... The OP asked about steaming using a PS3 and a Sony xperia z3 phone and why it didn't sound as good.

He asked about how to improve on sound quality from CD.

He has not yet replied to this thread

Hopefully he has not been scared off!

I was just thinking the same thing. The regular posters here (myself included as I am sometimes guilty too) should condsider the needs of a first time poster asking a question before they derail the thread into another one of these ongoing circular arguments.

 

[Anderson]

Well it's kinda funny at the same time too.

Stay tuned for more, will Thompson grasp the basic conepts being disussed, find out after the break. . .

 

[steve_1979]

Well it's kinda funny at the same time too.

This is true.

 

[BigH]

In Thompsonuxb's first post of this thread he covers both streaming services and CD ripping.

He said in part that:

If you rip your music from CD to hard drive its still a copy and dependent on the quality of your device....... Imo of course.

not sure it's a bit of a mess. he only mentions copying from cd to hard drive and doesn't meantion anything about playback from a web based streaming service.

Which is true. It is a copy. Whether its MP3, FLAC, WAV, bit-4-bit PMC or whatever else, it is a copy.

Copy or not, it's going to be identical to the original that it was copied from in that respect. Unless it's say copying from an analogue source to a digital.

The quality of decoding it to make an analogue signal from that copy is dependant on the quality of the device used.

nobody has disputed that. In fact it's part and parcel of what I was pointing out to do with Thomsons testing...

Actually the copy canbe better than the original as you can compare it to others on the internet and have it corrected for any errors. So actually ripping cds can be better. I have done some and played them back and I did not notice any loss in sound quality but that is using exactly the same dac for cd and computer. With computers and iphones etc. its important to have the right settings, you can read about it on Apple forums if you want. So just plugging an iphone into an amp. is not really an great comparison as there are too many variables. The default settings on my soundcard were poor, changing them made so much difference esp. to headphones.

Feener looks like you misunderstood, thats why you should play it through the same Dac.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Fenner Machine, good job.......lol

 

[Thompsonuxb]

... This idea any old PC, phone, tablet will deliver hifi all you need is a DAC is a myth...

Wrong.

If it can output a bit perfect digital audio stream into a DAC then provided the DAC is upto doing a good job (almost all are nowerdays) then it is a perfect source for hifi quality sound.

Steve_1979 again with the if's, buts and maybes - this discussion is about real world applications.

Its not about ideal conditions. It's what people have in their homes - a 2001 bug ridden Dell desk top or a 1996 Apple Mac with decrepit sound card Tec.

I mean c'mon, the equipment plays a big part - like I've said the data may be the same but the kit is not.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

In Thompsonuxb's first post of this thread he covers both streaming services and CD ripping.

He said in part that:

If you rip your music from CD to hard drive its still a copy and dependent on the quality of your device....... Imo of course.

not sure it's a bit of a mess.  he only mentions copying from cd to hard drive and doesn't meantion anything about playback from a web based streaming service.

?

Which is true. It is a copy. Whether its MP3, FLAC, WAV, bit-4-bit PMC or whatever else, it is a copy.

Copy or not, it's going to be identical to the original that it was copied from in that respect.  Unless it's say copying from an analogue source to a digital.

The quality of decoding it to make an analogue signal from that copy is dependant on the quality of the device used.

nobody has disputed that.  In fact it's part and parcel of what I was pointing out to do with Thomsons testing...

?

Actually the copy canbe better than the original as you can compare it to others on the internet and have it corrected for any errors. So actually ripping cds can be better. I have done some and played them back and I did not notice any loss in sound quality but that is using exactly the same dac for cd and computer. With computers and iphones etc. its important to have the right settings, you can read about it on Apple forums if you want. So just plugging an iphone into an amp. is not really an great comparison as there are too many variables. The default settings on my soundcard were poor, changing them made so much difference esp. to headphones.

Feener looks like you misunderstood, thats why you should play it through the same Dac.

Again BigH it ain't going to be any 'better' it can only 'equal' the original or be 'louder'.....

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I mostly agree with Thompsonuxb on this subject and the way he presented his opinion.

I'm not going in to detail tonight, but some of you really need to reread what he actually said and not what you think he said.

so you too think that a FLAC rip of a CD sounds worse then the actualy CD, that the process of ripping makes it lose quality? 'Coz that's what he's saying. And then he's comparing a propper cd player with an iPhone DAC calling it a real world situation. Yes, a real world situation is that I'm driving a VW Golf and a dude with a Lamborghini will always beat me in a race, and an MP3 on a phone will sound worse then a CD in a hi-fi CD player. But he's arguing against the streaming services, whilst the rest of us were talking about HOME streaming - as in ripping your collection of CDs on a local NAS - which he says it's worse, because ripping to FLAC from CD, again, infers loss in sound quality. That's what he's saying - what do you think he's saying?

Now this is funny.

The comparison was between 2 smart phones of comparible quality the CD is a point of reference.

All outputs on these phones were compared.

Look at it like this a Ferarri F360 v a Porsche 911 being compared with a Bugatti Veron as a point of reference for argument sake.

With ride, equipment, drivability etc being compared not jus 0 to 60.

You guys.....I swear.

 

[cheeseboy]

Steve_1979 again with the if's, buts and maybes - this discussion is about real world applications.

Its not about ideal conditions. It's what people have in their homes - a 2001 bug ridden Dell desk top or a 1996 Apple Mac with decrepit sound card Tec.

I mean c'mon, the equipment plays a big part - like I've said the data may be the same but the kit is not.

actually no, that's exactly what we are saying... providing the back end is outputting untouched (bitperfect) to the same dac it's largely irrelivent what it is. (electrical interference noise aside) Heck you could store it on analogue tape for all the dac cares, so long as it's presented with the data in a format it understands.

I know what you are trying to say, but it's a different scenario to what we are saying. Crossed wires maybe?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Steve_1979 again with the if's, buts and maybes - this discussion is about real world applications.

Its not about ideal conditions. It's what people have in their homes - a 2001 bug ridden Dell desk top or a 1996 Apple Mac with decrepit sound card Tec.

I mean c'mon, the equipment plays a big part - like I've said the data may be the same but the kit is not.

actually no, that's exactly what we are saying... providing the back end is outputting untouched (bitperfect) to the same dac it's largely irrelivent what it is. (electrical interference noise aside) Heck you could store it on analogue tape for all the dac cares, so long as it's presented with the data in a format it understands.

I know what you are trying to say, but it's a different scenario to what we are saying.  Crossed wires maybe?

Tell me what I'm trying to say.....

 

[cheeseboy]

Tell me what I'm trying to say.....

christ man, half the time you don't know what you're trying to say, how do you think we feel? *drinks*

 

[MajorFubar]

... The OP asked about steaming using a PS3 and a Sony xperia z3 phone and why it didn't sound as good.

He asked about how to improve on sound quality from CD.

He has not yet replied to this thread

Hopefully he has not been scared off!

I was just thinking the same thing. The regular posters here (myself included as I am sometimes guilty too) should condsider the needs of a first time poster asking a question before they derail the thread into another one of these ongoing circular arguments.

Probably partly my fault too, but if I feel an OP is being fed lobbox I struggle to keep my mouth shut. When it comes to subjective topics, I might disagree with some people, but the posters' opinions are no less valid than mine. It's just opinion. Other topics, such as most things related to digital audio and digital storage, are not subjective, and some opinions are just simply plain wrong and misleading.