Source...which direction to go?

[BenLaw]

Interesting, thanks Cno I think I first came across it browsing the Kronos website as they have some sort of setup in Manchester. I like the idea of 2tb internal SSD but hate to think of the cost! It's a shame you didn't get to hear it through familiar electronics, but that's usually the way at shows. Do they have one you could listen to near you?

I would love to hear the DCS someday, but am going through a (probably fairly lengthy) period where I must avoid temptation!

 

[CnoEvil]

Interesting, thanks Cno I think I first came across it browsing the Kronos website as they have some sort of setup in Manchester. I like the idea of 2tb internal SSD but hate to think of the cost! It's a shame you didn't get to hear it through familiar electronics, but that's usually the way at shows. Do they have one you could listen to near you?

I would love to hear the DCS someday, but am going through a (probably fairly lengthy) period where I must avoid temptation!

Now that I think of it, I think I also heard it in their shop with the Focal Speakers and possibly the VTS or Bladius amp (a bit fuzzy on this), it was a lot better, but Focal are not my favorite speakers either (but better than Triangle).

 

[acalex]

Quick question for the experts....I heard yesterday a Mitchell Gyro which sounded very warm and analogue. The dealer said that whatever is produced in UK is usually more "analog" sounding, whilst in the states is the other way round. That's why he classifies Mitchell as the most "analogue sounding" TT, then Clearaudio in the middle and VPI (produced in the States) more aggressive and analytical. He also said it could sound ever more analytical than a CD.

I am now asking to you...what I have been told makes sense? How a TT can sound more analytical/analog technically? I would be more inclined to think that phonostage is the main responsible for the type of sound a TT produces...as I see the TT as a pure trasnport, am I wrong?

In any case would you be able to argument a bit more on this? Thanks a lot!!!

 

[matthewpiano]

I find the biggest influence is the cartridge. I had a Michell TecnoDec some time ago and sold it because I found it sounded too much like CD - fine in some ways as I'm a big fan of CD, but the whole point of having vinyl for me is to be able to enjoy a different, more analogue sound, which my current Rega RP3/Elys 2 combination gives me. Looking back it is quite possible that rather than the Michell, it might well have been the Sumiko Evo III cartridge I was using...

 

[acalex]

I find the biggest influence is the cartridge. I had a Michell TecnoDec some time ago and sold it because I found it sounded too much like CD - fine in some ways as I'm a big fan of CD, but the whole point of having vinyl for me is to be able to enjoy a different, more analogue sound, which my current Rega RP3/Elys 2 combination gives me. Looking back it is quite possible that rather than the Michell, it might well have been the Sumiko Evo III cartridge I was using...

Interesting...how the catrdige might influence the sound? I mean it's a mechanical/electrical component, in what way it might change the sound if we swap cartridge with a more "analogue" one? Or put in a simpler way, what are the caracteristics of a more analogue sounding cartridge?

 

[CnoEvil]

Good morning!

Traditional thinking would say that the TT has more effect than the Arm, and the Arm more effect than the Cartridge.

The TT is so sensitive to every sort of vibration and feedback, that how effectively this is handled has a big effect. The power supply and how accurately/consistently the platter spins, also has a big effect.

Linn use a suspended system, which may well contribute to the wonderfully organic sound that it makes.

Of all the hifi components that exist, the TT is the most effected by where it's placed, what it sits on and how accurately it's set up.

 

[acalex]

Good morning!

Traditional thinking would say that the TT has more effect than the Arm, and the Arm more effect than the Cartridge.

The TT is so sensitive to every sort of vibration and feedback, that how effectively this is handled has a big effect. The power supply and how accurately/consistently the platter spins, also has a big effect.

Linn use a suspended system, which may well contribute to the wonderfully organic sound that it makes.

Of all the hifi components that exist, the TT is the most effected by where it's placed, what it sits on and how accurately it's set up.

Ok, this is now clear to me. But so the more vibrations are reduced the more analogue is sounding? Still I can't find the logic correlation...

 

[acalex]

Good morning!

Traditional thinking would say that the TT has more effect than the Arm, and the Arm more effect than the Cartridge.

The TT is so sensitive to every sort of vibration and feedback, that how effectively this is handled has a big effect. The power supply and how accurately/consistently the platter spins, also has a big effect.

Linn use a suspended system, which may well contribute to the wonderfully organic sound that it makes.

Of all the hifi components that exist, the TT is the most effected by where it's placed, what it sits on and how accurately it's set up.

Ok, this is now clear to me. But so the more vibrations are reduced the more analogue is sounding? Still I can't find the logic correlation...

btw the Gyro I tried was indeed suspended...

 

[CnoEvil]

Ok, this is now clear to me. But so the more vibrations are reduced the more analogue is sounding.....

.....Sort of. The vibrations etc, prevent the TT sounding as it was intended to do so. The advice from when I was into "The Faff", was to place the TT on a light sturdy table (usually a metal frame with a medite/mdf top) or a wall shelf and away from the speakers. Heavy structures like a sideboard are more prone to passing on acoustic and structure-borne feedback. I used one from Sound Organization.

Get this right and you should be rewarded with a cleaner sound with better dynamics. Bass lines should be tighter and more controlled, with the midrange/ upper octaves being more open and detailed ie the whole sound becomes more involving and exciting.

The Linn Sondek that I owned in the 80s had a much more mid-rangey and euphoric presentation than the current incarnation, which is more neutral (but still very musical)....this is down to 20 years of constant tweaking and a power supply that is a big improvement.

 

[acalex]

Ok, this is now clear to me. But so the more vibrations are reduced the more analogue is sounding.....

.....Sort of. The vibrations etc, prevent the TT sounding as it was intended to do so. The advice from when I was into "The Faff", was to place the TT on a light sturdy table (usually a metal frame with a medite/mdf top) or a wall shelf and away from the speakers. Heavy structures like a sideboard are more prone to passing on acoustic and structure-borne feedback. I used one from Sound Organization.

Get this right and you should be rewarded with a cleaner sound with better dynamics. Bass lines should be tighter and more controlled, with the midrange/ upper octaves being more open and detailed ie the whole sound becomes more involving and exciting.

The Linn Sondek that I owned in the 80s had a much more mid-rangey and euphoric presentation than the current incarnation, which is more neutral (but still very musical)....this is down to 20 years of constant tweaking and a power supply that is a big improvement.

Yes, vibrations reduction will be a great part of the work once I have all components in place. Was thinking about buying a Solid Steel hi-fi rack (bit expensive but very nicely built, and Italian brand )

 

[CnoEvil]

Yes, vibrations reduction will be a great part of the work once I have all components in place. Was thinking about buying a Solid Steel hi-fi rack (bit expensive but very nicely built, and Italian brand )

IMO. Hi-Fi sounds better (more organic and musical) on wood (yes, I know I'm barking), and this crowd do great (and bespoke) products:
http://www.hifiracks.co.uk/?gclid=CI7YqqCet68CFcwTfAod5xTEhg

Here is the table I used to use (still have it, even though I've no longer got a TT): http://www.audioasylumtrader.com/ca/ca.html?ca=35923

 

[acalex]

Yes, vibrations reduction will be a great part of the work once I have all components in place. Was thinking about buying a Solid Steel hi-fi rack (bit expensive but very nicely built, and Italian brand )

IMO. Hi-Fi sounds better (more organic and musical) on wood (yes, I know I'm barking), and this crowd do great (and bespoke) products: http://www.hifiracks.co.uk/?gclid=CI7YqqCet68CFcwTfAod5xTEhg Here is the table I used to use (still have it, even though I've no longer got a TT): http://www.audioasylumtrader.com/ca/ca.html?ca=35923

That's probably because wood can "absorb" better vibrations produced by the component itself instead of "rejecting" them towards the same component again...no clue I am guessing!

Yes I saw that website, those stands are truly beautiful indeed!

 

[CnoEvil]

That's probably because wood can "absorb" better vibrations produced by the component itself instead of "rejecting" them towards the same component again...no clue I am guessing!

Yes I saw that website, those stands are truly beautiful indeed!

You might find this interesting reading....click on "What is the best rack to put the amplifier" and read down from there:
http://www.lavardin.com/lavardin-faqE.html#support

 

[paradiziac]

You might find this interesting reading....click on "What is the best rack to put the amplifier" and read down from there: http://www.lavardin.com/lavardin-faqE.html#support

An interesting read!

I like the quote:

""when the Pizza has too much salt, putting sugar in it will not really "improve".... "

FWIW, I just use a good solid coffee table...

 

[acalex]

A really interesting reading indeed. It was more or less what I said, it has to do with vibration being absorbed better with wood.

I also agree on the fact that amplifier has not to be chosen to "tame" defects of speakers. That's why probably Jadis sounded so goo to my ears matched with Sonus Faber Guarneri speakers

 

[CnoEvil]

An interesting read!

I like the quote:

""when the Pizza has too much salt, putting sugar in it will not really "improve".... "

FWIW, I just use a good solid coffee table...

They're French!.....what more is there to say?

 

[CnoEvil]

I also agree on the fact that amplifier has not to be chosen to "tame" defects of speakers. That's why probably Jadis sounded so goo to my ears matched with Sonus Faber Guarneri speakers

I think the amp and speakers should be chosen as a "matched pair" for their synergy, and the ability to produce a sound that is correct for the person buying it.......doing anything else leads to disappointment.

 

[acalex]

Resuming this thread as I have a problem with my actual turntable (the Clearaudio Performance) and wondering if anybody could help/advise on this: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/turntables-and-lps/clearaudio-maestro-mm-cartridge-any-problem

Thanks a lot!

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi Acalex, just came across this, which you might find interesting:
http://audiophilemusings.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/linn-streaming-evening-chris-brooks.html

What's worthy of note is that (according to the writer), the Majik DS "completely wiped the floor" with Linn's (now discontinued) £12k CD12 (one of the best CDPs of its day).....this is why I keep plugging the DS range.

It is also his belief that an Akurate DS/1 would outclass the top end LP12, which costs upward of £10k.....if true, that could leave the Klimax DS/1 in a different league!

 

[acalex]

Hi Acalex, just came across this, which you might find interesting: http://audiophilemusings.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/linn-streaming-evening-chris-brooks.html What's worthy of note is that (according to the writer), the Majik DS "completely wiped the floor" with Linn's (now discontinued) £12k CD12 (one of the best CDPs of its day).....this is why I keep plugging the DS range. It is also his belief that an Akurate DS/1 would outclass the top end LP12, which costs upward of £10k.....if true, that could leave the Klimax DS/1 in a different league!

Very interesting read, thanks a lot! I have to demo an Akurate DS1 now... :dance:

 

[acalex]

OK, resuming this thread to update you on the source. Analog source is already sorted out with a Clearaudio Performance SE turntable and an EAR834P Signature phonostage.

Now it's time of digital one...I am still wondering if I will be putting a great DAC behind the SBT or swapping the all with an high-end streamer. For now I will start borrowing the following DACs and post my impression (it is the easiest solution).

- Rega DAC

- M1DAC

- M2Tech Young DAC

All available and in stock at my favorite shop...so no problem in that. I really want to see when things start improving compared to using the SBT with its internal DAC

As usual all thoughs are more than welcome!

Alex

 

[CnoEvil]

Now it's time of digital one...I am still wondering if I will be putting a great DAC behind the SBT or swapping the all with an high-end streamer.

:silenced: :wall:

 

[Pedro2]

OK, resuming this thread to update you on the source. Analog source is already sorted out with a Clearaudio Performance SE turntable and an EAR834P Signature phonostage.

Now it's time of digital one...I am still wondering if I will be putting a great DAC behind the SBT or swapping the all with an high-end streamer. For now I will start borrowing the following DACs and post my impression (it is the easiest solution).

- Rega DAC

- M1DAC

- M2Tech Young DAC

All available and in stock at my favorite shop...so no problem in that. I really want to see when things start improving compared to using the SBT with its internal DAC

As usual all thoughs are more than welcome!

Alex

Hi Alex,

Just replaced SBT + linear power supply + Audio GD NFB2 dac (rates alongside Rega dac for sq) + Roksan power amp + Creek passive pre with Linn Majik DSM.

Sound is richer, more involving, with greater detail and just leaves you wanting more. Hard to put into words really but it just sounds so good!

The squeeze is fantastic value for money and I've used one for 5 years but the Linn is superb in my humble opinion.

 

[nads]

OK, resuming this thread to update you on the source. Analog source is already sorted out with a Clearaudio Performance SE turntable and an EAR834P Signature phonostage.

Now it's time of digital one...I am still wondering if I will be putting a great DAC behind the SBT or swapping the all with an high-end streamer. For now I will start borrowing the following DACs and post my impression (it is the easiest solution).

- Rega DAC

- M1DAC

- M2Tech Young DAC

All available and in stock at my favorite shop...so no problem in that. I really want to see when things start improving compared to using the SBT with its internal DAC

As usual all thoughs are more than welcome!

Alex

Hi Alex,

Just replaced SBT + linear power supply + Audio GD NFB2 dac (rates alongside Rega dac for sq) + Roksan power amp + Creek passive pre with Linn Majik DSM.

Sound is richer, more involving, with greater detail and just leaves you wanting more. Hard to put into words really but it just sounds so good!

The squeeze is fantastic value for money and I've used one for 5 years but the Linn is superb in my humble opinion.

so a DAC equal to the Linn would be good for the SBT?

 

[acalex]

OK, resuming this thread to update you on the source. Analog source is already sorted out with a Clearaudio Performance SE turntable and an EAR834P Signature phonostage.

Now it's time of digital one...I am still wondering if I will be putting a great DAC behind the SBT or swapping the all with an high-end streamer. For now I will start borrowing the following DACs and post my impression (it is the easiest solution).

- Rega DAC

- M1DAC

- M2Tech Young DAC

All available and in stock at my favorite shop...so no problem in that. I really want to see when things start improving compared to using the SBT with its internal DAC

As usual all thoughs are more than welcome!

Alex

Hi Alex,

Just replaced SBT + linear power supply + Audio GD NFB2 dac (rates alongside Rega dac for sq) + Roksan power amp + Creek passive pre with Linn Majik DSM.

Sound is richer, more involving, with greater detail and just leaves you wanting more. Hard to put into words really but it just sounds so good!

The squeeze is fantastic value for money and I've used one for 5 years but the Linn is superb in my humble opinion.

so a DAC equal to the Linn would be good for the SBT?

I suspect a Linn streamer will be always better in terms of SQ when compared to SBT with DAC for the same amount of money. But I want find out myself before confirming this statement...