Small speakers required. Must be special.

[AlmaataKZ]

Have to vote for my PMCs (the walnut is lovely)

I have heard PMC DB1is and GB1is with a NaimUniti and also with other Naim (and non-Naim) equipment and they are excellent with a unique bass quality that is very addictive (even if transmission line loudspeakers aren't supposed to work properly in small sizes )

I may even take up a certain Gramophone magazine review suggestion and try them with my M-CR603 one day.

If I do get them, they will be in Oak and fixed on the walls (with PMC brackets) because I hate stands.

I definately want to try the two small PMC models. Am I right to think they should be good on bass due to TL design?

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Indeed. But bargain ex-demo and used DB1is are far more affordable to me. (£450 - £650 typically.)

I prefer loudspeakers to go near the wall anyway. The room is for people. Loudspeakers should know their place

I have tamed the proliferation of boxes and cables and I won't have any encroachment again. (I am enjoying the extra room too much.)

Absolutely! So, to eliminate an amp, I need to go active. But if the most interesting active one (AVI) is lean I then will want a sub, so will be going back up on the box count. This makes me think PMC... Hmmmm...

 

[shooter]

no spdif input.

You want spdif input?

no, it's a 'nice to have'. I was camparing with the AVIs.

Ah, okay.

How about the Dynaudio BM range?

Studio monitors pricing from 600 - 1600 depending on model.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Denon or actives are the only options. Agree that actives should perform better so very much interested in recommendations for more active monitors.

If that's the case, I think you should go active. If not out of budget - Dynaudio Focus 110A

Focus 110a - very interesting. even has finish options. but requires source with vol control/pre-amp. this means I need to put a pre-amp between Sqbox and the Dynaudios (SBoox's vol control directly to power amp is not ideal).

With the active route, I was hoping to get rid of any other boxes ond feed the SqBox directly to speakers (assuming incorrectly they will have vol control)...

Are there any other active speakers that have vol control (with remote) like the AVIs?

 

[jerry klinger]

PMCs are very good but the best all-round small speaker I've heard is the Proac Tablette Signature - absolutely superb. Some of the AVI and AE models can be just too analytical for some systems (especially a £200 Denon!) You could try them with an Arcam or similar though.

 

[jerry klinger]

PMCs are very good but the best all-round small speaker I've heard is the Proac Tablette Signature - absolutely superb. Some of the AVI and AE models can be just too analytical for some systems (especially a £200 Denon!) You could try them with an Arcam or similar though.

 

[garyw77]

+1 for the PMC DB1i's... I have the Walnut finish which is gorgeous.

These are small.... and very special

I was VERY surprised at what bass these little beauties could produce and the detail just blew me away.

The soundstage that these produce, for their size, is amazing; and won me over from other small speakers.

Have a listen at least... i think you will be surprised

 

[shooter]

GamuT Phi 3.

I like the looks but being Gamut they will be very expensive, won't they? I would like to get into 'very good value' territory.

Top end of the budget, in and around 1.5k depending on finish.

The GamuT range is a quality product with years of in house driver and cabinet design, how do you define 'very good value'?

good value - as close to the lower end of the budget while still having excellent sound and functionality. Gamut will be rare and difficult to audition?

Not sure if the GamuT fall into that category and pairing with the Denon will need a demo.

Audio Reference in Guildford are the GamuT UK distributer.

 

[Craig M.]

Absolutely! So, to eliminate an amp, I need to go active. But if the most interesting active one (AVI) is lean I then will want a sub, so will be going back up on the box count. This makes me think PMC... Hmmmm...

because you are used to accurate bass, you might not think the adms are lean. they got a lot closer to my sia2-150 and scm19 than they had any right to, and in some areas i preferred them. as has already been mentioned, i can't imagine how your denon is going to get any of the passives performing anywhere near their best.

 

[shooter]

Are there any other active speakers that have vol control (with remote) like the AVIs?

The Dynaudio Air range have remotes but then your into the 2 - 3k range, similar to the Adam's you mentioned earlier. There could be others though.

 

[MattSPL]

Hi Almaatakz

I upgraded from PMC DB1i's to ATC scm19's.

The PMC's are very compact and lightweight, with good bass for their size, but they are a very small speaker, so have their limitations at the end of the day.

The tweeter in the new PMC 'i' range is a lot better than the older models, but it somewhat outshines the bass and mid of the DB1i, therefore drawing attention to itself a little.

Positioning of the DB1i may be a problem depending on your room and distance you have them from the wall/corners. They need some wall reinforcement to help the bass, but their transmission line exits at the rear, so uneaven bass can be a problem near corners etc.

I feel that the PMC DB1i's price on launch of £770 represented good value for money, but not anymore at £1050.

The ATC's impressed me instantly with their tight solid bass, stunning midrange clarity and perfect integration throughout the entire frequency range. No single part of the frequency range stood out above the other.

Bass, midrange and trebble of the ATC's all easily out performed the PMC's.

I realise that there is about £800 in the difference in price between the ATC scm19 and the PMC DB1i, but the ATC scm11 comes in just cheaper than the PMC and gives a very large slice of the scm19's performance in a more compact package.

With your current floor stander/sub combo, i think you will struggle to get the sound you desire from a small speaker. Ive been down that road myself.
Keep the sub and hide it somewhere, and get some decent small speakers. Or sell the sub and buy a smaller one that will fit under the bed or somewhere.

Cheers
Matt

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Focus 110a - very interesting. even has finish options. but requires source with vol control/pre-amp. this means I need to put a pre-amp between Sqbox and the Dynaudios (SBoox's vol control directly to power amp is not ideal).

hi

why is Sboxe's volume ctrl not right. if you connected SB to Focuses with RCA cables you'll have a very nice and compact hi-fi.

I was reading this thread with interest and what I found out, judging on your requirements, is that you're tied to ADM AVIs or Dynaudio Focus 110 Actives or some cheaper studio monitors (like KRK Rokit series) if you want to go active route. why? every studio monitor mentioned (Focals, Adams, Dynaudio Air and BM) sport only XLR type analog ins. which means if you're thinking of getting one of those you'll need to get yourself a pre with XLR outs. Shooter mentioned that Dynaudio Air has built in DAC. that's true but it connects with AES-EBU XLR tybe of connector, something that little SB Touch doesn't support...

so you can connect your SB Touch to AVIs through toslink, but you'll have to cope with poor bass extension. I mean I can't understand people who say that AVIs bass is accurate. manufacturer states that ADM9s freq response is +/- 2db 100Hz-20kHz with -6db point at 60HZ. how can you possibly get deep bass from that. IMO it's due to use of paper cone woofers which are not the most efficient in producing low frequencies (you need to use larger area diaphragms to get low freq with paper).

another option is already mentioned Dynaudio Focus 110A connected with an RCA cable. with those you'll not be wanting for more bass. I've got passive 110s in 2.0 configuration and a friend of mine was fooled into believing I had a subwoofer. anyway, bass extrension down to 40Hz is not world record (45Hz is anechoic) but, believe me, in most cases is enough. unless you listen to a lot of organ music

another option is other active speakers with RCA in. it'll mean budget end of pro market. but they will not touch Dynaudios in SQ department for sure.

P.S. someone mentioned Aktimatez before. it's a good option if you connect SB Touch with RCA. but the speakers are not active, they are passive with added power amp.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Absolutely! So, to eliminate an amp, I need to go active. But if the most interesting active one (AVI) is lean I then will want a sub, so will be going back up on the box count. This makes me think PMC... Hmmmm...

because you are used to accurate bass, you might not think the adms are lean. they got a lot closer to my sia2-150 and scm19 than they had any right to, and in some areas i preferred them. as has already been mentioned, i can't imagine how your denon is going to get any of the passives performing anywhere near their best.

So, in the passive route, using the Denon, all I need is a pair of inexpensive but good passive two-ways for 150-300 quid.

The active option based on, say, AVIs, will be 3 to 6 times more expensive (and more likely to needa sub?).

I want to try:

1) SB touch + AVI - is AVI only available direct online? i.e. no demos in dealers? (total cost 1200 minus sell sub, current speakers and Denon)

Denon into :

2) PMC (the two small models) (total cost 1000-1300 minus sell sub and current speakers)

3) Neat petite or other 'expensive' ones e.g. ProAc tablette (total cost 1000-1500 minus sell sub and current speakers)

4) much chaper speakers e.g. Monitor Audio Radius or Quad 11L (total cost 200-300 minus sell sub and current speakers)

I am struggling to identify other specific candidates for active monitors. I think I want ones with remote vol control and do not know any others apart from AVI that have it.

If I ebay sub for 150, old speakers for 100-150 and the denon for 100-150, this is abt 350 back. I can also ebay chordette Gem (300?) and one of my racks (100-200?). so that is up to abt 700-800 quid back...

 

[chebby]

For those recommending ATC SCM11s (and SCM19s etc) it is worth noting this from the first post...

ATC scm7 or 11 should be an obvious choice but I do not like their looks!

 

[chebby]

...SB touch + AVI - is AVI only available direct online? i.e. no demos in dealers?

http://www.avihifi.co.uk/contact.html

 

[Dave_]

1) SB touch + AVI - is AVI only available direct online? i.e. no demos in dealers? (total cost 1200 minus sell sub, current speakers and Denon)

There is a handful of dealers that stock AVI.

http://www.avihifi.co.uk/contact.html

 

[ID.]

I think my DB1i, although not that insensitive at 87dB, like to have a bit of power up them, which might be a problem with the Denon. As far as walls and space goes, I think they would work well in even a fairly small bedroom.

I'd be interested to hear what the TB2i sound like on the end of the Denon considering that they are 90dB.

Both give great imaging and soundstage and give a fantastic sense space around the performers, etc.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

For those recommending ATC SCM11s (and SCM19s etc) it is worth noting this from the first post...

ATC scm7 or 11 should be an obvious choice but I do not like their looks!

ATCs are still a possibility as I trust them for quality and sound.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

1) SB touch + AVI - is AVI only available direct online? i.e. no demos in dealers? (total cost 1200 minus sell sub, current speakers and Denon)

There is a handful of dealers that stock AVI.

http://www.avihifi.co.uk/contact.html

Thanks for the link. Bartletts seem to sell many of those, particularly active! Great!

 

[AlmaataKZ]

...SB touch + AVI - is AVI only available direct online? i.e. no demos in dealers?

http://www.avihifi.co.uk/contact.html

Thanks, Chebby!

 

[MattSPL]

For those recommending ATC SCM11s (and SCM19s etc) it is worth noting this from the first post...

ATC scm7 or 11 should be an obvious choice but I do not like their looks!

ATCs are still a possibility as I trust them for quality and sound.

ATC do a custom on/in wall version of the scm11. Might be worth a look???

 

[AlmaataKZ]

For those recommending ATC SCM11s (and SCM19s etc) it is worth noting this from the first post...

ATC scm7 or 11 should be an obvious choice but I do not like their looks!

ATCs are still a possibility as I trust them for quality and sound.

ATC do a custom on/in wall version of the scm11. Might be worth a look???

Hmmm... Interesting thought...

 

[the record spot]

1) SB touch + AVI - is AVI only available direct online? i.e. no demos in dealers? (total cost 1200 minus sell sub, current speakers and Denon)

Well, there are a few dealers out there (Fiveways Hi Fi and a couple of others), but mostly, it's word of mouth and a kind invite round to hear them in someone's house. All very helpful, but it's the "everything else" that goes with the brand currently that puts me off. That said, for many a year, the Neutron III was an object of desire, their Lab Series amp is probably the most powerful integrated in domestic audio (250wpc I think) and they make good/great products. But with your source? Money wasted IMO (no offence).

That said, some forums will happily recommend a bog standard supermarket DVD player and an optical out, so this would be proof of the pudding type stuff!

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Here is my experience of SB touch analog and digital out directly to actives and via Benchmark HDR.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/your-system/my-dream-system-oh-maybe-one-day?page=11#comment-1264528

 

[AlmaataKZ]

Are there any other active speakers that have vol control (with remote) like the AVIs?

The Dynaudio Air range have remotes but then your into the 2 - 3k range, similar to the Adam's you mentioned earlier. There could be others though.

checked those Dyns airs out. it looks like these are fully dsp-managed multichannel studio systems - a complete overkill in my situation (although very interesting. similar to event opals etc).