So I just purchased a chord silverplus usb cable..

[unsleepable]

I keep saying this but somehow it gets lost in the static.

I use the UCA202 as a simple upgrade to improve the output of desktop computers when used to drive inexpensive hi-fi systems. In each of the cases it appears to do this effectively and improve on the computers own analogue outputs. Maybe these were particularly poor sounding computers, maybe as I stated earlier, it was level related or placebo, I don't know.

On one occasion it replaced a well known £150 dac that was 'on loan' and was considered an improvement by those present. Not scientific, just an impression shared by both the owner and myself.

In these applications it works well and is great vfm.

Are there better usb dacs available? Undoubtably.

Would they do a better job in the context I describe above? Maybe, maybe not.

I think I understood you well, and it was maybe my point that was lost in the static.

If you hear an improvement with the Behringer over straight out of the computer—and I thought you had an iMac, by the way—, then great. The subjective experience is all there is to it after all, and I can't/won't refute what you say you hear. The only thing I can say is that there isn't any particular reason why you should be hearing an improvement.

I also don't doubt for a second that some separate DACs perform actually worse than the computer itself.

 

[unsleepable]

I have the asynchronous SMSL M2 (ES9023), as well as isochronous Native Instruments TA2 (CS4270-CZZ) and Behringer UCA202 (PCM2902). I use a powered hub to power them with LPSUs. No need to splice wires, I just put two bits of tape on the 5V and ground pins inside the USB type A jack plugging in my PC. Only thing going from my PC to the DACs is data. I was aiming at upgrading SNR.

The little Behringer has its place even on a hi-fi forum. People come here with very tight budgets and want suggestions for separates. Something has to give and the digital front can suffer the most in build quality, yet maintain SQ. It's either going to be a Behringer DAC + integrated + speakers; Behringer DAC + actives; or a budget receiver + speakers.

I think that there are more options, like integrated + speakers, and actives. No separate DAC. Leaving DIY options aside, there is really no point in putting money into something that will not result in increased audio quality, more so when the budget is so tight—unless it makes someone happy to have an additional thing dangling around, that is.

Best to start simple and get a decent DAC when the situation allows. As we have discussed in previous occasions, a decent DAC does not need to be particularly expensive anyways.

 

[steve_1979]

Actually, I imagine it is a LOT better than many headphone outputs on PCs.

I have a very similar device, equally cheap, from Roland, the Edirol UA-1EX.

It performs much better than the laptop output.

Also, a good way of testing is with the online Aliasing test here

The internal sound card aliases terribly, the cheap, but decent USB Edirol does not.

I don't know if your comment means that you are using it as a headphone amplifier, but that's not really the subject of this discussion.

Anyways, you make a valid point. The Behringer could also be recommended as a cheap headphone amplifier for high impedance headphones.

The Behringer is a pretty good quality DAC when outputing audio to the fixed volume RCA sockets but the variable volume output from the 3.5mm headphone socket isn't all that great and I noticed a bit of channel imbalance at low volume from the 3.5mm socket.

 

[Vladimir]

Cheap integrateds don't have USB DACs and many will not accept receivers as a recommendation. So we are left with an external USB DAC as a must.

How about when someone comes in with 200 quid budget, already has an amp and wants suggestion for new speakers and after 15 posts oh yeah, and a DAC?

I really don't see the UCA202 being recommended unless in such special situations where the DAC is an afterthought.

 

[steve_1979]

My point is that the UCA202 is in no way an upgrade from a line-level output straight from the computer—unless you start hacking it a la Vlad. So the only situation in which I can see this DAC rightfully recommended is when a line-level output is needed—maybe because the computer doesn't have one—, but no better quality than that obtained straight from the computer is required.

Actually, I imagine it is a LOT better than many headphone outputs on PCs.

I have a very similar device, equally cheap, from Roland, the Edirol UA-1EX.

It performs much better than the laptop output.

Also, a good way of testing is with the online Aliasing test here

The internal sound card aliases terribly, the cheap, but decent USB Edirol does not.

+1

The Behringer is better then the headphone output from my PC as it has noticably less background noise.

 

[unsleepable]

Cheap integrateds don't have USB DACs and many will not accept receivers as a recommendation. So we are left with an external USB DAC as a must.

How about when someone comes in with 200 quid budget, already has an amp and wants suggestion for new speakers and after 15 posts oh yeah, and a DAC?

I really don't see the UCA202 being recommended unless in such special situations where the DAC is an afterthought.

Well, most desktop computers have a line-level output. A jack-to-RCA cable would suffice. And unless money allows to buy an upgrade to that, it's probably not good advice to tell someone to buy what basically is another line-level output, but over USB.

 

[unsleepable]

The Behringer is a pretty good quality DAC when outputing audio to the fixed volume RCA sockets but the variable volume output from the 3.5mm headphone socket isn't all that great and I noticed a bit of channel imbalance at low volume from the 3.5mm socket.

+1

The Behringer is better then the headphone output from my PC as it has noticably less background noise.

I didn't really understand if you like it for headphones or not. What headphones do you use it with?

 

[Vladimir]

PC with a proper sound card? Yes. I'll even take onboard audio from an ASUS MB. But everything else, especially laptop outputs were so noisy and muddy IME, I would rather add a $20 Behringer in the package to make sure some acceptable level of fidelity is maintained.

 

[unsleepable]

PC with a proper sound card? Yes. I'll even take onboard audio from an ASUS MB. But everything else, especially laptop outputs were so noisy and muddy IME, I would rather add a $20 Behringer in the package to make sure some acceptable level of fidelity is maintained.

And why do you think you heard those differences between computers? Most audio solutions integrated in motherboards use the same or very similar chipsets. I believe Asus employs Realtek, just like pretty much everybody else.

 

[Vladimir]

In PC geek land years before ASUS began its Xonar series, there was shared knowledge that if you had ASUS motherboard your audio will be excellent without any need for added soundcards. If you could save a slot and PSU resurces, you would. Those guys simply did better implementation of onboard audio than their competitors. And to no surprise ASUS began the Xonar series in 2008 and entered the audiophile digital audio market soon after.

I bought ASUS motherboards, never used a soundcard and never felt my PC audio was behind my CDPs. And then I bought an HP laptop...

 

[steve_1979]

The Behringer is a pretty good quality DAC when outputing audio to the fixed volume RCA sockets but the variable volume output from the 3.5mm headphone socket isn't all that great and I noticed a bit of channel imbalance at low volume from the 3.5mm socket.

I didn't really understand if you like it for headphones or not. What headphones do you use it with?

The fixed output RCA sockets are very good quality when used with a seperate pre-amp into a hifi system.

The 3.5mm variable output socket for use with headphones is ok quality but not great. You can't expect everything for such a low price. The DAC section is very good but the headphone amplifier section isn't.

I've also tried the 3.5mm variable output as a DAC/pre into active speakers which works fine if you're on a tight budget and have active speakers that have a variable gain control on them so that the Behringer volume is high enough for the channel imbalance to not be an issue. But with my DM5 active speakers (which have a highish input sensitivity and no built in gain control) the channel imbalance at very low volume was a slight issue.

My Behringer DAC is currently sitting in a draw unused. I have the O2 DAC/amp for the HD700 headphones and a Yamaha AVR which is used as a DAC/pre for the DM5 speakers.

 

[davedotco]

I keep saying this but somehow it gets lost in the static.

I use the UCA202 as a simple upgrade to improve the output of desktop computers when used to drive inexpensive hi-fi systems. In each of the cases it appears to do this effectively and improve on the computers own analogue outputs. Maybe these were particularly poor sounding computers, maybe as I stated earlier, it was level related or placebo, I don't know.

On one occasion it replaced a well known £150 dac that was 'on loan' and was considered an improvement by those present. Not scientific, just an impression shared by both the owner and myself.

In these applications it works well and is great vfm.

Are there better usb dacs available? Undoubtably.

Would they do a better job in the context I describe above? Maybe, maybe not.

I think I understood you well, and it was maybe my point that was lost in the static.

If you hear an improvement with the Behringer over straight out of the computer—and I thought you had an iMac, by the way—, then great. The subjective experience is all there is to it after all, and I can't/won't refute what you say you hear. The only thing I can say is that there isn't any particular reason why you should be hearing an improvement.

I also don't doubt for a second that some separate DACs perform actually worse than the computer itself.

More static.

I have never said that I use a UCA202 at home, I don't and never have. I use a Macbook Pro or an iThing and stream via AEX.

I came across the Behringer in a studio situation where several of them are used to extract sound from visiting/clients computers. The studio uses Benchmark Dac1s and Dac1 usbs for 'critical' use and the little Behringer has always stacked up very well.

I was so impressed that I have recommended and installed the device for several friends who wanted decent SQ from their computers but have modest systems. It has always worked perfectly and been well recieved. These were not hi-end applications and I suspect that, had I suggested a £200 model, I would have been told "no thanks".

This has led me to suggest the Behringer on here in comparable situations, budget and mid-fi applications where budget is tight or where the money can be better used elsewhere.

 

[steve_1979]

In PC geek land years before ASUS began its Xonar series, there was shared knowledge that if you had ASUS motherboard your audio will be excellent without any need for added soundcards. If you could save a slot and PSU resurces, you would. Those guys simply did better implementation of onboard audio than their competitors. And to no surprise ASUS began the Xonar series in 2008 and entered the audiophile digital audio market soon after.

I bought ASUS motherboards, never used a soundcard and never felt my PC audio was behind my CDPs. And then I bought an HP laptop...

IME the analogue output from a PC can vary considerably in quality from the downright awful cheap Dell workstation type PC's to HiFi quality audibly transparent ones with a good quality motherboard and/or soundcard.

Also the inside of a PC case is very RFI noisy and can cause even good internal soundcards to have audible hiss or clicks which is why it's best to use either an external soundcard or an internal soundcard which has a RFI shield cover on it to avoid any RFI effecting the sound.

 

[unsleepable]

More static.

I have never said that I use a UCA202 at home, I don't and never have. I use a Macbook Pro or an iThing and stream via AEX.

I came across the Behringer in a studio situation where several of them are used to extract sound from visiting/clients computers. The studio uses Benchmark Dac1s and Dac1 usbs for 'critical' use and the little Behringer has always stacked up very well.

I was so impressed that I have recommended and installed the device for several friends who wanted decent SQ from their computers but have modest systems. It has always worked perfectly and been well recieved. These were not hi-end applications and I suspect that, had I suggested a £200 model, I would have been told "no thanks".

This has led me to suggest the Behringer on here in comparable situations, budget and mid-fi applications where budget is tight or where the money can be better used elsewhere.

Dave, what's your point. As you can understand, it doesn't matter where or with which computer you had your mystical experience with the Behringer. It doesn't change my point the least.

 

[unsleepable]

In PC geek land years before ASUS began its Xonar series, there was shared knowledge that if you had ASUS motherboard your audio will be excellent without any need for added soundcards. If you could save a slot and PSU resurces, you would. Those guys simply did better implementation of onboard audio than their competitors. And to no surprise ASUS began the Xonar series in 2008 and entered the audiophile digital audio market soon after.

I bought ASUS motherboards, never used a soundcard and never felt my PC audio was behind my CDPs. And then I bought an HP laptop...

IME the analogue output from a PC can vary considerably in quality from the downright awful cheap Dell workstation type PC's to HiFi quality audibly transparent ones with a good quality motherboard and/or soundcard.

Also the inside of a PC case is very RFI noisy and can cause even good internal soundcards to have audible hiss or clicks which is why it's best to use either an external soundcard or an internal soundcard which has a RFI shield cover on it to avoid any RFI effecting the sound.

In my experience, the integrated audio implementation in most motherboards will have a similar performance. It's not only because of the commonly used Realtek solution, but also because they typically connect to the South Bridge—as does USB—, which is also governed by common chipsets. The resulting performance will vary more on other factors such as the power supply used in the computer, and therefore can be noticeably different from one computer to another. But then, the power supply used by an integrated audio solution is the same that uses a USB device plugged to the same motherboard if it feeds from the port.

There are some delicatessen solutions such as upgradeable op-amps and noise filtering in Gigabyte and Asustek motherboards, but I've never tried one of those to see what difference they make.

 

[Vladimir]

Notice the differences in implementation on these 3 budget boards.

 

[steve_1979]

www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733.html

 

[Myers]

I wouldn't call the DELL Workstations cheap, there are far worse - I've had dozens+ of desktop PC's I've fixed & or built & IMO the onboard sound chips are probably bettered by an external DAC & at some point they usually get connected to my cheapish 'DAC Destroyer' USB DAC - Frankly I've never really noticed any differences in sound quality with the USB DAC regardless of the PSU/Mainboard in use, albeit the speakers are reasonably humble JBL Control 1 Pros - I upgraded the PSU recently on this PC from a bog standard to a half decent Powercool with no change I could detect in sound though the Mainboard isn’t expensive being an MSI, though I never really expected any change in SQ & I probably listen to the PC system more than the main lounge one.

 

[Vladimir]

www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733.html

The results page.

Well that should shut everyone up.

 

[TrevC]

http://nwavguy.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/behringer-uca202-review.html

 

[Vladimir]

http://nwavguy.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/behringer-uca202-review.html

Including that guy.

 

[TrevC]

http://nwavguy.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/behringer-uca202-review.html

Including that guy.

Why would it shut him up?

 

[Vladimir]

http://nwavguy.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/behringer-uca202-review.html

Including that guy.

Why would it shut him up?

The onboard audio with 70 ohms output impedance went indistinguishable compared both to the O2 and the Benchmark. Even with wildly varying impedance vs frequency of the Senn HD800s. He was quite ademant with the 1/8 rule in electric damping, but the 32 ohm AKG did fine despite. *unknw*