So I just purchased a chord silverplus usb cable..

[Vladimir]

Any recomendation for a spdif - usb converters? Im reading about the audiophilleo + purepower or the audiobyte hydra. Both is pretty expensive though

I wouldn't buy nowadays an Audiophilleo. I usually find power supply upgrades for DACs a bit unreasonable, seeing as they are low-powered devices anyways and it shouldn't be so expensive to sell them with the right power supply from the beginning. But Audiophilleo now offers power supply upgrades for their USB-to-SPDIF converters, and I think that's rather excessive.

A converter that has gotten popular is the Gustard U12. You can find it in Shenzhenaudio.com—either in their web site or in their shop in eBay. With VAT and duties it should be around £135.

I think 60$ for a linear regulated power supply isn't that unreasonable. I have 2, one set at 5V/2.5A for my DAC and one set at 24V/1A for the headphone amp. I also have an old linear regulated 5V/1.7A brick as a reserve.

Switch mode unregulated power supplies (brick or phone chargers) that come with all DACs and small amps are not true DC sources. A lot of AC ripple comes through and their power output varies with the mains AC. In not so many words they are absolute rubbish.

- Problems With Unregulated Power Supplies

The first problem is that there’s a practical limit on how much you can reduce the ripple voltage. Unregulated supplies are used whenever small size and/or low cost are the primary design goals. Therefore, the filter cap ends up being on the small side, so all practical unregulated supplies put out a significant amount of ripple.

The other main problem is that an unregulated power supply simply puts out an analog of the AC input voltage as DC: any variation on the AC side is directly translated into DC variation. Let’s say you’re using the 120 VAC to 20 VDC power supply depicted above, and that there’s a brownout that drops the wall voltage to 108 VAC. Because the transformer puts out 1/6 the input voltage no matter what that is, the power supply will put out 18 V as long as the brownout lasts. The same sort of thing happens if your wall power has hash or voltage spikes on it: the ugliness appears on the power supply’s output, albeit in a reduced form.

These DC artifacts are collectively called noise and ripple, often abbreviated “N+R.”

- Part of a Solution: Regulation

Given that the AC wall voltage varies so much, electrical engineers came up with the idea of power supply “regulation.” This means the DC output voltage is mostly independent of the AC input voltage. One regulated power supply I have is rated to put out a stable DC voltage given anywhere from 108-132 VAC, a 22% variation. An unregulated power supply would simply vary its output by 22% given the same supply range.

There are two kinds of regulation: linear and switch-mode.

- Linear Regulated Power Supplies

Most linear power supplies are simply an unregulated power supply followed by some kind of linear regulator. The most common linear regulators are monolithic regulators, being a regulator circuit on a single chip. Occasionally you see linear regulators made of discrete circuitry.

A linear regulator is designed to put out a particular voltage given an input voltage within a fairly wide range. For example, the standard 7815 monolithic regulator is designed to put out 15 VDC given anywhere from 17.5 to 30 V as input. The difference between the minimum input voltage and the output voltage is called the dropout voltage. When the input voltage is below the dropout point, the regulator doesn’t regulate the voltage. When the input is above the dropout point, the regulator works. The voltage dropped across the regulator is turned into heat.

Linear power supplies aren’t perfect. Some noise and ripple still gets through the regulator, and regulators will add some noise of their own. Here are some measured numbers of various linear supplies under a constant 0.25 A load:

Power supply description / N+R

Elpac WM080 / 1.8 mV

Creek OBH-2 / 0.25 mV

High-quality LM317-based DIY supply / 0.06 mV

Source

 

[kingsap]

Any recomendation for a spdif - usb converters? Im reading about the audiophilleo + purepower or the audiobyte hydra. Both is pretty expensive though

I wouldn't buy nowadays an Audiophilleo. I usually find power supply upgrades for DACs a bit unreasonable, seeing as they are low-powered devices anyways and it shouldn't be so expensive to sell them with the right power supply from the beginning. But Audiophilleo now offers power supply upgrades for their USB-to-SPDIF converters, and I think that's rather excessive.

A converter that has gotten popular is the Gustard U12. You can find it in Shenzhenaudio.com—either in their web site or in their shop in eBay. With VAT and duties it should be around £135.

Been reading lots of information on usb spdif converter, and the one that gets my inteest is the yellowtec puc2 lite. Some says its better than the audiophilleo for half the price. Not much info though.

I actually used an externsl power supply for my dac, its diy and really improve the performance of the dac. The power supply of the nad m51 is not that good. I agree though the purepower is really expensive

 

[Alec]

I don't think you're the only one feeling out of place around here these days, though perhaps not all for the same reason. ;-)

Most forum members are made to feel like outcasts here these days.

Cobblers

 

[kingsap]

Any recomendation for a spdif - usb converters? Im reading about the audiophilleo + purepower or the audiobyte hydra. Both is pretty expensive though

I wouldn't buy nowadays an Audiophilleo. I usually find power supply upgrades for DACs a bit unreasonable, seeing as they are low-powered devices anyways and it shouldn't be so expensive to sell them with the right power supply from the beginning. But Audiophilleo now offers power supply upgrades for their USB-to-SPDIF converters, and I think that's rather excessive.

A converter that has gotten popular is the Gustard U12. You can find it in Shenzhenaudio.com—either in their web site or in their shop in eBay. With VAT and duties it should be around £135.

The gustard u12 is looking really interesting...especially for the price

 

[steve_1979]

I don't think you're the only one feeling out of place around here these days, though perhaps not all for the same reason. ;-)

Most forum members are made to feel like outcasts here these days.

My "I don't belong here" comment was just a joke BTW.

I think this forum is great with friendly people and good banter (except for the cable and bit-rate threads which are the same everywhere).

 

[relocated]

I don't think you're the only one feeling out of place around here these days, though perhaps not all for the same reason. ;-)

Most forum members are made to feel like outcasts here these days.

Cobblers

Exactly right Alec. The Forum has been screwed over by the hopeless and pathetic relaunch of the website. It was nowhere near ready to launch, nothing from the Beta people seemed to have been taken notice of and the people responsible just hid away and achieved so little at a snails pace.

It is such a shame. We had managed to move on from some of the demonisation of 'active' owners and the wholly unproductive bullying of those who favoured one particular manufacturer. Now there are, seemingly, so few people left who are sufficiently experienced and knowledgeable in the ways of hifi to provide consistent safe and sensible advice to newbies AND have broader ranging subjects to mull over with fellow forumers.

The website now runs, for me anyway, at a reasonable pace but I fear the Forum has been too damaged and that it will never regain its rigour. Shame.

 

[unsleepable]

I think 60$ for a linear regulated power supply isn't that unreasonable. I have 2, one set at 5V/2.5A for my DAC and one set at 24V/1A for the headphone amp. I also have an old linear regulated 5V/1.7A brick as a reserve.

Switch mode unregulated power supplies (brick or phone chargers) that come with all DACs and small amps are not true DC sources. A lot of AC ripple comes through and their power output varies with the mains AC. In not so many words they are absolute rubbish.

I suppose this would depend on what you get to upgrade with $60. Have you still got the Behringer UCA202, Vlad? If you cut the power wires in the USB cable, and high-jack it with an external power supply, you are at least partially isolating the DAC electrically from the computer. So it's no wonder that you hear an improvement. And it could be that this is not necessarily because the power supply is linear.

Indeed, re-clocking and full isolation might bring further improvements.

Anyways, I think what you said shows my point: accompanying a DAC with an appropriate power supply is not so expensive that it needs to be sold as an upgrade. And another point: as handy, convenient, and hassle-free as the Behringer is, it should be scarcely recommended in a hi-fi forum.

 

[cheeseboy]

And another point: as handy, convenient, and hassle-free as the Behringer is, it should be scarcely recommended in a hi-fi forum.

out of interest why?

 

[unsleepable]

out of interest why?

The Behringer UCA202 has been extensively discussed in this forum as some members were set to constantly recommend it on the basis that all DACs sound the same, so this is all you needed. Experiments like Vlad's with the power supply, or kingsap's with the cable, show that this is far from the truth. In order to provide a consistently good performance, a DAC should at least isolate itself and its analogue output from electrical noise, and re-clock the audio signal to reduce jitter. The UCA202 does nothing of the sort.

I think that a DAC for a hi-fi setup should satisfy as a minimum these requirements. And then it's still possible to talk about the particular voicing that some DACs have, as they all don't sound the same.

 

[cheeseboy]

out of interest why?

The Behringer UCA202 has been extensively discussed in this forum as some members were set to constantly recommend it on the basis that all DACs sound the same, so this is all you needed. Experiments like Vlad's with the power supply, or kingsap's with the cable, show that this is far from the truth. In order to provide a consistently good performance, a DAC should at least isolate itself and its analogue output from electrical noise, and re-clock the audio signal to reduce jitter. The UCA202 does nothing of the sort.

I think that a DAC for a hi-fi setup should satisfy as a minimum these requirements. And then it's still possible to talk about the particular voicing that some DACs have, as they all don't sound the same.

fair enough, and thank you for the reply.

I will however disagree with you though as I think it's still got every right to be included given it is something that can be used. Once you start placing such restrictions on what should/could be talked about it's a very slippery slope, and given there's also quite a lot of so called hifi dacs that don't re-clock the audio, you will end up with a smaller range of devices.

Doesn't mean I disagree with what you are saying in principle btw...

 

[davedotco]

out of interest why?

The Behringer UCA202 has been extensively discussed in this forum as some members were set to constantly recommend it on the basis that all DACs sound the same, so this is all you needed. Experiments like Vlad's with the power supply, or kingsap's with the cable, show that this is far from the truth. In order to provide a consistently good performance, a DAC should at least isolate itself and its analogue output from electrical noise, and re-clock the audio signal to reduce jitter. The UCA202 does nothing of the sort.

I think that a DAC for a hi-fi setup should satisfy as a minimum these requirements. And then it's still possible to talk about the particular voicing that some DACs have, as they all don't sound the same.

The UCA202 is not a hi-end dac and never will be for the reasons explained above.

What it is, is an outstanding vfm budget dac that, in many circumstances, does a subjectively fine job within the context of a budget system. I have used several to provide simple inexpensive solutions in this context and subjectively it sounds very good, better than a 'famous name' £150 dac on one occassion.

Regarding the final point, I think that any compedent modern dac chip will be audibly transparent, the specs tell us that, but a useable hi-fi dac is much more than just a chip and it is the implementation and willful voicing that makes them sound different.

 

[unsleepable]

fair enough, and thank you for the reply.

I will however disagree with you though as I think it's still got every right to be included given it is something that can be used. Once you start placing such restrictions on what should/could be talked about it's a very slippery slope, and given there's also quite a lot of so called hifi dacs that don't re-clock the audio, you will end up with a smaller range of devices.

Doesn't mean I disagree with what you are saying in principle btw...

The UCA202 is not a hi-end dac and never will be for the reasons explained above.

What it is, is an outstanding vfm budget dac that, in many circumstances, does a subjectively fine job within the context of a budget system. I have used several to provide simple inexpensive solutions in this context and subjectively it sounds very good, better than a 'famous name' £150 dac on one occassion.

Regarding the final point, I think that any compedent modern dac chip will be audibly transparent, the specs tell us that, but a useable hi-fi dac is much more than just a chip and it is the implementation and willful voicing that makes them sound different.

Well, before I said scarcely rather than never recommended. But I see how my last remarks may have sound more definite.

My point is that the UCA202 is in no way an upgrade from a line-level output straight from the computer—unless you start hacking it a la Vlad. So the only situation in which I can see this DAC rightfully recommended is when a line-level output is needed—maybe because the computer doesn't have one—, but no better quality than that obtained straight from the computer is required.

 

[TrevC]

out of interest why?

The Behringer UCA202 has been extensively discussed in this forum as some members were set to constantly recommend it on the basis that all DACs sound the same, so this is all you needed. Experiments like Vlad's with the power supply, or kingsap's with the cable, show that this is far from the truth. In order to provide a consistently good performance, a DAC should at least isolate itself and its analogue output from electrical noise, and re-clock the audio signal to reduce jitter. The UCA202 does nothing of the sort.

I think that a DAC for a hi-fi setup should satisfy as a minimum these requirements. And then it's still possible to talk about the particular voicing that some DACs have, as they all don't sound the same.

I recommended it because it sounds brilliant and is also very inexpensive. Nobody should be put off by the twaddle above.

 

[drummerman]

Indeed. Modern DAC chips also come with manufacturers instructions on how best to implement.

Just look at something like Audioquest's Dragonfly. So tiny even taking in consideration it is USB powered, so simple and it measures well too.

It kind of makes you wonder how by how much certain manufacturer undo what is a relatively simple and straitforward design process by making it more complicated than necessary.

One look at say a circuit board of a Krell and similar is an eye opener. At least the likes of Audio Research include tubes which may explain the added complexity, the result of which is open to debate.

 

[TrevC]

My point is that the UCA202 is in no way an upgrade from a line-level output straight from the computer—

Not my experience. It totally outclassed the line outs from my computer, a big improvement. Not a fantasy difference like those that recommend mains leads and interconnects.

 

[unsleepable]

My point is that the UCA202 is in no way an upgrade from a line-level output straight from the computer—

Not my experience. It totally outclassed the line outs from my computer, a big improvement. Not a fantasy difference like those that recommend mains leads and interconnects.

Quite probably, the very same.

 

[davedotco]

fair enough, and thank you for the reply.

I will however disagree with you though as I think it's still got every right to be included given it is something that can be used. Once you start placing such restrictions on what should/could be talked about it's a very slippery slope, and given there's also quite a lot of so called hifi dacs that don't re-clock the audio, you will end up with a smaller range of devices.

Doesn't mean I disagree with what you are saying in principle btw...

The UCA202 is not a hi-end dac and never will be for the reasons explained above.

What it is, is an outstanding vfm budget dac that, in many circumstances, does a subjectively fine job within the context of a budget system. I have used several to provide simple inexpensive solutions in this context and subjectively it sounds very good, better than a 'famous name' £150 dac on one occassion.

Regarding the final point, I think that any compedent modern dac chip will be audibly transparent, the specs tell us that, but a useable hi-fi dac is much more than just a chip and it is the implementation and willful voicing that makes them sound different.

Well, before I said scarcely rather than never recommended. But I see how my last remarks may have sound more definite.

My point is that the UCA202 is in no way an upgrade from a line-level output straight from the computer—unless you start hacking it a la Vlad. So the only situation in which I can see this DAC rightfully recommended is when a line-level output is needed—maybe because the computer doesn't have one—, but no better quality than that obtained straight by the computer is required.

I disagree.

I have used this dac on several occasions to bypass onboard soundcards or headphone outputs used as line outs.

Subjectively it has worked very well and has had a positive effect. Not scientific I grant you but on at least a couple of occassions the noisefloor was noticeably lower, hence a 'cleaner' sound.

I totally understand what you are saying, it is a dac of limited means and should be approached as such, but there are practical benefits to using the UCA202, that seem to be consistent over the rather small number of times I have used it.

Given the low cost of the device, I have used it without much in the way of deep analysis, I have always found that it does it's job very well, could be the percieved reduction in noise, maybe output level or simply placebo, but it appears to work well in the context in which it is used.

 

[fr0g]

My point is that the UCA202 is in no way an upgrade from a line-level output straight from the computer—unless you start hacking it a la Vlad. So the only situation in which I can see this DAC rightfully recommended is when a line-level output is needed—maybe because the computer doesn't have one—, but no better quality than that obtained straight from the computer is required.

Actually, I imagine it is a LOT better than many headphone outputs on PCs.

I have a very similar device, equally cheap, from Roland, the Edirol UA-1EX.

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
Ri73mw/UnoBmvpzA0E3vZSzcnZGFpqZB45B4Afss5+btfKyDf7KoGwRNiZo0a8zxJ6krLRFWhERAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBERAREQEREBYtRs6F+b4mOPMtBPxtdZSIIZtzdOxxwDEy4JjOZBGYLb652y1WlvhJBBaRqCLfJWasWu2dFMLSNB5HQjyIzUxMV9JJl+ywXTdPjkt7t/Y3ckBryQ7TEMx6g5/Bb3Y+68MVnv+tfkbuGQ8m/vdTBHt39gvncHyAiIEHPLF0A1I6qfgL9RaxRERB//2Q==

It performs much better than the laptop output.

Also, a good way of testing is with the online Aliasing test here

The internal sound card aliases terribly, the cheap, but decent USB Edirol does not.

 

[TrevC]

My point is that the UCA202 is in no way an upgrade from a line-level output straight from the computer—

Not my experience. It totally outclassed the line outs from my computer, a big improvement. Not a fantasy difference like those that recommend mains leads and interconnects.

Quite probably, the very same.

So DACs all sound the same, in your opinion? Have you tried the Behringer?

 

[unsleepable]

I disagree.

I have used this dac on several occasions to bypass onboard soundcards or headphone outputs used as line outs.

Subjectively it has worked very well and has had a positive effect. Not scientific I grant you but on at least a couple of occassions the noisefloor was noticeably lower, hence a 'cleaner' sound.

I totally understand what you are saying, it is a dac of limited means and should be approached as such, but there are practical benefits to using the UCA202, that seem to be consistent over the rather small number of times I have used it.

Given the low cost of the device, I have used it without much in the way of deep analysis, I have always found that it does it's job very well, could be the percieved reduction in noise, maybe output level or simply placebo, but it appears to work well in the context in which it is used.

That's fair enough. If you can hear the difference, if this DAC does it for you, there is nothing else to add, really. Just know that there is no particular reason why you should be hearing this difference.

 

[unsleepable]

So DACs all sound the same, in your opinion? Have you tried the Behringer?

Have you really read this thread? If there is something you don't understand, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[unsleepable]

Actually, I imagine it is a LOT better than many headphone outputs on PCs.

I have a very similar device, equally cheap, from Roland, the Edirol UA-1EX.

It performs much better than the laptop output.

Also, a good way of testing is with the online Aliasing test here

The internal sound card aliases terribly, the cheap, but decent USB Edirol does not.

I don't know if your comment means that you are using it as a headphone amplifier, but that's not really the subject of this discussion.

Anyways, you make a valid point. The Behringer could also be recommended as a cheap headphone amplifier for high impedance headphones.

 

[davedotco]

I disagree.

I have used this dac on several occasions to bypass onboard soundcards or headphone outputs used as line outs.

Subjectively it has worked very well and has had a positive effect. Not scientific I grant you but on at least a couple of occassions the noisefloor was noticeably lower, hence a 'cleaner' sound.

I totally understand what you are saying, it is a dac of limited means and should be approached as such, but there are practical benefits to using the UCA202, that seem to be consistent over the rather small number of times I have used it.

Given the low cost of the device, I have used it without much in the way of deep analysis, I have always found that it does it's job very well, could be the percieved reduction in noise, maybe output level or simply placebo, but it appears to work well in the context in which it is used.

That's fair enough. If you can hear the difference, if this DAC does it for you, there is nothing else to add, really. Just know that there is no particular reason why you should be hearing this difference.

I keep saying this but somehow it gets lost in the static.

I use the UCA202 as a simple upgrade to improve the output of desktop computers when used to drive inexpensive hi-fi systems. In each of the cases it appears to do this effectively and improve on the computers own analogue outputs. Maybe these were particularly poor sounding computers, maybe as I stated earlier, it was level related or placebo, I don't know.

On one occasion it replaced a well known £150 dac that was 'on loan' and was considered an improvement by those present. Not scientific, just an impression shared by both the owner and myself.

In these applications it works well and is great vfm.

Are there better usb dacs available? Undoubtably.

Would they do a better job in the context I describe above? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[TrevC]

So DACs all sound the same, in your opinion? Have you tried the Behringer?

Have you really read this thread? If there is something you don't understand, please don't hesitate to ask.

You suggested that the real difference I heard was akin to the imaginary differences the hifi religious hear when replacing mains leads and the like. My conclusion was that perhaps you must think all DACs sound the same. I don't understand why you would dismiss out of hand a cheap device you have never heard.

 

[Vladimir]

I think 60$ for a linear regulated power supply isn't that unreasonable. I have 2, one set at 5V/2.5A for my DAC and one set at 24V/1A for the headphone amp. I also have an old linear regulated 5V/1.7A brick as a reserve.

Switch mode unregulated power supplies (brick or phone chargers) that come with all DACs and small amps are not true DC sources. A lot of AC ripple comes through and their power output varies with the mains AC. In not so many words they are absolute rubbish.

I suppose this would depend on what you get to upgrade with $60. Have you still got the Behringer UCA202, Vlad? If you cut the power wires in the USB cable, and high-jack it with an external power supply, you are at least partially isolating the DAC electrically from the computer. So it's no wonder that you hear an improvement. And it could be that this is not necessarily because the power supply is linear.

Indeed, re-clocking and full isolation might bring further improvements.

Anyways, I think what you said shows my point: accompanying a DAC with an appropriate power supply is not so expensive that it needs to be sold as an upgrade. And another point: as handy, convenient, and hassle-free as the Behringer is, it should be scarcely recommended in a hi-fi forum.

I have the asynchronous SMSL M2 (ES9023), as well as isochronous Native Instruments TA2 (CS4270-CZZ) and Behringer UCA202 (PCM2902). I use a powered hub to power them with LPSUs. No need to splice wires, I just put two bits of tape on the 5V and ground pins inside the USB type A jack plugging in my PC. Only thing going from my PC to the DACs is data. I was aiming at upgrading SNR.

The little Behringer has its place even on a hi-fi forum. People come here with very tight budgets and want suggestions for separates. Something has to give and the digital front can suffer the most in build quality, yet maintain SQ. It's either going to be a Behringer DAC + integrated + speakers; Behringer DAC + actives; or a budget receiver + speakers.