There's no point creating demand for a product with a great review (should it be worth it) if the manufacturer in question is unable to cope with the demand and goes under trying to meet it.
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Is OLED burn-in a problem? We want your input on one of TV’s hottest topics!
Andrew Everard:
dim_span:meaning?
Meaning you're doing a very good job of undermining your own argument...
if you say so Andrew ... but before deleting this link, read all 18 pages, then comment again
Link removed for House Rules violation - MODS
dim_span:meaning?
Meaning you're doing a very good job of undermining your own argument...
if you say so Andrew ... but before deleting this link, read all 18 pages, then comment again
Link removed for House Rules violation - MODS
dim_span:
thaiman, am not going to argue, as you have expensive cabling ...
but can say they need more than 3 songs to burn in ... they need more than 40 hrs (you would have read that on the ebay listing when you bought them) ...
mine also sounded rubbish for the first 8 hrs, and other people who reviewd them found that after 20hrs or so, they sounded really good (for the price paid)
Mate, expensive is not always for the better, trust me I have been there. My best friend is always going on about cables burn in and he is a top engineer so there must be something in the line of work!. As for myself, If it not sound good out of the box then they are no good for me! Even speakers which need a long period of burn-in process, from new, you should be able to hear if they will become good enough when fully cooked. My Vertex was needed 1 week to burn (or i have been told) but I love them by the time 2nd verse started.
thaiman, am not going to argue, as you have expensive cabling ...
but can say they need more than 3 songs to burn in ... they need more than 40 hrs (you would have read that on the ebay listing when you bought them) ...
mine also sounded rubbish for the first 8 hrs, and other people who reviewd them found that after 20hrs or so, they sounded really good (for the price paid)
Mate, expensive is not always for the better, trust me I have been there. My best friend is always going on about cables burn in and he is a top engineer so there must be something in the line of work!. As for myself, If it not sound good out of the box then they are no good for me! Even speakers which need a long period of burn-in process, from new, you should be able to hear if they will become good enough when fully cooked. My Vertex was needed 1 week to burn (or i have been told) but I love them by the time 2nd verse started.
dim_span, you are clearly aware of the House Rules - if you continue to violate them in your posts, you will be banned.
Andrew Everard:dim_span, you are clearly aware of the House Rules - if you continue to violate them in your posts, you will be banned.
Andrew, you have taken a dislike in me, so if you dont want me to post here, then just say so ... perhaps it's because I speak my mind and don't brown nose, but thats the way I am
you asked me a question, gave you the answer via a link and knew you would delete it, (and said you should) ... but there was no other way to give you the answer ...
the link I posted contained 18 pages of tests done by people (small people like me), who tested the product, and if you read the posts, you would see that everyone stated that they needed time to burn in (that was your question/insinuation) ... after approx 20 hrs or so, they sounded really good
Andrew, you have taken a dislike in me, so if you dont want me to post here, then just say so ... perhaps it's because I speak my mind and don't brown nose, but thats the way I am
you asked me a question, gave you the answer via a link and knew you would delete it, (and said you should) ... but there was no other way to give you the answer ...
the link I posted contained 18 pages of tests done by people (small people like me), who tested the product, and if you read the posts, you would see that everyone stated that they needed time to burn in (that was your question/insinuation) ... after approx 20 hrs or so, they sounded really good
Dave_
Well-known member
- Jul 31, 2008
- 1,238
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dim_span:Andrew Everard:
dim_span:meaning?
Meaning you're doing a very good job of undermining your own argument...
if you say so Andrew ... but before deleting this link, read all 18 pages, then comment again
Link removed for House Rules violation - MODS
Proves absolutely nothing,other than it's easy to get caught up in forum hype......
I've bought at least 3 products based on forum hype and been disappointed 3 times,though i blame myself for not learning the lesson the first time.
dim_span:meaning?
Meaning you're doing a very good job of undermining your own argument...
if you say so Andrew ... but before deleting this link, read all 18 pages, then comment again
Link removed for House Rules violation - MODS
Proves absolutely nothing,other than it's easy to get caught up in forum hype......
I've bought at least 3 products based on forum hype and been disappointed 3 times,though i blame myself for not learning the lesson the first time.
dim_span:
Andrew, you have taken a dislike in me, so if you dont want me to post here, then just say so ... perhaps it's because I speak my mind and don't brown nose, but thats the way I am
you asked me a question, gave you the answer via a link and knew you would delete it, (and said you should) ... but there was no other way to give you the answer ...
the link I posted contained 18 pages of tests done by people (small people like me), who tested the product, and if you read the posts, you would see that everyone stated that they needed time to burn in (that was your question/insinuation) ... after approx 20 hrs or so, they sounded really good
I don't think the link to the thread is the problem but (I guess) the forum where the thread posted is the problem. Understandable too afterall there are many threads that offended this forum on there (for a strange, unknown reason).
Andrew, you have taken a dislike in me, so if you dont want me to post here, then just say so ... perhaps it's because I speak my mind and don't brown nose, but thats the way I am
you asked me a question, gave you the answer via a link and knew you would delete it, (and said you should) ... but there was no other way to give you the answer ...
the link I posted contained 18 pages of tests done by people (small people like me), who tested the product, and if you read the posts, you would see that everyone stated that they needed time to burn in (that was your question/insinuation) ... after approx 20 hrs or so, they sounded really good
I don't think the link to the thread is the problem but (I guess) the forum where the thread posted is the problem. Understandable too afterall there are many threads that offended this forum on there (for a strange, unknown reason).
dim_span:Andrew, you have taken a dislike in me, so if you dont want me to post here, then just say so ... perhaps it's because I speak my mind and don't brown nose, but thats the way I am
Don't be ridiculous: no-one has taken a dislike to you; I'm merely continuing a conversation and enforcing house rules.
dim_span:you asked me a question, gave you the answer via a link and knew you
would delete it, (and said you should) ... but there was no other way
to give you the answer ...
Erm, I didn't ask you a question.
dim_span:you
would see that everyone stated that they needed time to burn in (that
was your question/insinuation)
Ah right, you inferred that I was asking a question...
Don't be ridiculous: no-one has taken a dislike to you; I'm merely continuing a conversation and enforcing house rules.
dim_span:you asked me a question, gave you the answer via a link and knew you
would delete it, (and said you should) ... but there was no other way
to give you the answer ...
Erm, I didn't ask you a question.
dim_span:you
would see that everyone stated that they needed time to burn in (that
was your question/insinuation)
Ah right, you inferred that I was asking a question...
dim_span:Andrew Everard:
dim_span:google Stewart Pinkerton (think he is based in the UK) ... £1000 up for grabs! (as far as I know) ... keep us informed!
Life's too short...
Life's too short ... but heck £1000 is a lot of money!
No, it isn't. £45000000 is a lot of money.
dim_span:google Stewart Pinkerton (think he is based in the UK) ... £1000 up for grabs! (as far as I know) ... keep us informed!
Life's too short...
Life's too short ... but heck £1000 is a lot of money!
No, it isn't. £45000000 is a lot of money.
dim_span:I feel that this review was perhaps not justified and perhaps because the seller of these (and Gotham) are small entrepeneurs who dont advertise in your magazine, they were 'downplayed' ... Heck, they cost less than £20 and the gothams were a tenner!
WHF has a history of giving poor reviews to products that are raved about in other mags and by consumers. And since many of those products were from major manufacturers (some of whom advertise in WHF, then I see no reason to believe that the Gotham or Silver High Breed were discriminated against because of size/lack of advertising).
Some Major Products that have received Product of the Year Awards, Best Buys and all around raves by other hifi mags and consumers, but were ripped a new guava in WHF were:
Krell S300i (3 Stars)
Cambridge Audio 840A V1 (3 Stars)
Nad C375BEE (3 Stars)
NAD C372 (2 or 3 Stars)
There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with WHF's reviews. We all have our own tastes and sonic priorities. Just don't confuse disagreement with meaning that there is a "Hidden Agenda" on the part of the mag.
WHF has a history of giving poor reviews to products that are raved about in other mags and by consumers. And since many of those products were from major manufacturers (some of whom advertise in WHF, then I see no reason to believe that the Gotham or Silver High Breed were discriminated against because of size/lack of advertising).
Some Major Products that have received Product of the Year Awards, Best Buys and all around raves by other hifi mags and consumers, but were ripped a new guava in WHF were:
Krell S300i (3 Stars)
Cambridge Audio 840A V1 (3 Stars)
Nad C375BEE (3 Stars)
NAD C372 (2 or 3 Stars)
There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with WHF's reviews. We all have our own tastes and sonic priorities. Just don't confuse disagreement with meaning that there is a "Hidden Agenda" on the part of the mag.
daveh75:dim_span:Andrew Everard:
dim_span:meaning?
Meaning you're doing a very good job of undermining your own argument...
if you say so Andrew ... but before deleting this link, read all 18 pages, then comment again
Link removed for House Rules violation - MODS
Proves absolutely nothing,other than it's easy to get caught up in forum hype......
I've bought at least 3 products based on forum hype and been disappointed 3 times,though i blame myself for not learning the lesson the first time.
I bet I can guess which ones too Dave
dim_span:meaning?
Meaning you're doing a very good job of undermining your own argument...
if you say so Andrew ... but before deleting this link, read all 18 pages, then comment again
Link removed for House Rules violation - MODS
Proves absolutely nothing,other than it's easy to get caught up in forum hype......
I've bought at least 3 products based on forum hype and been disappointed 3 times,though i blame myself for not learning the lesson the first time.
I bet I can guess which ones too Dave
well, I'm glad that we can all agree to disagree
but whatever happens, Dont let WHF get hold of an old Pioneer SA-9800 to review! ... I am very happy with my amp and dont need to read bad reviews/reports
but whatever happens, Dont let WHF get hold of an old Pioneer SA-9800 to review! ... I am very happy with my amp and dont need to read bad reviews/reports
Craig M.:
why wouldn't you want them to review it? is it rubbish?
no comment! ... sounds fine to me, but so do other things
why wouldn't you want them to review it? is it rubbish?
no comment! ... sounds fine to me, but so do other things
Apologies if I'm repeating anyone but I couldn't bother reading through the flame wars...
I think the main thing is budget, whats the point of shooting your
bolt for a carlos fandango amp and running a £50 cdp off it to some
speakers you got off your old midi system ( I did this, yes it sounded
rubbish and yes I'm a moron but I was 21 and didn't know better).
Anyway my 2pence is amp just before source then speakers. Take or leave this advice with the knowledge of what I have done above
Jigoo!
I think the main thing is budget, whats the point of shooting your
bolt for a carlos fandango amp and running a £50 cdp off it to some
speakers you got off your old midi system ( I did this, yes it sounded
rubbish and yes I'm a moron but I was 21 and didn't know better).
Anyway my 2pence is amp just before source then speakers. Take or leave this advice with the knowledge of what I have done above
Jigoo!
Apologies if I'm repeating anyone but I couldn't bother reading through the flame wars...
I think the main thing is budget, whats the point of shooting your
bolt for a carlos fandango amp and running a £50 cdp off it to some
speakers you got off your old midi system ( I did this, yes it sounded
rubbish and yes I'm a moron but I was 21 and didn't know better).
Anyway my 2pence is amp just before source then speakers. Take or leave this advice with the knowledge of what I have done above
Jigoo!
I think the main thing is budget, whats the point of shooting your
bolt for a carlos fandango amp and running a £50 cdp off it to some
speakers you got off your old midi system ( I did this, yes it sounded
rubbish and yes I'm a moron but I was 21 and didn't know better).
Anyway my 2pence is amp just before source then speakers. Take or leave this advice with the knowledge of what I have done above
Jigoo!
peebs:
I 've noticed an inconsistency in advice given on the relative importance of the source, the sound ( amp) and the speakers in Hi Fi systems when it comes to flashing the cash .
Some suggest that most should be spent on the source others on the amplier and yet others on the speakers
Once the source has put out it's all about as little degradation as possible - so spend more on that initial clarity ?
I wonder what others think and have done in actual fact with their systems and any upgrades that may have followed
As we can all see from the varied responses in this thread and just about any other similar threads, it depends on the individual and the particular equipment.
I've owned various combos sometimes with speakers being most expensive, then amp and currently source... When I upgrade, speakers will be the most expensive, then possibly source and then amp... but there is no right formula... it really depends on the quality of the individual components and system synergy...
I 've noticed an inconsistency in advice given on the relative importance of the source, the sound ( amp) and the speakers in Hi Fi systems when it comes to flashing the cash .
Some suggest that most should be spent on the source others on the amplier and yet others on the speakers
Once the source has put out it's all about as little degradation as possible - so spend more on that initial clarity ?
I wonder what others think and have done in actual fact with their systems and any upgrades that may have followed
As we can all see from the varied responses in this thread and just about any other similar threads, it depends on the individual and the particular equipment.
I've owned various combos sometimes with speakers being most expensive, then amp and currently source... When I upgrade, speakers will be the most expensive, then possibly source and then amp... but there is no right formula... it really depends on the quality of the individual components and system synergy...
Ajani:peebs:
I 've noticed an inconsistency in advice given on the relative importance of the source, the sound ( amp) and the speakers in Hi Fi systems when it comes to flashing the cash .
Some suggest that most should be spent on the source others on the amplier and yet others on the speakers
Once the source has put out it's all about as little degradation as possible - so spend more on that initial clarity ?
I wonder what others think and have done in actual fact with their systems and any upgrades that may have followed
As we can all see from the varied responses in this thread and just about any other similar threads, it depends on the individual and the particular equipment.
I've owned various combos sometimes with speakers being most expensive, then amp and currently source... When I upgrade, speakers will be the most expensive, then possibly source and then amp... but there is no right formula... it really depends on the quality of the individual components and system synergy...
if I had to buy brand new items, without having a clue of what I intended to buy, (lets say £10 000 (excluding cables)) ... I would split the budget as follows:
£4000 on an amp, £4000 on speakers and £2000 on a cdp ...
I 've noticed an inconsistency in advice given on the relative importance of the source, the sound ( amp) and the speakers in Hi Fi systems when it comes to flashing the cash .
Some suggest that most should be spent on the source others on the amplier and yet others on the speakers
Once the source has put out it's all about as little degradation as possible - so spend more on that initial clarity ?
I wonder what others think and have done in actual fact with their systems and any upgrades that may have followed
As we can all see from the varied responses in this thread and just about any other similar threads, it depends on the individual and the particular equipment.
I've owned various combos sometimes with speakers being most expensive, then amp and currently source... When I upgrade, speakers will be the most expensive, then possibly source and then amp... but there is no right formula... it really depends on the quality of the individual components and system synergy...
if I had to buy brand new items, without having a clue of what I intended to buy, (lets say £10 000 (excluding cables)) ... I would split the budget as follows:
£4000 on an amp, £4000 on speakers and £2000 on a cdp ...
dim_span:Craig M.:
why wouldn't you want them to review it? is it rubbish?
no comment! ... sounds fine to me, but so do other things
was just yanking your chain, mate. you did say you like winding people up!
why wouldn't you want them to review it? is it rubbish?
no comment! ... sounds fine to me, but so do other things
was just yanking your chain, mate. you did say you like winding people up!
Fahnsen:
That's not my experience.
You'll always hear the difference between two speakers. Only if the speakers are demanding (or, as some famous audio engineer put it: Badly constructed), you'll hear much difference between two amps. Unless those amps distort the sound, that is, But then many amps do of course.
As for sources, it depends.
There's a recent test showing that 'audiophiles', not knowing what they actually hear, are unable to distinguish between an original CD track and a copy that's recorded from a cheap CDP, through 5 metres of cheap, thin wire, to a cheap PC soundcard...
I think this ability to not tell the difference is an interesting point, but it still must remain that the source is the most important, this doesn't , though, mean that the most funds should be spent here.
I don't feel that is a contradiction either, due to the law of diminishing returns and you may prefer a speaker 'sound' that just happens to require very powerful (expensive) amplification to control 'drive' them.
I feel the main sound modifier are the speakers, as they can be so tonally different but the system must have a synergy between components. This is where some technical information on speaker repose and load is useful to help such decisions ( people must no shy away from tech specs as if its just for the boffins, although Japanese amp power specs are not that helpful here!)
For a blind test of 3 CD players , I took the then wife and we could both tell the same one being replayed each time and also disliked the same one.
Reviews must always be taken with a pinch a salt, as everyone has a preferred sound bias (warm full, detailed fast) and each mag. seems to prefer particular sound (like different Churches with the same God) and each item is system dependant, so will it work so well in yours?
Also some magazines review so many items a month they can hardly be detailed.
One also has to remember the technical ability of some reviewers and their inability to understand technical issues and can in some circumstances offer advice which later is proven incorrect.
Some magazines also seems to put some things into print. ( with all the best intentions ) and can't then back down from that position and have to maintain the face by reiterating a falsehood.
So the hi-fi world is a self promoting enterprise which has to be used as entertainment with your own ears and more importantly your wallet deciding.
Do you really trust Simon Cowell?
That's not my experience.
You'll always hear the difference between two speakers. Only if the speakers are demanding (or, as some famous audio engineer put it: Badly constructed), you'll hear much difference between two amps. Unless those amps distort the sound, that is, But then many amps do of course.
As for sources, it depends.
There's a recent test showing that 'audiophiles', not knowing what they actually hear, are unable to distinguish between an original CD track and a copy that's recorded from a cheap CDP, through 5 metres of cheap, thin wire, to a cheap PC soundcard...
I think this ability to not tell the difference is an interesting point, but it still must remain that the source is the most important, this doesn't , though, mean that the most funds should be spent here.
I don't feel that is a contradiction either, due to the law of diminishing returns and you may prefer a speaker 'sound' that just happens to require very powerful (expensive) amplification to control 'drive' them.
I feel the main sound modifier are the speakers, as they can be so tonally different but the system must have a synergy between components. This is where some technical information on speaker repose and load is useful to help such decisions ( people must no shy away from tech specs as if its just for the boffins, although Japanese amp power specs are not that helpful here!)
For a blind test of 3 CD players , I took the then wife and we could both tell the same one being replayed each time and also disliked the same one.
Reviews must always be taken with a pinch a salt, as everyone has a preferred sound bias (warm full, detailed fast) and each mag. seems to prefer particular sound (like different Churches with the same God) and each item is system dependant, so will it work so well in yours?
Also some magazines review so many items a month they can hardly be detailed.
One also has to remember the technical ability of some reviewers and their inability to understand technical issues and can in some circumstances offer advice which later is proven incorrect.
Some magazines also seems to put some things into print. ( with all the best intentions ) and can't then back down from that position and have to maintain the face by reiterating a falsehood.
So the hi-fi world is a self promoting enterprise which has to be used as entertainment with your own ears and more importantly your wallet deciding.
Do you really trust Simon Cowell?
The way I see it, and this is just my humble opinion, if you are going to claim that the source is the most important in the chain, then your argument for doing so means that you need to take into consideration the recording quality of what you are listening to, especially if it is classical music. The recording is the initial 'source'. For this reason, I believe speakers are the most important, as they affect the sound the most. They introduce the most distortion by a colossal margin. The minute distortions that amps and cd players introduce are so small in comparrison.
But they can have an effect ' by a colossal margin' what is put in.
I did say speakers have the greatest tonal effect as well.
I did say speakers have the greatest tonal effect as well.
Eddy41:
But they can have an effect ' by a colossal margin' what is put in.
I did say speakers have the greatest tonal effect as well.
Sorry, my response was more of a general one, wasn't refering to any particular response in here before.
But they can have an effect ' by a colossal margin' what is put in.
I did say speakers have the greatest tonal effect as well.
Sorry, my response was more of a general one, wasn't refering to any particular response in here before.
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