source, sound , speakers - which triumphs ?

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:

dim_span:Andrew, good post, however, having been involved in the Engineering and sales field for several years, (multi million pound tenders) ... there has always (and will always be) some form of 'soft' methods to sway people's way of thinking

We're not in the engineering or sales fields, so your argument has no relevance. And if you think we would be influenced by such tactics, you really haven't been paying attention...

And please don't come back with the 'it's not overt, but there are subtle ways of influencing' argument - we know all about those tactics, and they don't wash.

ok Andrew ... if you say so ... not really in an argumentitive mood, however, now that you bring it up ... (I have always been known to speak my mind ...)

be it engineering or real estate or earth moving equipment, markerting remains marketing, and people remain people

so 2 issues ... no 1 the Gotham review and no 2 the latest silver high breed review ...

I cannot speak for Gotham, as I have never heard or owned a pair, however, I own silver high breed ... however, reading the gotham thread, I was amazed

from what I have read, your magazine has recently printed an article as regards the Silver high breed interconnects ... this is what I have read (I have not read it in your magazine (seen it on the net) so correct me if I am wrong, or if this is untrue?) ...

quote:

"This new name, to us, is a lively listen with a wide sound. It's decent for the price, and the supple midrange and bass work well. But it suffers from a vicious top end, while production subtleties are stampeded over by a lack of cohesion. To pep up a dull system, this might be ideal; those with treble heavy kit should steer well clear."

so, after reading numerous posts as regards the silver high breed interconnects and all the positive responses from numerous owners who tested them over a lengthy period, WHF states that they have a 'vicious' top end? ... I own them on 2 of my systems and will disagree entirely...

I don't have 'bat ears' but do hear differences in cables ... I feel that this review was perhaps not justified and perhaps because the seller of these (and Gotham) are small entrepeneurs who dont advertise in your magazine, they were 'downplayed' ... Heck, they cost less than £20 and the gothams were a tenner!

I do not have any affiliation with Silver High breed, Gotham or any other supplier, and I do not sell hifi equipmment (privately or on ebay) ... I will be getting higher cost interconnects and speaker cables, so it does not really bother me and that was the intention from the onset.

so, I challenge WHF to do another blind test (with an independant moderator) and with 5 different interconnects .... lets see if the same results are apparent ... Had the silver high breeds been labelled as chord or Nordost or Kimber, I think the review may have read differently?

 

[plastic penguin]

JoelSim:

I'm very bored of the snake oil posse, they obviously trust science more than their ears.

Exactly......

 

[Andrew Everard]

dim_span:I feel that this review was perhaps not justified and perhaps because the seller of these (and Gotham) are small entrepeneurs who dont advertise in your magazine, they were 'downplayed'

Are you actually reading anything I'm writing here? OK here it is in simple words:

There

Is

No

Hidden

Agenda

Got it now? I sincerely hope so. Or maybe you are so blinded by insinuation and cynicism you will never get it.

 

[Anonymous]

Oh Ok Andrew ... like I said, I always speak my mind but no offence intended ...

so does that mean WHF is accepting the blind test challenge?

just joking

 

[Andrew Everard]

Given that we already do blind testing, I see no need to pander to someone of whom I've never heard...

 

[JoelSim]

Andrew Everard:Given that we already do blind testing, I see no need to pander to someone of whom I've never heard...

WHFSAV do blind testing? Why on earth didn't you tell us...

PS It's probably a good idea for anyone to read the testing details on the website before making accusatory remarks.

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:Given that we already do blind testing, I see no need to pander to someone of whom I've never heard...

oooh ... temper temper! ...there are loads of small people like me that you have never heard of, and that have bought these interconnects based on reviews from other users ... and who now feel dissappointed

so, it is a good thing that WHF does do blind testing ... so, let's retest these with a few other higher cost ones, and see if the results are the same ...

and lets do it with an independant moderator .... go on, be a sport Andrew! ... costs you nothing, and will make for interesting reading .... will also quell all the recent posts/disputes as regards cables/interconnects ....

so do we have a deal there Andrew?

 

[Thaiman]

matthewpiano:WHFS&V are impartial and the lack of relationship between advertising and reviews is blindingly obvious to me.

Take Sony. WHFS&V have been consistent in highlighting issues they have seen with their Sony review sets all year and yet who has a banner advert on ther WHFS&V website and a Christmas Gifts booklet secured inside the latest magazine?

Also guess which magazine DOESN'T use reps from manufacturers on their review panels??

and...

every other mags have advertising space too, I just flick through the collection issue of the other magazine and most if not all the brands that feature in that mag have advertise space on the very issue. So what that left us, the readers? If all of the magazines have hidden agenda (which I certainly do not believe that is the case) then none of them are worth reading!

I have some inside infomation, some reviewers will propose a review to hifi importers or manufactures, asking if they could keep the reviews products afterward or at least have it at a silly price. I am not saying they have any hidden agenda either but when you compare that to WHF&V who gone out and bought the review samples without manufactures knowing (in most case!) until the test is done, now what's conspiracy about that? I am not a staff or have a penny of share in Hay Marketing, this is just my honest comment of a guy who have been sceptic in the past.

 

[Anonymous]

dim_span:
Andrew Everard:Given that we already do blind testing, I see no need to pander to someone of whom I've never heard...

oooh ... temper temper! ...there are loads of small people like me that you have never heard of, and that have bought these interconnects based on reviews from other users ... and who now feel dissappointed

so, it is a good thing that WHF does do blind testing ... so, let's retest these with a few other higher cost ones, and see if the results are the same ...

and lets do it with an independant moderator .... go on, be a sport Andrew! ... costs you nothing, and will make for interesting reading .... will also quell all the recent posts/disputes as regards cables/interconnects ....

so do we have a deal there Andrew?

I've absolutely no idea about the approach to WHF testing (and to be honest it's an awfully long time since I bought the mag, as mags which review products - hifi, phones, computers, cameras - make me spend money I shouldn't!), but if I put myself in their shoes, why on earth should they pander to these requests and the little snipes that crop up in similar threads?

I'm reasonable confident that the forum is pretty insignificant in terms of WHF readership, and lets be blunt, is largely populated by people who are unusually interested in discussing electronic hifi equipment. I do a lot of research - it's a chunk of my professional job and a big role in p/t post-grad study - and if people were telling me to change my research methods to address an online thread on an amateur forum I think I'd be tempted to grab the fly-swatter!

 

[Andrew Everard]

dim_span:oooh ... temper temper!

Not at all, just stating the facts...

I think you have an agenda here, to which I really am not going to pander...

 

[Anonymous]

Rob_manchester:dim_span:

Andrew Everard:Given that we already do blind testing, I see no need to pander to someone of whom I've never heard...

oooh ... temper temper! ...there are loads of small people like me that you have never heard of, and that have bought these interconnects based on reviews from other users ... and who now feel dissappointed

so, it is a good thing that WHF does do blind testing ... so, let's retest these with a few other higher cost ones, and see if the results are the same ...

and lets do it with an independant moderator .... go on, be a sport Andrew! ... costs you nothing, and will make for interesting reading .... will also quell all the recent posts/disputes as regards cables/interconnects ....

so do we have a deal there Andrew?

I've absolutely no idea about the approach to WHF testing (and to be honest it's an awfully long time since I bought the mag, as mags which review products - hifi, phones, computers, cameras - make me spend money I shouldn't!), but if I put myself in their shoes, why on earth should they pander to these requests and the little snipes that crop up in similar threads?

I'm reasonable confident that the forum is pretty insignificant in terms of WHF readership, and lets be blunt, is largely populated by people who are unusually interested in discussing electronic hifi equipment. I do a lot of research - it's a chunk of my professional job and a big role in p/t post-grad study - and if people were telling me to change my research methods to address an online thread on an amateur forum I think I'd be tempted to grab the fly-swatter!

Rob ... all the items I have bought have been from doing my own research and asking questions ... I did not intend to get drawn into this dispute, however, as mentioned, I always speak my mind

as can be seen from my previous posts, I always try to advise where possible, and maybe not everyone always agrees with me, however I always give alternate suggestions which I feel are good

some people do not do much research and buy what is suggested .... I feel gutted, as I have the silver high breeds and have been telling others on this forum (and other forums) to buy them as I feel that they are very good (especially for the price)...

On another forum, these are 18 pages of comments where users have tested these for a lengthy period ... the majority of comments are excellent

These are cheap (think it now costs £20 for an interconnect) ... when run in (approx 40 hrs or so), these sound really good ... I just feel that because it is possibly a small merchant who does not advertise in WHF, that they got a bad review (as with the Gothams) ... I have a strong gut feeling that if these are tested blind (together with 4-5 other higher costing interconnects), the results may be totally different?... well lets see if WHF takes up the challenge, but I am not holding my breath

 

[the record spot]

I've been reading the mag since the 1980s and a subscriber since 1997. I've had faith in the review process throughout and there isn't a whole lot out there to change my mind. Given as I read other titles as well, it should come as no surprise that barring one particular CD player (Saxon - 1 star) they've pretty much been in line more or less with findings elsewhere.

 

[Andrew Everard]

dim_span:I just feel that because it is possibly a small merchant who does not advertise in WHF, that they got a bad review (as with the Gothams) ... I have a strong gut feeling that if these are tested blind (together with 4-5 other higher costing interconnects), the results may be totally different?... well lets see if WHF takes up the challenge, but I am not holding my breath

How many more times? Let me spell it out for the hard of thinking.

a) There is no link between advertising and reviews. I have told you this several times, and still you keep on making your insinuations. Why?

b) We test blind. Forum members have been involved in this blind testing, as you would know if you read the magazine.

 

[Anonymous]

ok, then lets just drop it .... and for the record, I do not have an agenda of anysorts .... I read and participate in a few hifi forums and thats the way I learn about different products, especially the vintage/classic gear ...

I advise people on what I feel is suitable although many often disagree (especially the lower budget components) ... I dont sell hifi products and have no affiliations with any companies who do, or anyone on ebay

 

[plastic penguin]

dim_span:

Oh Ok Andrew ... like I said, I always speak my mind but no offence intended ...

so does that mean WHF is accepting the blind test challenge?

just joking

The Big Question is done blind. If you look at most BQ's our conclusions pretty much mirror WHFI's test reviewers.

 

[Thaiman]

Dim, I have a pair of them cables and they didn't stay in my system more than 3 songs! The sleeve also came off when I pull them off the back of my amp! sorry but imo, they were no different than any other cheap budget cables.

 

[JoelSim]

dim_span:Rob_manchester:dim_span:
Andrew Everard:Given that we already do blind testing, I see no need to pander to someone of whom I've never heard...

oooh ... temper temper! ...there are loads of small people like me that you have never heard of, and that have bought these interconnects based on reviews from other users ... and who now feel dissappointed

so, it is a good thing that WHF does do blind testing ... so, let's retest these with a few other higher cost ones, and see if the results are the same ...

and lets do it with an independant moderator .... go on, be a sport Andrew! ... costs you nothing, and will make for interesting reading .... will also quell all the recent posts/disputes as regards cables/interconnects ....

so do we have a deal there Andrew?

I've absolutely no idea about the approach to WHF testing (and to be honest it's an awfully long time since I bought the mag, as mags which review products - hifi, phones, computers, cameras - make me spend money I shouldn't!), but if I put myself in their shoes, why on earth should they pander to these requests and the little snipes that crop up in similar threads?

I'm reasonable confident that the forum is pretty insignificant in terms of WHF readership, and lets be blunt, is largely populated by people who are unusually interested in discussing electronic hifi equipment. I do a lot of research - it's a chunk of my professional job and a big role in p/t post-grad study - and if people were telling me to change my research methods to address an online thread on an amateur forum I think I'd be tempted to grab the fly-swatter!

Rob ... all the items I have bought have been from doing my own research and asking questions ... I did not intend to get drawn into this dispute, however, as mentioned, I always speak my mind

as can be seen from my previous posts, I always try to advise where possible, and maybe not everyone always agrees with me, however I always give alternate suggestions which I feel are good

some people do not do much research and buy what is suggested .... I feel gutted, as I have the silver high breeds and have been telling others on this forum (and other forums) to buy them as I feel that they are very good (especially for the price)...

On another forum, these are 18 pages of comments where users have tested these for a lengthy period ... the majority of comments are excellent

These are cheap (think it now costs £20 for an interconnect) ... when run in (approx 40 hrs or so), these sound really good ... I just feel that because it is possibly a small merchant who does not advertise in WHF, that they got a bad review (as with the Gothams) ... I have a strong gut feeling that if these are tested blind (together with 4-5 other higher costing interconnects), the results may be totally different?... well lets see if WHF takes up the challenge, but I am not holding my breath

Hifi Racks have just won Product of the Year with their Podium, and they are a small merchant. Beating the likes of Atacama, Apollo, Custom Design, Partington, Target, etc etc etc. I draw this parallel as I and a few others have been very impressed with the sonic qualities of Hifi Racks products in a similar vein to the Gotham and SHB furore.

 

[Andrew Everard]

plastic penguin:The Big Question is done blind. If you
look at most BQ's our conclusions pretty much mirror WHFI's test
reviewers.As i said.

 

[Anonymous]

thaiman, am not going to argue, as you have expensive cabling ...

but can say they need more than 3 songs to burn in ... they need more than 40 hrs (you would have read that on the ebay listing when you bought them) ...

mine also sounded rubbish for the first 8 hrs, and other people who reviewd them found that after 20hrs or so, they sounded really good (for the price paid)

 

[Andrew Everard]

Oh, so expensive cables make no difference, but cable burn-in does?

Need any help pointing that gun at your foot?

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:Oh, so expensive cables make no difference, but cable burn-in does?

Need any help pointing that gun at your foot?

meaning?

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew,

A (kind of) related question. What is it that affects whether very small-scale manufacturers receive reviews in your magazines - I assume firstly you have to be able to get hold of the kit; do you also take into account their scale of production and distribution network, i.e. this company only makes five amps a month so it's not worth reviewing with the scale of our audience? I'm thinking small-scla estuff like Avondale or NVA (post them being available thro dealers).

Rob

 

[Andrew Everard]

dim_span:meaning?

Meaning you're doing a very good job of undermining your own argument...

 

[Andrew Everard]

Rob_manchester:A (kind of) related question. What is it that affects whether very small-scale manufacturers receive reviews in your magazines - I assume firstly you have to be able to get hold of the kit; do you also take into account their scale of production and distribution network, i.e. this company only makes five amps a month so it's not worth reviewing with the scale of our audience? I'm thinking small-scla estuff like Avondale or NVA (post them being available thro dealers).

Any manufacturer is welcome to submit equipment for review, though we do have criteria regarding the availability of the product, concerning the number and geographical spread of retailers, or the nature of online availability/returns policy, etc.

 

[Anonymous]

That's what I'd imagined, given limited mag space/international audience etc.

Rob