Sound quality: Streamer with external DAC

[nopiano]

Bits should just be Bits and all streamers should sound the same
£99 Wiim streamer should sound same a £20,000+ Pink Faun , Grimm , Emerging , Nagra

Same with Dacs £199 Wiim should sound the same as a £250k DCS Varese or Wadax Reference

Fancy Network switches , Cables , Grounding , External PSUs & £5,000 internet cables should make no diiference

Node 2i with an external RME DAC looks like a good Combo
Wiim and a Cambridge would probably be a step sideways Unless you can increase your budget

I notice you carefully wrote ‘should’! 😉🤐😮

 

[David B]

The WiiM Ultra has USB out ... so it should be possible. There are posts on the WiiM community forum about it.

I've never used USB as an audio in/out this way, so I am just not sure if my DAC will accept it, even though the WiiM has the output.
I'll try it for sure!

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

I've never used USB as an audio in/out this way, so I am just not sure if my DAC will accept it, even though the WiiM has the output.
I'll try it for sure!

Do report back - one thing this forum could use is more real world experience reporting!

 

[David B]

Do report back - one thing this forum could use is more real world experience reporting!

Will do!

 

[Witterings]

I've already got a buyer for the Ultra

If they don't go ahead I may possibly be interested in which case let me know ... I very briefly took USB out from a Nano last night into my DAC and believe there was a noticeable gain in SQ but need more time to test it properly.

 

[BigH]

I think there're differences between streamers, changing the power supply, did improve the sound quality on my streamer.

 

[David B]

So, I ordered and received my new WiiM Ultra early, in the end.

I have tested it all weekend, and here are my initial impressions:

Comparing the WiiM with the Node 2i, paired with my RMS DAC, using Coax for both, I can't say that I notice any difference, in terms of overall sound quality, or sound stage, even though, my initial comment from the first quick comparison, would have been that the Node was slightly better to my ears.

After repeating the same track various times (Radiohead - Weird fishes), switching from one streamer to the other, I wasn't sure any more, so in the end, I would say that I can't spot any difference between the two.

Removing the DAC however, purely for testing purposes, I can say that the Node is a slightly more obvious winner, with a warmer sound, and more open sound stage, compared with the WiiM, in my opinion.
Those differences, however, are subtle, in my opinion.

Now, where things get interesting: I was able to use the USB output from the WiiM, and connect it to the DAC, instead of the Coax, and there, I have the best configuration of all, for my equipment, at least.

With this setup, the differences are more noticeable:
The overall sound is warmer, cleaner and more dynamic, with a better definition in space (sound stage).

Big thanks to @Witterings for pointing out the benefits of using the USB connection, to use the DAC clock, instead of the WiiM internal one!
I wasn't aware of this, and probably wouldn't have found out about this on my own...

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

William Hill's odds on David B being a lawyer have shortened to 2:1 by virtue of his use of "in my opinion"!

Love a real world view of equipement. Will be interested in your view of the WiiM software, which (in my opinion) is fantastic.

 

[Witterings]

Now, where things get interesting: I was able to use the USB output from the WiiM, and connect it to the DAC, instead of the Coax, and there, I have the best configuration of all, for my equipment, at least.

With this setup, the differences are more noticeable:
The overall sound is warmer, cleaner and more dynamic, with a better definition in space (sound stage).

That's really useful feedback ... I don't have a WiiM with USB out so I've only been able to test with the Nano's USB out and listening to music last night was completely blown away, I'd reort the same differences you found but it also helps to "clean up" bad recordings that were muddy.

Does the Node 2i have USB out and if so did you compare or is that just for attaching storage?

Just as a general, I've also tested a Pro using my Amp's DAC, a Pro Plus using it's own DAC and the Nano using it's own DAC and agaian my findings mirror yours

Definitely going to try an Ultra and compare to the Nano - both with USB out - in the near future and will keep the WiiM if it's the same.

 

[David B]

William Hill's odds on David B being a lawyer have shortened to 2:1 by virtue of his use of "in my opinion"!

Good one! (I am not)

Will be interested in your view of the WiiM software, which (in my opinion) is fantastic.

It is still a work in progress, but for my specific use (local flac collection) I am having lots of inconveniences, so far.
I have opened a few tickets with WiiM alreay.
Basically, I have gained improvements from Bluesound, but have also lost things that were working better with Bluesound.
Current issues are (in my opinion ):

• PlexAmp chromecast stuttering on a loop after a few seconds (resolved this morning by WiiM support giving me early access to new firmware
• PlexAmp chromecast not displaying artwork onscreen (unresolved and disappointing, as it was the whole point of going with the Ultra and have a screen to begin with)
• Local library not being properly scanned in the mobile app. I end up with the equivalent of Windows File Explorer, no Artist, Album, Genre groupings... pretty unsuable...
• The only thing that works well for me so far, is the native integration of Plex, but it is limited compared with PlexAmp, given that I only use the free version of Plex for now.
  I am not sure that the paid Plex version would bring the features I like from PlexAmp, and there is no try before by option...

 

[David B]

Does the Node 2i have USB out and if so did you compare or is that just for attaching storage?

I will have to try. It has a USB port, but I am not sure that it is a working audio output.

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

FWIW, I'm sticking with my WiiM mini for now as it gives me all the functionality I need (i.e. pure transport). Will be ripping my (limited) CD collection in the new year to host on a NAS.

 

[David B]

FWIW, I'm sticking with my WiiM mini for now as it gives me all the functionality I need (i.e. pure transport). Will be ripping my (limited) CD collection in the new year to host on a NAS.

I'm not sure if my NAS issue is with the app, or with the WD Mycloud NAS that has limited functionalities, that may be causing my libary scanning issue. Hopefully, the WiiM support team will shed some light.
However, the (poor) Windows app does allow me to scan my library, so I think this is an issue with the mobile app, that I find very surprising...

 

[BigH]

So, I ordered and received my new WiiM Ultra early, in the end.

I have tested it all weekend, and here are my initial impressions:

Comparing the WiiM with the Node 2i, paired with my RMS DAC, using Coax for both, I can't say that I notice any difference, in terms of overall sound quality, or sound stage, even though, my initial comment from the first quick comparison, would have been that the Node was slightly better to my ears.

After repeating the same track various times (Radiohead - Weird fishes), switching from one streamer to the other, I wasn't sure any more, so in the end, I would say that I can't spot any difference between the two.

Removing the DAC however, purely for testing purposes, I can say that the Node is a slightly more obvious winner, with a warmer sound, and more open sound stage, compared with the WiiM, in my opinion.
Those differences, however, are subtle, in my opinion.

Now, where things get interesting: I was able to use the USB output from the WiiM, and connect it to the DAC, instead of the Coax, and there, I have the best configuration of all, for my equipment, at least.

With this setup, the differences are more noticeable:
The overall sound is warmer, cleaner and more dynamic, with a better definition in space (sound stage).

Big thanks to @Witterings for pointing out the benefits of using the USB connection, to use the DAC clock, instead of the WiiM internal one!
I wasn't aware of this, and probably wouldn't have found out about this on my own...

Good feedback. I have considered getting a WiiM, l have a Node2 also. I upgraded my Node with an external PSU, did improve the sound.

Sometimes differences are not apparent in short samples, l have found, listening over several hours can be more revealing. Playing at higher volume can also reveal differences.

 

[David B]

Good feedback. I have considered getting a WiiM, l have a Node2 also. I upgraded my Node with an external PSU, did improve the sound.

Sometimes differences are not apparent in short samples, l have found, listening over several hours can be more revealing. Playing at higher volume can also reveal differences.

I completely agree!
As mentioned in an earlier post, my main reason for changing to a new streamer was not primarily related to a sound quality improvement, but rather to resolve a software issue and overall user experience, and my feedback, is only an indication of my first impression...
Thanks for your comment!

 

[BigH]

I completely agree!
As mentioned in an earlier post, my main reason for changing to a new streamer was not primarily related to a sound quality improvement, but rather to resolve a software issue and overall user experience, and my feedback, is only an indication of my first impression...
Thanks for your comment!

I think Bluesound have caused a lot of problems recently. The big update about a year caused me and others problems and l find it worse now. So that's part of the reason for considering changing. But lnnuos prices have gone up considerably, so probably even used, are out my range now.

 

[RJW232]

My understanding would be that the sound quality and sound stage would come purely from the DAC part of those streamers, and the streaming part being simply the digital reading of a numeric file, I would not expect noticeable difference that would justify investing 1000 euros for a Cambridge, instead of 400 for a Wiim ultra.

Streaming is a bit more complicated than that. You are right if you play e.g. an AIFF or WAV file on a PC. But if it's streamed the file is cut into small packets which are sent over a network connection from a server to the streamer. The streamer has to play the packets in the correct order (yes, in a complex network they are not always received sequentially) and be able to respond to network glitches. There are definitely differences in this area between streamers. However, it does not mean a more expensive streamer is better. Typically audio quality gets better when better (= more expensive) components are used. But for a better streaming performance it's more the quality of the software that impact the experience. And you can imagine that if a company sells 100.000 cheaper streamers, there's more budget for better software than if you sell 1000 expensive streamers.

Having said that, I'm using a Wiim Ultra for a few month now and it's a wonderful piece of equipment. If they put it in a metal case, they can charge at least the same as what Cambridge asks for the CXN100.