Source...which direction to go?

[tino]

1) will the SBT be up to the job?

You already have these ... how does it sound to you and can you live with it for a while?

2) Will the sound improve drastically IF i swap the SBT with a more expensive stremer (say for example the Linn Sneaky or the Majik DS)?

Most people would say yes if your system is resolving enough, and it sounds as though your almost chosen system will be. But since you are using a valve amp then a very high resolution digital source might not be as important .. just a good one will do e.g. Majik DS(M).

3)...having an high-end DAC (let's say Jadis, 4k eur) and a Sneaky DS (1k) I will end up same price as a second hand Klimax DS or a new Akurate. Will this combo be better than the Linn all-in-one solution?

4K on a DAC!!!?!?!? I would question what going over 1K on a DAC brings you in terms of sonic ability, or are you paying for the casework and low volume exclusivity/hand-made components. Have a look at North Star (an Italian company ) for some of their DACs. They do some good stuff < 1.5K

4)Will I need, in the future, to upgrade my digital source if new technology comes out?

If a digital source at least copes with 24/96 then you should be OK for a few years ... after all CDs have been around for 25 years. I think future proofing for 192/24 or higher resolutions might make a little bit of sense sense but you might be paying extra for technology that you may never use or cheaper next year, and the availability of music at this resolution is both limited and very expensive. And why spend so much when you love the turntable as a source more.

 

[acalex]

For now the SBT is holding well, but for sure is far different from what I heard at the dealer shop...and I guess great part of the sound I liked so much was due to the source (TT and expensive CDP) other than amp and great speakers.

DAC price...I am not sure a 1.5k eur DAC is the same as a 4k eur DAC. Do you really think the difference is due exclusively to the case design? Do not think so...but can't say anything so far as I haven't compared a 1k eur DAC and a 5k eur DAC. Next step is to understand if the SQ improvement is worth 4k eur...

I agree with you about digital source...I would feel more comfortable to have a 24/192 digital source at least...

Love vinyls...but I am being realistic here. Unfortunately I do not have the time every day to listen to vinyls as the streaming is so handy being able to jump from a track to another in a few seconds...

 

[paradiziac]

3)...having an high-end DAC (let's say Jadis, 4k eur) and a Sneaky DS (1k) I will end up same price as a second hand Klimax DS or a new Akurate. Will this combo be better than the Linn all-in-one solution?

I think "better" will be simply the one you most like the sound of, I don't think there's an argument for a one-box solution being better overall at the same price--that's an oversimplification.

Here's an interesting comparision between the Weiss DAC 202 (Mac mini+Squeezebox) v the one-box Devialet.

http://ukiro.com/2011/05/03/devialet_vs_weiss-dac202/

(Mods: we're allowed to link to blogs etc under the new rules, right?)

 

[acalex]

3)...having an high-end DAC (let's say Jadis, 4k eur) and a Sneaky DS (1k) I will end up same price as a second hand Klimax DS or a new Akurate. Will this combo be better than the Linn all-in-one solution?

I think "better" will be simply the one you most like the sound of, I don't think there's an argument for a one-box solution being better overall at the same price--that's an oversimplification.

Here's an interesting comparision between the Weiss DAC 202 (Mac mini+Squeezebox) v the one-box Devialet.

http://ukiro.com/2011/05/03/devialet_vs_weiss-dac202/

(Mods: we're allowed to link to blogs etc under the new rules, right?)

Very interesting reading. Nice piece of kit as well this Weiss DAC 202...also has an headphone input which would save me around 500 eur on a separate headphone amplifier.

Still would like to hear what a NOS DAC could do...are you also thinking that any DAC over 1k eur is pure speculation?

 

[acalex]

You're probably right as always ... but 50% of the time it may not be important (everyday listening), and for the other 50% Acalex can warm up the Jadis (or AMS35i if he has a change of mind! :silenced: ) and use the DSM as source via line/pre outs.

Hey Tino, I am still assessing both and struggling to be honest :wall:

If you want to read where I am standing now go and check my last post on the Jadis thread which is where I am keeping all my thoughts on amp...

 

[Helmut80]

The answer to all your problems is to just forget about that cheapo MF and Jardis rubbish and just get 2 Devialet D-Premiers

>)

 

[nads]

TBH I would stop the thinking untill you have the amp and speakers installed. then using the SBT audition some DACs.

 

[paradiziac]

Very interesting reading. Nice piece of kit as well this Weiss DAC 202...also has an headphone input which would save me around 500 eur on a separate headphone amplifier.

I wasn't particularly recommending the Weiss (haven't heard it), just pointing out that the sound you can get from a Mac mini is surely comparable with the hi-end one box solutions.

Still would like to hear what a NOS DAC could do...are you also thinking that any DAC over 1k eur is pure speculation?

Not pure speculation, though whether a 5K DAC makes sense is down to the individual and the rest of their system.

Multibit DACs v Delta sigma DACs is the more important distinction between DACs, rather than NOS/OS. Multibit DACs are natural partners of Class A/Tubes. Purer and more natural sound. All kinds of complicated technical reasons and also many exceptions to the rule, bad sounding multibit and good sounding Delta sigma etc--so best to trust your ears--although I think it's useful to have some idea of this basic distinction.

 

[fatman]

bang on nads. :O . enjoy the auditioning of the amp & speakers to get the sound you want from the TT.

if money is a consideration and you are wondering if there is justification in spending €5k instead of €1k on the DAC (considering diminshing returns) the money is probably better spent on the amp & speakers as i believe you'll hear more of a difference spending the extra €4k here.

lol, what do i know, i use a squeezebox. would welcome one of those jardis valve amps into the house mind - & would save a fortune on speakers as would be happy just looking at it.

 

[acalex]

Ehy, thanks a lot to everybody for the insights!

First of all let me tell you all another time...is Jadis and not JaRdis as everybody seems to know it :rofl: For a moment I also wasn't sure we were talking about same stuff! It is a French manufacturer

http://www.jadis-electronics.com/

 

[acalex]

The answer to all your problems is to just forget about that cheapo MF and Jardis [JADIS] rubbish and just get 2 Devialet D-Premiers

>)

No way...can't forget the sound of a tube/pure class a amp so easily !

 

[acalex]

TBH I would stop the thinking untill you have the amp and speakers installed. then using the SBT audition some DACs.

In my head I already have amp and speakers already...also more or less the timing. Speakers will come for Xmas probably...anyway before end of this year. TT is coming in the next 2/3 months. In the meantime I will keep the SBT and start audiotioning the rest...I like to think a lot in advance so I have time to assess several solutions. I am like this... :cheers:

 

[acalex]

bang on nads. :O . enjoy the auditioning of the amp & speakers to get the sound you want from the TT.

if money is a consideration and you are wondering if there is justification in spending €5k instead of €1k on the DAC (considering diminshing returns) the money is probably better spent on the amp & speakers as i believe you'll hear more of a difference spending the extra €4k here.

lol, what do i know, i use a squeezebox. would welcome one of those jardis valve amps into the house mind - & would save a fortune on speakers as would be happy just looking at it.

Ahahah, is indeed a beautiful amp! And when you listen to it matched with those you can't stop listening and dreming also

Budget for amp and speaker is set already...so no point in spending more money on that (speakers are already a big chunk of budget...my favorites are those by the way)

 

[acalex]

Very interesting reading. Nice piece of kit as well this Weiss DAC 202...also has an headphone input which would save me around 500 eur on a separate headphone amplifier.

I wasn't particularly recommending the Weiss (haven't heard it), just pointing out that the sound you can get from a Mac mini is surely comparable with the hi-end one box solutions.

Still would like to hear what a NOS DAC could do...are you also thinking that any DAC over 1k eur is pure speculation?

Not pure speculation, though whether a 5K DAC makes sense is down to the individual and the rest of their system.

Multibit DACs v Delta sigma DACs is the more important distinction between DACs, rather than NOS/OS. Multibit DACs are natural partners of Class A/Tubes. Purer and more natural sound. All kinds of complicated technical reasons and also many exceptions to the rule, bad sounding multibit and good sounding Delta sigma etc--so best to trust your ears--although I think it's useful to have some idea of this basic distinction.

I understood the point of the topic..was just thinking loud about the DAC used in the review. Very interesting last bit...wasn't aware of this difference. have to read more on Multibit vs Delta. Example of multibit? Thanks a lot

 

[Helmut80]

are the comaprable SF floorstanders above your budget or do you prefer the standmounts, alcalex.

PS: I was actually thinking about your post in the other thread as I typed it out, but wasn't sure anymore. here it is, just for you:

JaRdis JaRdis JaRdis

 

[acalex]

are the comaprable SF floorstanders above your budget or do you prefer the standmounts, alcalex.

PS: I was actually thinking about your post in the other thread as I typed it out, but wasn't sure anymore. here it is, just for you:

JaRdis JaRdis JaRdis

Don't see anything as I supposed you posted an image

Which floorstanders are you talking about? as there are different SF floorstanders!

Btw are you from 1980 also? :cheers:

 

[nads]

Speakers will come for Xmas probably...anyway before end of this year. TT is coming in the next 2/3 months.

so there is little point in doing much other than consuming music untill next year then.

Have fun.

 

[Helmut80]

are the comaprable SF floorstanders above your budget or do you prefer the standmounts, alcalex.

PS: I was actually thinking about your post in the other thread as I typed it out, but wasn't sure anymore. here it is, just for you:

JaRdis JaRdis JaRdis

Don't see anything as I supposed you posted an image

Which floorstanders are you talking about? as there are different SF floorstanders!

Btw are you from 1980 also? :cheers:

Yes I was indeed born in 1980, obviously the best year ever. I was asking because I am a sucker for floorstanders, and the only SF ones I am familiar with are the Liuto Towers. So I was wondering what the next step up fom that would be. Is there a floorstander version of the ones you have picked out?

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

I think the main question you should ask yourself in this situation is whether you prefer more boxes on display or less. and start from there.

Actually that was never a problem. I have quite a lot of space and my gf didn't complain about having more boxes around...so not an issue there.

I didn't really have space issues on mind. only aesthetics. some prefer less boxes, for some the more the better.

I prefer to have things integrated. and integrated amp and integrated player and I'm happy enough. for that reason I'd go for a streamer option. but there is nothing right now on the market that hits the right buzz words for me.

 

[paradiziac]

Example of multibit? Thanks a lot

Zanden model audio 5000 is a fine example of the type.

The price will make you

And it don't even do hi-res... :rofl:

FYI, multibit DACs are also referred to as R2R or "ladder" type DACs.

Interesting not too technical description of the theory:

http://www.msbtech.com/support/How_DACs_Work.php?Page=supportHome

[Edit: not all Multibit dacs are expensive, there are loads of budget Chinese DAC chips with parallel multibit DACs inside, e.g. Teradak Chameleon, but...not quite the same sound...]

 

[acalex]

Yes I was indeed born in 1980, obviously the best year ever. I was asking because I am a sucker for floorstanders, and the only SF ones I am familiar with are the Liuto Towers. So I was wondering what the next step up fom that would be. Is there a floorstander version of the ones you have picked out?

Agreed! :cheer:

In the same collection of Guarneri Memento (Homage collection) there is the Amati Anniversario as a floorstanders, but price is almost 3 times the Guarneri Memento (which I can assure you are not cheap) so way too expensive.

They look nice though :doh:

 

[acalex]

I think the main question you should ask yourself in this situation is whether you prefer more boxes on display or less. and start from there.

Actually that was never a problem. I have quite a lot of space and my gf didn't complain about having more boxes around...so not an issue there.

I didn't really have space issues on mind. only aesthetics. some prefer less boxes, for some the more the better.

I prefer to have things integrated. and integrated amp and integrated player and I'm happy enough. for that reason I'd go for a streamer option. but there is nothing right now on the market that hits the right buzz words for me.

I see what you mean. I am actually the "the more boxes the better" type of guy :rofl:

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

I see what you mean. I am actually the "the more boxes the better" type of guy :rofl:

in that case I'm surprised you're not considering a pre/pair of monos as an option for your amp? :rofl:

and I would definitely be going for a transport/dac option with source. with added phono stage for the TT you'll have, let me think, 6 (!) boxes. and that only if we assume components have their own power supplies. you could always go for external PSs if you wanted to. :rofl:

 

[tino]

I see what you mean. I am actually the "the more boxes the better" type of guy :rofl:

in that case I'm surprised you're not considering a pre/pair of monos as an option for your amp? :rofl:

and I would definitely be going for a transport/dac option with source. with added phono stage for the TT you'll have, let me think, 6 (!) boxes. and that only if we assume components have their own power supplies. you could always go for external PSs if you wanted to. :rofl:

How many boxes can you get from Musical Fidelity so they all match your AMS35i

M1-Clic + M1-HPA + M1-ViNL

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Multibit DACs v Delta sigma DACs is the more important distinction between DACs, rather than NOS/OS. Multibit DACs are natural partners of Class A/Tubes. Purer and more natural sound. All kinds of complicated technical reasons and also many exceptions to the rule, bad sounding multibit and good sounding Delta sigma etc--so best to trust your ears--although I think it's useful to have some idea of this basic distinction.

I see I'm not the only one around here who feels fishy about DS modulation. when I read about how it works I thought about "creative accounting" all the time. just for the sake of gaining lower noise floor you get extra bits of resolution out of nowhere.