Still Planning on Next Year - Cyrus vs. Roksan vs. Naim?

[Benedict_Arnold]

Absolutely no chance to audtion here in Texas, as before. best I could do is try to do so on one of my increasingly less frequent trips back to the UK (my parents live quite near Naim's HQ in Salisbury...)

Budget GBP 2000 (up or down) per box. Streamer plus pre-amp plus power-amp(s). Speakers first choice would be ProAc Studio 140 Mark 2, but open to suggestions to better suit the source boxes.

Comparisons please?

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

PS IF WHF fancies flying over with a container load of stuff for me to demo, I have a spare bedroom or two and the weather's not bad, except in January and February when it might dip into the fifties...

 

[Al ears]

Absolutely no chance to audtion here in Texas, as before. best I could do is try to do so on one of my increasingly less frequent trips back to the UK (my parents live quite near Naim's HQ in Salisbury...)

Budget GBP 2000 (up or down) per box. Streamer plus pre-amp plus power-amp(s). Speakers first choice would be ProAc Studio 140 Mark 2, but open to suggestions to better suit the source boxes.

Comparisons please?

Do Roksan do a streamer???

Presumed you were looking at a one-make solution. I guess I am wrong.

Not interested in the new Quad After a then?

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Absolutely no chance to audtion here in Texas, as before. best I could do is try to do so on one of my increasingly less frequent trips back to the UK (my parents live quite near Naim's HQ in Salisbury...)

Budget GBP 2000 (up or down) per box. Streamer plus pre-amp plus power-amp(s). Speakers first choice would be ProAc Studio 140 Mark 2, but open to suggestions to better suit the source boxes.

Comparisons please?

Do Roksan do a streamer???

Presumed you were looking at a one-make solution. I guess I am wrong.

Not interested in the new Quad After a then?

Prefer a one-brand solution, yes. Less remotes that way for starters and component mix'n'match is best left to guys who own hifi shoppes.

Didn't realise Roksan don't make a separate DAC or streamer, that might put them out of contention.

As for Quad, the Artera system is a two box only setup (I think), and I would prefer separate streamer, DAC, pre-amp (or combined DAC and pre-amp) and power amps, so that, if necessary I can buy one box at a time, over time.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

PS Being able to bi-amp (either two stereo amps feeding left and right highs and lows respectively) or twin mono would be good as well, which is kind of leaning towards the Cyrus option, but I'm still open to suggestions.

And to tempt the WHF journos further, I'll throw in all the fermented horse pee and distilled cactus juice you can drink....

 

[Al ears]

Absolutely no chance to audtion here in Texas, as before. best I could do is try to do so on one of my increasingly less frequent trips back to the UK (my parents live quite near Naim's HQ in Salisbury...)

Budget GBP 2000 (up or down) per box. Streamer plus pre-amp plus power-amp(s). Speakers first choice would be ProAc Studio 140 Mark 2, but open to suggestions to better suit the source boxes.

Comparisons please?

Do Roksan do a streamer???

Presumed you were looking at a one-make solution. I guess I am wrong.

Not interested in the new Quad After a then?

Prefer a one-brand solution, yes. Less remotes that way for starters and component mix'n'match is best left to guys who own hifi shoppes.

Didn't realise Roksan don't make a separate DAC or streamer, that might put them out of contention.

As for Quad, the Artera system is a two box only setup (I think), and I would prefer separate streamer, DAC, pre-amp (or combined DAC and pre-amp) and power amps, so that, if necessary I can buy one box at a time, over time.

I am with you. Roksan is out then.

I was going to suggest Primare also but their streamer is integrated with DAC..... back to the drawing board.

Having thought about it I think you're only option may be Maim after all.

They have ND5-XS, Dac, NAC preamp, and power amps in your price range.

 

[Al ears]

Naim also have mono power amps to add to my previous list.

Only saying because I'm not a fan of Cyrus, but horses for courses.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Naim also have mono power amps to add to my previous list.

Only saying because I'm not a fan of Cyrus, but horses for courses.

Didn't have Primaire on the list.

Not too worried if the streamer, DAC and pre-amp are in one box. Rather, I would prefer the CD transport to be in a separate box, as being mechanical it's the most likely to give trouble (and I have a dugrea in mekanical injunearing sow their), not to mention CD transports are not needed given i rip all my CDs to FLACs as soon as I get them home these days.

What I'm more interested in is the sound. Cyrus is fantastically detailed, almost clinical, and can sound a little "thin" as a result.. I paired my Cyrus X system bought in 2009-2010 in Scotchland with ProAc Studio 140 speakers and this balanced things out to a great net result.

However, I'm starting from scratch, so all options are open, within reason. Show me something that can eat Kate Bush's "Eat the Music" and spit out all the detail and rythm, and let me hear fingers squeaking on acoustic guitars, and knock the house down when I crank up "Paranoid" or some Bach organ music and pick apart a Neal Peart drum solo and I'll buy it.

 

[Deleted member 116933]

Naim also have mono power amps to add to my previous list.

Only saying because I'm not a fan of Cyrus, but horses for courses.

Didn't have Primaire on the list.

Not too worried if the streamer, DAC and pre-amp are in one box. Rather, I would prefer the CD transport to be in a separate box, as being mechanical it's the most likely to give trouble (and I have a dugrea in mekanical injunearing sow their), not to mention CD transports are not needed given i rip all my CDs to FLACs as soon as I get them home these days.

What I'm more interested in is the sound. Cyrus is fantastically detailed, almost clinical, and can sound a little "thin" as a result.. I paired my Cyrus X system bought in 2009-2010 in Scotchland with ProAc Studio 140 speakers and this balanced things out to a great net result.

However, I'm starting from scratch, so all options are open, within reason. Show me something that can eat Kate Bush's "Eat the Music" and spit out all the detail and rythm, and let me hear fingers squeaking on acoustic guitars, and knock the house down when I crank up "Paranoid" or some Bach organ music and pick apart a Neal Peart drum solo and I'll buy it.

hi benedict

l can vouch for the naim streamers in your case I would either go for the uniti 2 or the super uniti with a separate naim CD player. I went against the norm and paired it with a pair revel m106 by harman which you should have no trouble finding in the states. These actually go very well with the naim. I'll later use the uniti2 as a CD player/ preamp paired with a nap 200/50 which will be awesome. Though I'll have to wait a few years for that. To be honest the Cyrus can't touch the naim for usability its just so well thought through. And naim has intergrated tidal in very well. though the Cyrus did sound good espeally mono blocked but starts turning into a lot of boxes. Hope that help a little on the naim front.

 

[lindsayt]

The expression "Coals to Newcastle" comes to mind.

Why are you looking only at British brands of hi-fi when there are so many great sounding American and Japanese components available in Texas?

 

[drummerman]

Naim also have mono power amps to add to my previous list.

Only saying because I'm not a fan of Cyrus, but horses for courses.

Didn't have Primaire on the list.

Not too worried if the streamer, DAC and pre-amp are in one box. Rather, I would prefer the CD transport to be in a separate box, as being mechanical it's the most likely to give trouble (and I have a dugrea in mekanical injunearing sow their), not to mention CD transports are not needed given i rip all my CDs to FLACs as soon as I get them home these days.

What I'm more interested in is the sound. Cyrus is fantastically detailed, almost clinical, and can sound a little "thin" as a result.. I paired my Cyrus X system bought in 2009-2010 in Scotchland with ProAc Studio 140 speakers and this balanced things out to a great net result.

However, I'm starting from scratch, so all options are open, within reason. Show me something that can eat Kate Bush's "Eat the Music" and spit out all the detail and rythm, and let me hear fingers squeaking on acoustic guitars, and knock the house down when I crank up "Paranoid" or some Bach organ music and pick apart a Neal Peart drum solo and I'll buy it.

hi benedict

l can vouch for the naim streamers in your case I would either go for the uniti 2 or the super uniti with a separate naim CD player. I went against the norm and paired it with a pair revel m106 by harman which you should have no trouble finding in the states. These actually go very well with the naim. I'll later use the uniti2 as a CD player/ preamp paired with a nap 200/50 which will be awesome. Though I'll have to wait a few years for that. To be honest the Cyrus can't touch the naim for usability its just so well thought through. And naim has intergrated tidal in very well. though the Cyrus did sound good espeally mono blocked but starts turning into a lot of boxes. Hope that help a little on the naim front.

That would be the Lyric then ...

 

[Andrewjvt]

Hegel they will do all you need with high end sound qualities. Hegel h160 for £2300 and hegel h360 for £3400 thats all youd need.

If naim is what your after then the superuniti would be the same thing but slightly different presentation

Then there is the cyrus lyric and im not sure how that ine stacks up but i bet its very good

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

The expression "Coals to Newcastle" comes to mind.

Why are you looking only at British brands of hi-fi when there are so many great sounding American and Japanese components available in Texas?

Same reason I drive an AMG Mercedes not a Corvette or a Nissan.

American stuff is either highly over-rated or extortionately priced, and try getting an OBJECTIVE review out of any of the American hifi mages. They're so sh*t scred of saying anything bad about anything they'd tell you your granddad's gramophone sounds just as good as the latest and greatest in casse they get sued.

Japanese? Might as well just trundle off to Bestbuy (think American version of Comet, only still solvent) and buy any old Panaroteyamasony box, right?

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

The contenders so far:

Cyrus - Stream X Signature plus DAC-XP Signature plus 2 x Mono-X300 Signatures

Naim - NAC-N272 plus NAP300

Roksan - out because they don't do a streamer

Hegel - H360 plus perhaps an H20 power amp later if I find I really need it

Primaire PRE60 plus H60 power amp plus perhaps a second H60 if I really need it.

The Cyrus is the only one that needs a separate streamer, and the Naim doesn't seem to offer bi-amping or even bi-wiring. SO it may come down to Hegel or Primaire, which weren't even on my list to begin with....

Primaire is ahead by a nose on looks and expandability right now, I guess I'll have to arrange an audition, sorry, trip home to see the family and compare the two, but any observations on the sound would be welcome

 

[plastic penguin]

Absolutely no chance to audtion here in Texas, as before. best I could do is try to do so on one of my increasingly less frequent trips back to the UK (my parents live quite near Naim's HQ in Salisbury...)

Budget GBP 2000 (up or down) per box. Streamer plus pre-amp plus power-amp(s). Speakers first choice would be ProAc Studio 140 Mark 2, but open to suggestions to better suit the source boxes.

Comparisons please?

Agree with Al - ProAcs and Primare are brilliant combo, according to reviews. The newer Creek 100A could also be a good match for ProAcs.

 

[Al ears]

The contenders so far:

Cyrus - Stream X Signature plus DAC-XP Signature plus 2 x Mono-X300 Signatures

Naim - NAC-N272 plus NAP300

Roksan - out because they don't do a streamer

Hegel - H360 plus perhaps an H20 power amp later if I find I really need it

Primaire PRE60 plus H60 power amp plus perhaps a second H60 if I really need it.

The Cyrus is the only one that needs a separate streamer, and the Naim doesn't seem to offer bi-amping or even bi-wiring. SO it may come down to Hegel or Primaire, which weren't even on my list to begin with....

Primaire is ahead by a nose on looks and expandability right now, I guess I'll have to arrange an audition, sorry, trip home to see the family and compare the two, but any observations on the sound would be welcome

Lost you at the Naim don't do biamping bit, why do they make mono power amps then?

(Not much experience with newer Naim kit mind you).

P.S.. If most stuff ripped do you really need a CD player? I guess sometimes they just come as part of the DAC.

Good choice of the Primare with plug in multimedia player board. I have used Primare pre-power in the past and was very imressed with sound qualities and also build quality.

By H60 do you mean Primare A60? That's one expensive power amp!

Thought you were aiming around the 2000 mark? That would be their A32 range.

Surely they cannot be that much cheaper in Texas...

PPS. I see the A60 preamp now has the multimedia board built in.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Lost you at the Naim don't do biamping bit, why do they make mono power amps then?

(Not much experience with Naim kit mid you).

Dunno. Couldn't figure out how you could "chain" the amps together looking at their website, and their manuals and wiring diagrams are about as lucid as a plate of spaghetti bolognese.

Maybe they make mono power amps to use with other peoples' pre-amps?

Maybe I'm just wrong - if so would someone please put me right?

P.S.. If most stuff ripped do you really need a CD player? I guess sometimes they just come as part of the DAC.

No. I really don't need a CD transport, which is why I didn't deliberately include any in my lists.

[Quote = Al ears]

Good choice of the Primare with plug in multimedia player board. I have used Primare pre-power in the past and was very imressed with sound qualities and also build quality.

By H60 do you mean Primare A60? That's one expensive power amp!

Thought you were aiming around the 2000 mark? That would be their A32 range.

Surely they cannot be that much cheaper in Texas...

PPS. I see the A60 preamp now has the multimedia board built in.

[/quote]

Haven't checked prices yet, but for European imported stuff we usually pay a pretty high price dividend if bought from US dealers / distributors due to their (not small) mark-ups and also the import duties. On the flip side, sales tax here in Texas is only 8.5% and if you buy from someone in another State you don't have to pay that either. I also suspect I know a dealer who will do me a VAT free sale in the UK if getting on a 747 with just a toothbrush and a passport proves cheaper.

That having been said, I might have to trim my cloth a little, either to the A32, or possibly get one A34.2, then add a second, bridged, one later - kind of buying a Cyrus X-power then adding a second one, rather than going for two Mono-X units from the get-go.

Anyway, what ARE the UK MSRPs for Primaire gear?

And how does their gear sound? Remember, I'm going to have to pretty much buy this stuff blind, sorry, deaf...

 

[Deleted member 116933]

Naim also have mono power amps to add to my previous list.

Only saying because I'm not a fan of Cyrus, but horses for courses.

Didn't have Primaire on the list.

Not too worried if the streamer, DAC and pre-amp are in one box. Rather, I would prefer the CD transport to be in a separate box, as being mechanical it's the most likely to give trouble (and I have a dugrea in mekanical injunearing sow their), not to mention CD transports are not needed given i rip all my CDs to FLACs as soon as I get them home these days.

What I'm more interested in is the sound. Cyrus is fantastically detailed, almost clinical, and can sound a little "thin" as a result.. I paired my Cyrus X system bought in 2009-2010 in Scotchland with ProAc Studio 140 speakers and this balanced things out to a great net result.

However, I'm starting from scratch, so all options are open, within reason. Show me something that can eat Kate Bush's "Eat the Music" and spit out all the detail and rythm, and let me hear fingers squeaking on acoustic guitars, and knock the house down when I crank up "Paranoid" or some Bach organ music and pick apart a Neal Peart drum solo and I'll buy it.

hi benedict

l can vouch for the naim streamers in your case I would either go for the uniti 2 or the super uniti with a separate naim CD player. I went against the norm and paired it with a pair revel m106 by harman which you should have no trouble finding in the states. These actually go very well with the naim. I'll later use the uniti2 as a CD player/ preamp paired with a nap 200/50 which will be awesome. Though I'll have to wait a few years for that. To be honest the Cyrus can't touch the naim for usability its just so well thought through. And naim has intergrated tidal in very well. though the Cyrus did sound good espeally mono blocked but starts turning into a lot of boxes. Hope that help a little on the naim front.

That would be the Lyric then ...

I had aplay with one and still dont think its as user friendly.... Not to mention its a little ugly and dosn't have the upgrade path of the naim system. But hey ho each to there own.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

I'm seeing prices of about GBP3,000 incl. VAT for the Pre32 including the media board, and GBP1750 incl. VAT for the A34.2. The A32 is GBP3,300 incl. VAT, roughly the cost of two A34.2 units. Excluding VAT these prices are GBP2,500, GBP1458 and GBP2,750. A flight to the UK will cost me about GBP1200, so that's a total cost of about GBP5,400 or USD8,400 plus import duties at this end, which, as far as I can make out, are a whopping 35%!

So total budget for a Pre32 and a single A34.2 comes to GBP 5,400 (USD 8,400) plus the flight. If I can get them both for under $10,000 (GBP6,400 roughly) here I'll be saving money and not have to endure two 10-hours flights.

And then I need speakers.

Good job I gave up drinking and giving up smoking is on the cards for my 50th birthday next month....

 

[Al ears]

I'm seeing prices of about GBP3,000 incl. VAT for the Pre32 including the media board, and GBP1750 incl. VAT for the A34.2. The A32 is GBP3,300 incl. VAT, roughly the cost of two A34.2 units. Excluding VAT these prices are GBP2,500, GBP1458 and GBP2,750. A flight to the UK will cost me about GBP1200, so that's a total cost of about GBP5,400 or USD8,400 plus import duties at this end, which, as far as I can make out, are a whopping 35%!

So total budget for a Pre32 and a single A34.2 comes to GBP 5,400 (USD 8,400) plus the flight. If I can get them both for under $10,000 (GBP6,400 roughly) here I'll be saving money and not have to endure two 10-hours flights.

And then I need speakers.

Good job I gave up drinking and giving up smoking is on the cards for my 50th birthday next month....

You'll need to give up a kidney too if you want the A60's as they are £6500 a pop!

Happy birthday in advance.

With those sort of import duties I can see why most Yanks tend to stick with home-grown kit.

Sound quality is always very difficult to describe but I would put it down as neutral to maybe slightly warm side of neutral, accurate and not clinically analytical if you can actually say that about an amp (to me that's the source deciding that...). However compared to Cyrus stuff I've heard it is not as 'forward' or 'bright', it just seemed to be more tonally accurate and pleasant to listen to for long periods.

Personally I found the Cyrus stuff emphasised the top tonal range a bit much independent of which speakers it played through.

I haven't heard much modern Naim kit so cannot really help you with a comparison.

There are plenty of reviews online, and for once, I tend to agree with most of them. Perhaps if you read these it may give you an insite into what I mean. Some of my friends described my Primare set-up as 'Quad-like' but I am not exactly sure what they meant by that although the all said it was very good indeed.

As you have found it is Primare ...... without the 'i'.

PS: if you fly over don't forget to add in the cost for excess-baggage weight.

 

[lindsayt]

The expression "Coals to Newcastle" comes to mind.

Why are you looking only at British brands of hi-fi when there are so many great sounding American and Japanese components available in Texas?

Same reason I drive an AMG Mercedes not a Corvette or a Nissan.

American stuff is either highly over-rated or extortionately priced, and try getting an OBJECTIVE review out of any of the American hifi mages. They're so sh*t scred of saying anything bad about anything they'd tell you your granddad's gramophone sounds just as good as the latest and greatest in casse they get sued.

Japanese? Might as well just trundle off to Bestbuy (think American version of Comet, only still solvent) and buy any old Panaroteyamasony box, right?

I totally disagree.

If you ever get the chance, listen to classic Altec, Bozak, EV, JBL, Klipsch, or modern Wilson speakers.

Listen to a Korneff amp with suitable speakers.

Listen to upper end Accuphase, Akai, Fidelity Research / Ikeda, JVC, Micro Seiki, Pioneer, Onkyo Integra, Sansui, Sony, Technics, Yamaha equipment. The properly engineered stuff. Not the plasticky rubbish.

Keep an open mind and you will find that your car analogy falls down. Totally.

Cars are cars. Hi-fi is hi-fi.

And it's not just US magazines that are reluctant to criticise anything they review.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

To Al:

List prices here are as follows:

Pre32 Plain $2750 (about GBP 1763)

Pre32 with the media board $4500 (about GBP 2885)

A34.2 $3000 (about GBP1923)

A32 $5000 (about GBP 3205)

All of the above would be sales tax free as I will be buying them from out of state, so you can compare prices directly with the including VAT prices in the UK for the amount of cash I actually have to shell out.

So a Pre32 with the media board and one A34.2 (to start with) will cost me $7500 or about 5000 quid in round numbers, a Pre32 and an A32 $9500 (or about 6300 quid in round numbers). No too bad methinks.

The Pre60 and A60 are both $10,000 a pop. We can but dream. And believe me when I tell you NO-ONE would want my kidneys or liver....

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

To Lindsay:

Erm, I HAVE a pair of Klipsch speakers, Reference II floor standers, and they're RUBBISH compared to my much missed ProAcs. Too quiet, no oomph (mainly because the woofers are only 5 1/2 inches in diameter, I grant you), and they get confused quite easily. They were a gift from 'er indoors, otherwise they would have been on EBay a long long time ago.

Before that I had a pair of big Boston Acoustics, can't remember which model, but they were floorstanders with powered subwoofers in the bases. They were about as subtle as a "special delivery" from a low flying B-52.

As for the other brands you mention, I note they're ALL Japanese. They may be great, and I've got three Onkyo receivers and am planning on replacing one of them with a Yamaha unit before (or for) Chirstmas.

As for American stuff, actually ffinding someone who sells them around here is just about inmpossible. I've got four or five Bestbuys within a 10 mile radius, but I don't think there's a boutique hifi dealer left in the whole of Houston.

And yes, cars are cars and hifi is hifi, I was making an analogy. American cars like Corvettes look great, go fast in a straight line and are relatively cheap. But they won't go round corners like a European sports car and bits tend to fall off them. A Toyota Corolla will get you to work, but you'll have no fun doing it. And try bragging to your mates about your new Corolla. Whereas my AMG not only goes like stuff off a shovel all the way up to its governed 155 mph top speed, but for a car that weighs 2 tonnes it actually handles remarkably well, and nothing has fallen off it yet. And it's an AMG, one of only 243 of the particular model that were imported into the US, so bragging rights are good.

 

[lindsayt]

I did say classic Klipsch. Reference II's are not classic Klipsch. Klipschorns are classic Klipsch.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-KLIPSCH-KLIPSCHORN-PAIR-OF-SPEAKERS-EX-WORKING-CONDITION-FREE-SHIP-/111763300306?hash=item1a059c9fd2:g:N4QAAOSwu4BV1hHS

Just as VOTT's and Model 19's are classic Altecs:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/24HR-SALE-Altec-Lansing-VOICE-OF-THE-THEATER-Loudspeaker-Cabinets-15-Woofers-/201452085363?hash=item2ee77ae073:g:A40AAOSwwbdWGaok

 

[Mike_Schmidt]

I have a cyrus kit Pre2 DacQx and psx-r with Stereo 200 and there CDT into a set of Proac studio 118's and in about 2 weeks 148's and enjoy the sound. I find this generation compared to old which I have had alot more refined not as cynical and not as lean. Im glad I upgraded the Dac to the Qx right off the bat its pretty expensive but worth it.