So, on my day off....

[Thompsonuxb]

Popped into my local Superfi. It was clearly a quite day so the kind assistant offered me a demo. The...

Audiolab 8300a

Arcam FMJ29

And the Musical Fidelity M3i.

Using the Arcam FMJ CDplayer.

Sadly the only speakers available were the B&W 683's (how they justify the price of these speakers..... I do not know)

Anyhoo, it just so happens I had a mix CD in my pocket.

Tracks used

Lauryn Hill - 'I just want him around' (acoustic)

Zara McFarlane 'police and thieves' for the intro.

D'Angelo 'betray my heart' from the Massiah album.

Well....

The Musical Fidelity is a power house of an amp - head and shoulders above the other two....gonna read up on this puppy.

The Arcam Fmj29 is competent....

The Audiolab......I really don't understand this brand - maybe in isolation this amp is fine but in this company it came up well short.

But that said better speakers were needed to get a better idea. It sounded great driving the Mission LX at Bristol last week.

Bought some Ray Lamin...er I'll edit in a minute and almost, nearly bought a Donna summer.....

Can't get over the 683's.... a grand?

 

[Blackdawn]

Popped into my local Superfi. It was clearly a quite day so the kind assistant offered me a demo. The...

Audiolab 8300a

Arcam FMJ29

And the Musical Fidelity M3i.

Using the Arcam FMJ CDplayer.

Sadly the only speakers available were the B&W 683's (how they justify the price of these speakers..... I do not know)

Anyhoo, it just so happens I had a mix CD in my pocket.

Tracks used

Lauryn Hill - 'I just want him around' (acoustic)

Zara McFarlane 'police and thieves' for the intro.

D'Angelo 'betray my heart' from the Massiah album.

Well....

The Musical Fidelity is a power house of an amp - head and shoulders above the other two....gonna read up on this puppy.

The Arcam Fmj29 is competent....

The Audiolab......I really don't understand this brand - maybe in isolation this amp is fine but in this company it came up well short.

But that said better speakers were needed to get a better idea. It sounded great driving the Mission LX at Bristol last week.

Bought some Ray Lamin...er I'll edit in a minute and almost, nearly bought a Donna summer.....

Can't get over the 683's.... a grand?

Hi, What are you upgrading from? Also do you mean the Musical Fidelity M3si? this is newer than the m3i. What don't you like about the Bowers and Wilkins 683 s2?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Not upgrading just browsing... Currently running a Rotel ra-1520 with Mission 782se. (my current point of reference)

It's the latest MF with a £1100 price tag. On better speakers I have no doubt it would shine.

The 683's in this demo were not to my taste - uncontrolled bass with not much else in their favour.

With no tone controls on these amps nothing could be done to address the boom - even ignoring the boom and focusing on midrange detail, midrange and top end were poor.

I asked for them to be swapped but the assistant was a petite woman and couldn't manage to carry another speaker in..... So I said don't bother.

Surprised by them.

 

[rainsoothe]

maybe it was the room? Just sayin', haven't heard them. But I bet they would be great with your rotel ))

 

[MrReaper182]

Audiolab do make lovely CD players.

 

[Blackdawn]

Not upgrading just browsing... Currently running a Rotel ra-1520 with Mission 782se. (my current point of reference)

It's the latest MF with a £1100 price tag. On better speakers I have no doubt it would shine.

The 683's in this demo were not to my taste - uncontrolled bass with not much else in their favour.

With no tone controls on these amps nothing could be done to address the boom - even ignoring the boom and focusing on midrange detail, midrange and top end were poor.

I asked for them to be swapped but the assistant was a petite woman and couldn't manage to carry another speaker in..... So I said don't bother.

Surprised by them.

Looks like you have a decent system. One of the reasons I like the Japanese electronics is that they have really good functionality and useability (tone controls, headphone outputs, lots of inputs/outputs, loudness etc) after all with an integrated amp you may as well integrate as much as possible.

 

[MajorFubar]

Nice read. Thanks for writing and sharing.

Funny you should mention the Audiolab. Back in the day when the original 8000 series pre/power was around, they were on my 'lust after but can not afford' list, they always got great reviews from WHF. Yet decades later, from reading comments here and elsewhere, seems many punters who heard them were a bit nonplussed by them. Perhaps Audiolab amps have a sound that doesn't immediately impress among A/B comparisons with their peers but would impress long term? Would still love a listen.

 

[Jota180]

Nice read. Thanks for writing and sharing.

Funny you should mention the Audiolab. Back in the day when the original 8000 series pre/power was around, they were on my 'lust after but can not afford' list, they always got great reviews from WHF. Yet decades later, from reading comments here and elsewhere, seems many punters who heard them were a bit nonplussed by them. Perhaps Audiolab amps have a sound that doesn't immediately impress among A/B comparisons with their peers but would impress long term? Would still love a listen.

Or they got overly patriotic reviews.

 

[ID.]

Sounds like the B&W house sound. As the biggest in the range the 683s really need quite a big room (to my ears at least).

I thought the 684 are the sweet spot in the 600s2 range, but I have smaller rooms in mind.

 

[lindsayt]

Thanks for that ThompsonUXB.

I find reviews like yours far more informative than the majority of magazine reviews.

Simply because you aren't afraid to say that speakers like the 683's are pants for the price.

I've been deeply unimpressed with the B&W speakers I've heard at price points from £500 to £2000 new.

 

[abacus]

Sound is a personal thing, which is why you must hear something before purchase to make sure that it suits.

As to B & W (Just like all other speakers), for all those that dislike the sound, there will be an equivalent number that think they are the best thing since sliced bread.

With reviews, the art is to find a reviewer that has similar views to yours, as then there is a good chance that if he recommends something, you will like it to.

For me personally, I am out regular listening to live bands, thus any system I have has to be as accurate as possible for the price. (If it’s a bad recording I want to know it’s a bad recording and not have it sugar coated, as it is then much easier to edit it so as to bring it up to scratch)

Bill

 

[spiny norman]

Or they got overly patriotic reviews.

Yeah: often against those dreaded foreign Arcams and things like that.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Nice read. Thanks for writing and sharing.

Funny you should mention the Audiolab. Back in the day when the original 8000 series pre/power was around, they were on my 'lust after but can not afford' list, they always got great reviews from WHF. Yet decades later, from reading comments here and elsewhere, seems many punters who heard them were a bit nonplussed by them. Perhaps Audiolab amps have a sound that doesn't immediately impress among A/B comparisons with their peers but would impress long term? Would still love a listen.

Many years ago I had an 8000P that was fed from an Audio Alchemy transport and DDE V3.0 DAC ( The DDE V3.0 came with a rather snazzy remote and could be used as a pre amp ). A pair of Sonus Faber Concertos completed the system.

The sound was very neutral and never tiring. I also loved the styling. A starkly minimalist black box with just one small red led to show it was working. It essentially disappeared.

 

[Electro]

Sound is a personal thing, which is why you must hear something before purchase to make sure that it suits.

As to B & W (Just like all other speakers), for all those that dislike the sound, there will be an equivalent number that think they are the best thing since sliced bread.

With reviews, the art is to find a reviewer that has similar views to yours, as then there is a good chance that if he recommends something, you will like it to.

For me personally, I am out regular listening to live bands, thus any system I have has to be as accurate as possible for the price. (If it’s a bad recording I want to know it’s a bad recording and not have it sugar coated, as it is then much easier to edit it so as to bring it up to scratch)

Bill

Very much agree with you Bill, my aim has always been to get as near to a live sound in a room with good acoustics , many of my better live recordings sound like the venue itself and the performers have been added to the end of my listening room .*good* .

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Thanks for that ThompsonUXB.

I find reviews like yours far more informative than the majority of magazine reviews.

Simply because you aren't afraid to say that speakers like the 683's are pants for the price.

I've been deeply unimpressed with the B&W speakers I've heard at price points from £500 to £2000 new.

The thing is the assistant knew her stuff. She asked what speakers I owned I told her and she knew them.

I also told her they were a £1000 when new. So she got what to her was a price comparible speaker.

I had to explain after the demo the speakers were a grand back in 2003 and were pitted against the likes of the CM8's, Quad 22l, PMC GB1's and Spendor A5 - speakers that today retail for £1500+ today.

It even beat some of them off in a group test by WHF back then.

If Mission had not fallen down on their quality control with the mid drivers, the 782se would be right up there with the best speakers of that vintage.

Have to admit though tone controls are severely missed.

These amps really need careful matching. I doubt speaker position and soft furnishings would counter the issues I heard.

The 683 sounds particularly cheap to my ears - certainly don't warrant the price tag.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

maybe it was the room? Just sayin', haven't heard them. But I bet they would be great with your rotel ))

Funnily enough I kind of get it now.

The Rotel ra-1520 is a very clean sounding amp - the 'edges' really stand out on instruments - but the bottom end lacks.....juice.

Pairing it with these speakers could bring great results compared to the Missions - which the Rotel imo fail to get the most from. But the overly bassy signature of the 683 speakers could fill in for the Rotels lack of grunt (my Yamaha would sound dire on them though) contributing especially with the lower midrange upper bass were I feel it's issue lie.

That said the Musical Fidelity - an amp that should genuinely be on anyone's short list who desire the Roksan K3 or Hegels , those amps with the big numbers - because it honestly sounds the bizniz.

Looked it up a little on the net and 90wpc and 200wpc have been touted.

It really sounds like a 200wpc amp, you can feel it. But It could not get to grips with the 683's, but given better speakers though...seriously really impressive and @£1000 -if you are looking I strongly recommend you check it out.

Only a pity it had no tone controls
though.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Audiolab do make lovely CD players.

I have a feeling that's there problem.

Played with a 'lesser' source this amp 'WILL' leave you unsatisfied (compared with the other 2 demoed anyway)

Its designed imo of course to work with Audiolabs kit and maybe ad part of a pre power config.

This I speculate simply because of how it sounded.

But if you do demo try it with the LX series or speakers in the £400 pound bracket.

Note: it has the lowest operating power rating of its peers just like the 8200a.....

 

[drummerman]

maybe it was the room? Just sayin', haven't heard them. But I bet they would be great with your rotel ))

Funnily enough I kind of get it now.

The Rotel ra-1520 is a very clean sounding amp - the 'edges' really stand out on instruments - but the bottom end lacks.....juice.

Pairing it with these speakers could bring great results compared to the Missions - which the Rotel imo fail to get the most from. But the overly bassy signature of the 683 speakers could fill in for the Rotels lack of grunt (my Yamaha would sound dire on them though) contributing especially with the lower midrange upper bass were I feel it's issue lie.

That said the Musical Fidelity - an amp that should genuinely be on anyone's short list who desire the Roksan K3 or Hegels , those amps with the big numbers - because it honestly sounds the bizniz.

Looked it up a little on the net and 90wpc and 200wpc have been touted.

It really sounds like a 200wpc amp, you can feel it. But It could not get to grips with the 683's, but given better speakers though...seriously really impressive and @£1000 -if you are looking I strongly recommend you check it out.

Only a pity it had no tone controls though.

The improved M3 certainly looks better internally than its predecessor which, if I remember correctly, only just met its power rating. Looks good too ... as good as a full sized box can look I guess.

As an 'alternative' for under £1000 you can get two Hypex 500w/ch monoblocks from North. Small size, cool running so can be put in a drawer if so desired.

You have to add a pre-amp of sorts but it could still come in well under £1500. Hypex are used in some very well known products, usually vastly more expensive at that power.

 

[wilro15]

Isn't Hypex Class D? I've always found the A/B sound more pleasing.

 

[drummerman]

Isn't Hypex Class D? I've always found the A/B sound more pleasing.

I don't think Class D is what it used to be, at least not in the better and usually more expensive cases. Some implementations, Hypex included, have lower distortion than many conventional topologies.

BelCanto is one user of these modules and if you read the test of Acousticimagery's ATSAH 500 Monoblocks (HifiChoice Dec15) by ChrisWard, a self confessed valve afficionado, those Hypex powered amplifiers have none of the often quoted traits of the bread.

The ATSAH 500's are probably a bargain (if you need all that power) but Nords versions border on a 'give away'.

Still MusicalFidelity's M3si is probably a very nice integrated too.

 

[drummerman]

May add that I am talking out of my backside.

Unlike Thompsonuxb I have not heard the M3si (nor the North's).

All of the above according to reviews and user opinions.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Bought some Ray Lamin...er I'll edit in a minute and almost, nearly bought a Donna summer.....

Nice review Tuxb *smile*

Ooh! What do you mean you 'nearly' bought some Donna? Which one was it? If you need some assistance with your Donna purchase choice I'll be more than pleased to assist *biggrin* If you're more into audioi-visual then her Live and More Encore DVD is a good place to start:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Donna-Summer-Live-More-Encore/dp/B000160QM0/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1457202401&sr=8-4&keywords=live+and+more+encore