Still no blinded tests

[Romulus]

I blame it on all this 'Streaming' nonsense. Reviews now are on items such as apps, smartphones, tidal, airplay, docks, tv's, earphones. What HiFi should change its name to What Gadgets - yuuuuch..!

Strictly speaking modern hifi is gadgets. And you aware Linn, for example, ONLY does streaming now? It's just the nature of the beast. WHF could happily change its name to What Gadgets, but since their focus is still on audio - if you read their smartphone reviews you'll glean that. If I have the time, I enjoy all the hifi rags i.e. WHF, Hifi News etc. They're all good to me.

I find most of the criticisms here nitpicking.

As for blind testing - my opinion is that expectation bias is impossible to eradicate, let me explain:

Let's say a reviewer brings in a budget speaker like B&W 685s2. He then asks 2 or so other reviewers to blind test it. They may love or loathe it. Then, for a fair rating, the knowing reviewer has to reveal the price of the speaker. then ultimately the make of the product.

So are you absolutely sure subjectivity won't creep in at the final rating point?

I sort of imagined I would get a response as above in relation to streaming and so called advancement of technology in Audio. Yet somehow the interest/excitement is being eradicated from HiFi for the sake of practical use. Why stop at streaming; make HiFi invisible to the naked eye in the rooms so that we can only hear it but not see it. Its like making all future cars in UK electric and the top speed of all cars will be precisely 70mph. Bye bye to all car enthusiasts the future world will be correct and practical and so grey..!

 

[Gazzip]

When will we ever get tests of hi-fi systems blinded?

I bet the reviewers Whathifi wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 500 quid unit and a 15000 quid unit.

Really, don't we want to know what sounds best, regardless of the price?

Sorry to defecate on your chips, but back in 2009/10 What Hi-fi had a 'Big Question', where they invited 3 people each month to their Teddington HQ to review 2-channel/multi-channel/TVs etc.

I was invited to review stereo speakers/amps. And yes, it was a blind test: They had a curtain over the said amps: Roksan Kandy K2, Cyrus 8VS2... and they tested two speakers: Ruark Sabre IIIs and ATC SCM11s.

And yes (again), we all could tell the difference.

Telling the difference is different from saying which sounds best, and which is more expensive. Moreover what was the purpose of the test.

How was the match making done? Obviously the better Speakers will sound best if driven properly by any amp.

Things are even more competitively priced compared to 7yrs ago. Do the same test now you will struggle to distinguish which is which or sounds better. Of course all things being equal.

Good grief!

The OP was having a 'pop' at What hi-fi for not having blind tests? right or wrong? So I just pointed out that they do have blind tests (can't see why they don't now, and how would you know?)

You're wrong! if you get two price compatible speakers on 2017, as they were back in 2009, how is that different? I'm not comparing - or even suggesting - a 2009 speaker or amp with a good quality current model. I'm only suggesting that blind tests have been done. And as far as I know they could be today.

FWIW, I personally loved the Ruarks with K2, however, in terms of an instant impact the Cyrus and ATCs won the day.

Cyrus partnered with ATC???!! Bejesus! - Instant impact as the paint came off the walls or as in your bones shattered. Throw in a Chord DAC and the US military would be interested in buying such a setup. *smile*

 

[Native_bon]

When will we ever get tests of hi-fi systems blinded?

I bet the reviewers Whathifi wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 500 quid unit and a 15000 quid unit.

Really, don't we want to know what sounds best, regardless of the price?

Sorry to defecate on your chips, but back in 2009/10 What Hi-fi had a 'Big Question', where they invited 3 people each month to their Teddington HQ to review 2-channel/multi-channel/TVs etc.

I was invited to review stereo speakers/amps. And yes, it was a blind test: They had a curtain over the said amps: Roksan Kandy K2, Cyrus 8VS2... and they tested two speakers: Ruark Sabre IIIs and ATC SCM11s.

And yes (again), we all could tell the difference.

Telling the difference is different from saying which sounds best, and which is more expensive. Moreover what was the purpose of the test.

How was the match making done? Obviously the better Speakers will sound best if driven properly by any amp.

Things are even more competitively priced compared to 7yrs ago. Do the same test now you will struggle to distinguish which is which or sounds better. Of course all things being equal.

Good grief!

The OP was having a 'pop' at What hi-fi for not having blind tests? right or wrong? So I just pointed out that they do have blind tests (can't see why they don't now, and how would you know?)

You're wrong! if you get two price compatible speakers on 2017, as they were back in 2009, how is that different? I'm not comparing - or even suggesting - a 2009 speaker or amp with a good quality current model. I'm only suggesting that blind tests have been done. And as far as I know they could be today.

FWIW, I personally loved the Ruarks with K2, however, in terms of an instant impact the Cyrus and ATCs won the day.

 

Cyrus partnered with ATC???!! Bejesus! - Instant impact as the paint came off the walls or as in your bones shattered. Throw in a Chord DAC and the US military would be interested in buying such a setup. *smile*

Oh well. Smiles

 

[Native_bon]

All am saying PP, we need new standards for testing cause Hi-fi & tech really fast moving.

 

[manicm]

I blame it on all this 'Streaming' nonsense.  Reviews now are on items such as apps, smartphones, tidal, airplay, docks, tv's, earphones.  What HiFi should change its name to What Gadgets - yuuuuch..!

Strictly speaking modern hifi is gadgets. And you aware Linn, for example, ONLY does streaming now? It's just the nature of the beast. WHF could happily change its name to What Gadgets, but since their focus is still on audio - if you read their smartphone reviews you'll glean that. If I have the time, I enjoy all the hifi rags i.e. WHF, Hifi News etc. They're all good to me.

I find most of the criticisms here nitpicking. 

As for blind testing - my opinion is that expectation bias is impossible to eradicate, let me explain:

Let's say a reviewer brings in a budget speaker like B&W 685s2. He then asks 2 or so other reviewers to blind test it. They may love or loathe it. Then, for a fair rating, the knowing reviewer has to reveal the price of the speaker. then ultimately the make of the product.

So are you absolutely sure subjectivity won't creep in at the final rating point?

I sort of imagined I would get a response as above in relation to streaming and so called advancement of technology in Audio. Yet somehow the interest/excitement is being eradicated from HiFi for the sake of practical use. Why stop at streaming; make HiFi invisible to the naked eye in the rooms so that we can only hear it but not see it. Its like making all future cars in UK electric and the top speed of all cars will be precisely 70mph. Bye bye to all car enthusiasts the future world will be correct and practical and so grey..!

I don't have a clue what you're on about, and I guess you don't either. If you want excitement there's still conventional amplifiers, speakers, CD players and turntables to go insane about. As well as countless streamers and DACs.

 

[plastic penguin]

All am saying PP, we need new standards for testing cause Hi-fi & tech really fast moving.

New standards for reviewing/testing equipement sounds really geeky. If you and others are so into "blind tests" book an appointment at your local dealer and ask them for the What Hi-fi curtain. *biggrin*

 

[plastic penguin]

When will we ever get tests of hi-fi systems blinded?

I bet the reviewers Whathifi wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 500 quid unit and a 15000 quid unit.

Really, don't we want to know what sounds best, regardless of the price?

Sorry to defecate on your chips, but back in 2009/10 What Hi-fi had a 'Big Question', where they invited 3 people each month to their Teddington HQ to review 2-channel/multi-channel/TVs etc.

I was invited to review stereo speakers/amps. And yes, it was a blind test: They had a curtain over the said amps: Roksan Kandy K2, Cyrus 8VS2... and they tested two speakers: Ruark Sabre IIIs and ATC SCM11s.

And yes (again), we all could tell the difference.

Telling the difference is different from saying which sounds best, and which is more expensive. Moreover what was the purpose of the test.

How was the match making done? Obviously the better Speakers will sound best if driven properly by any amp.

Things are even more competitively priced compared to 7yrs ago. Do the same test now you will struggle to distinguish which is which or sounds better. Of course all things being equal.

Good grief!

The OP was having a 'pop' at What hi-fi for not having blind tests? right or wrong? So I just pointed out that they do have blind tests (can't see why they don't now, and how would you know?)

You're wrong! if you get two price compatible speakers on 2017, as they were back in 2009, how is that different? I'm not comparing - or even suggesting - a 2009 speaker or amp with a good quality current model. I'm only suggesting that blind tests have been done. And as far as I know they could be today.

FWIW, I personally loved the Ruarks with K2, however, in terms of an instant impact the Cyrus and ATCs [/b]won the day.

Cyrus partnered with ATC???!! Bejesus! - Instant impact as the paint came off the walls or as in your bones shattered. Throw in a Chord DAC and the US military would be interested in buying such a setup. *smile*

We had no say in what was tested. Presumably the equipment chosen were award winners at the time.

I'm sure Simon Lucas could give you more insight into testing and the Big Question.

 

[Electro]

I blame it on all this 'Streaming' nonsense. Reviews now are on items such as apps, smartphones, tidal, airplay, docks, tv's, earphones. What HiFi should change its name to What Gadgets - yuuuuch..!

Strictly speaking modern hifi is gadgets. And you aware Linn, for example, ONLY does streaming now? It's just the nature of the beast. WHF could happily change its name to What Gadgets, but since their focus is still on audio - if you read their smartphone reviews you'll glean that. If I have the time, I enjoy all the hifi rags i.e. WHF, Hifi News etc. They're all good to me.

I find most of the criticisms here nitpicking.

As for blind testing - my opinion is that expectation bias is impossible to eradicate, let me explain:

Let's say a reviewer brings in a budget speaker like B&W 685s2. He then asks 2 or so other reviewers to blind test it. They may love or loathe it. Then, for a fair rating, the knowing reviewer has to reveal the price of the speaker. then ultimately the make of the product.

So are you absolutely sure subjectivity won't creep in at the final rating point?

I sort of imagined I would get a response as above in relation to streaming and so called advancement of technology in Audio. Yet somehow the interest/excitement is being eradicated from HiFi for the sake of practical use. Why stop at streaming; make HiFi invisible to the naked eye in the rooms so that we can only hear it but not see it. Its like making all future cars in UK electric and the top speed of all cars will be precisely 70mph. Bye bye to all car enthusiasts the future world will be correct and practical and so grey..!

I don't have a clue what you're on about, and I guess you don't either. If you want excitement there's still conventional amplifiers, speakers, CD players and turntables to go insane about. As well as countless streamers and DACs.

I think I might understand what he means.

It's the general trend to try and sanitize everything so that we all become comfortably numb.

I not sure this relates to HiFi equipment but just life in general.

There seems to be a rebelion against this type of thing at the moment which is quite heartening ( to me ) . *yes3*

 

[Native_bon]

All am saying PP, we need new standards for testing cause Hi-fi & tech really fast moving.

New standards for reviewing/testing equipement sounds really geeky. If you and others are so into "blind tests" book an appointment at your local dealer and ask them for the What Hi-fi curtain. *biggrin*

Nope. Am going forwards not backwards. ☺

 

[Native_bon]

All am saying PP, we need new standards for testing cause Hi-fi & tech really fast moving.

New standards for reviewing/testing equipement sounds really geeky. If you and others are so into "blind tests" book an appointment at your local dealer and ask them for the What Hi-fi curtain. *biggrin*

Nope. Am going forwards not backwards. ☺