Shame AVI nobbled their Lab series of amps

[lindsayt]

Regarding distortion in crossovers:

I measured a typical 2 Way 2nd order LR crossover designed for a crossover frequency of 3.5kHz using a number of different inductors, using the drive units as loads at 10W the electrical harmonic distortion was typically 1% (-40db) for the iron cored inductor samples and 3% (-30dB)for the ferrite cored samples which was a suprise! Measurement frequencies were 1 octave either side of the crossover frequency.

By contrast the active filters used in the ADM9s have distortion typically -96dB at the frequencies used above, this means that the active filters in the ADM9s are very much more than 1000 better than the passive crossover.

The mid-band distortion of the ADM9 amplifiers is typically –96dB so even including the amplifier the distortion in the voltage received at the drive units will be better than 50dB lower than a perfect amplifier driving a passive crossover.

This is the biggest load of misleading bunkum I've read for a long time on the What Hi-fi forum.

Firstly, the actual inductors tested are not named. They could have been ridiculously underspecced inductors. Or something from an ultra budget boombox. No one reading this is any the wiser as to whether the inductors tested bear any actual resemblance to the ones used in their passive crossovers.

More importantly the 10 watt contunuous power rating is ridiculously high for a domestic hi-fi setting.

Even if you have low efficiency speakers, 10 watts will produce 95 dbs. That's stupidly LOUD for a continuous signal. If anyone's confident their system will handle it, get a calibrated sound meter and play a 1750 hz test tone at 95 dbs and see if you can bear to be in the same room.

If you have efficient speakers, 10 watts becomes even more ridiculous. Producing over 110 dbs (to put it into perspective; that's more than any AVI speakers can produce continuously).

The only thing that this test has demonstrated is that some inductors get saturated at power levels of 10 watts. Here's a nice little discussion of inductor current handling capacity: https://rencousa.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/APN-102%20Power%20Inductors%20and%20Peak%20Current%20Handling%20Capability.pdf

For sure there may well be some, or even many passive speakers where the inductors get saturated at the highest power levels. Without a series of properly conducted tests it's impossible to know if the inductors in anyone's passive crossover have been specced to handle the maximum power of the speakers or not.

If the test were repeated for power levels equivalent to 20 db to 85 db listening levels I'm confident they'd reveal inaudible amounts of distortion from the inductors in properly engineered passive speakers.

The following statement is absolutely meaningless "By contrast the active filters used in the ADM9s have distortion typically -96dB at the frequencies used above" because it does not state the power levels / equivalent listening volume that this figure was derived from. Nor does it give any indication of the actual testing methodology.

The distortion produced by the active crossovers in AVI speakers will depend to a very large degree on the listening volume.

...And at the end of the day, active or passive is the icing on the cake. It's the drivers and cabinet design that are the sponge and the filling of the cake. In the case of AVI speakers these are seriously flawed.

 

[plastic penguin]

Blimey. Is this poxy thread still going?

 

[lpv]

...And at the end of the day, active or passive is the icing on the cake. It's the drivers and cabinet design that are the sponge and the filling of the cake. In the case of AVI speakers these are seriously flawed.

can you elaborate?

 

[jamesrfisher]

Blimey. Is this poxy thread still going?

Well you started it......

 

[plastic penguin]

Blimey. Is this poxy thread still going?

Well you started it......

That's true, but asking a simple question. I hoped it wouldn't get derailed by the AVI heads preaching to their God.

 

[Al ears]

Blimey. Is this poxy thread still going?

Well you started it......

That's true, but asking a simple question. I hoped it wouldn't get derailed by the AVI heads preaching to their God.

Well you know what this forum is like..... ;-)

 

[plastic penguin]

Blimey. Is this poxy thread still going?

Well you started it......

That's true, but asking a simple question. I hoped it wouldn't get derailed by the AVI heads preaching to their God.

Well you know what this forum is like..... ;-)

Don't I just... (shakes head in dismay).

You just hope that people can demonstrate a modicum of decency and respect. There's enough current active threads to satisfy their need without derailing others.

 

[thewinelake.]

why you didn't ask in the AVI forum?!

 

[Al ears]

why you didn't ask in the AVI forum?!

Why would he bother, they're all fanboys. ;-)

 

[thewinelake.]

Well, the nature of the question was not such that fan boys would be a particular problem, and that if he was after an answer, Ash would be the one to give it (although I guess his answer was pretty predictable). I've not been here very long, but it's quite clear that mere mention of A** toxifies a thread!

 

[jcbrum]

What's wrong with being an AVI fan boy, anyway ?

JC

 

[plastic penguin]

why you didn't ask in the AVI forum?!

Because the Colonel was frequenting the forum at the time. It was an oppotune time to ask. And I don't own one of his products. Dig?

 

[Al ears]

What's wrong with being an AVI fan boy, anyway ?

JC

Nothing unless the active brigade resort to brainwashing or answering every post with the suggestion that active is the only way to go. It may very well be for some instances but in the majority of incidences a so-called passive set up is what the OP is enquiring about and is interested in.

 

[plastic penguin]

What's wrong with being an AVI fan boy, anyway ?

JC

Nothing unless the active brigade resort to brainwashing or answering ever post with the suggestion that active is the only way to go.

Agreed: This is the problem I've found: Their way is only way regardless of what people require... I don't object to active, it's their owners who constantly thrust it down others throats.

 

[davedotco]

What's wrong with being an AVI fan boy, anyway ?

JC

Nothing unless the active brigade resort to brainwashing or answering ever post with the suggestion that active is the only way to go.

Agreed: This is the problem I've found: Their way is only way regardless of what people require... I don't object to active, it's their owners who constantly thrust it down others throats.

I think that is unfair.

I often suggest that, for many people, a system built around a pair of late model ADM9/10 offer outstanding value for money, and I own neither.

If the 2 toslink and single analog inputs are sufficient, not the case for everyone, then I think you would be hard pressed to match that performance from 'traditional' components.

Similarly, if you are looking for a system to play a lot of modern music that requires a very 'solid' bass output, then some of the better studio monitors will comfortably outperform passive systems at comparable prices.

 

[thewinelake.]

I'm thinking that DM5 + something like a Yamaha WXC-50 would be a very nice combination - and better value than DM9/10

 

[plastic penguin]

What's wrong with being an AVI fan boy, anyway ?

JC

Nothing unless the active brigade resort to brainwashing or answering ever post with the suggestion that active is the only way to go.

Agreed: This is the problem I've found: Their way is only way regardless of what people require... I don't object to active, it's their owners who constantly thrust it down others throats.

I think that is unfair.

I often suggest that, for many people, a system built around a pair of late model ADM9/10 offer outstanding value for money, and I own neither.

If the 2 toslink and single analog inputs are sufficient, not the case for everyone, then I think you would be hard pressed to match that performance from 'traditional' components.

Similarly, if you are looking for a system to play a lot of modern music that requires a very 'solid' bass output, then some of the better studio monitors will comfortably outperform passive systems at comparable prices.

Here's me thinking this forum was called "What Hi-Fi?" and not "What Active?"

 

[Dave_]

Here's me thinking this forum was called "What Hi-Fi?" and not "What Active?"

So what constitutes as 'Hi-Fi' in your small minded little world?

And in case you missed it, this is a public forum...

 

[davedotco]

What's wrong with being an AVI fan boy, anyway ?

JC

Nothing unless the active brigade resort to brainwashing or answering ever post with the suggestion that active is the only way to go.

Agreed: This is the problem I've found: Their way is only way regardless of what people require... I don't object to active, it's their owners who constantly thrust it down others throats.

I think that is unfair.

I often suggest that, for many people, a system built around a pair of late model ADM9/10 offer outstanding value for money, and I own neither.

If the 2 toslink and single analog inputs are sufficient, not the case for everyone, then I think you would be hard pressed to match that performance from 'traditional' components.

Similarly, if you are looking for a system to play a lot of modern music that requires a very 'solid' bass output, then some of the better studio monitors will comfortably outperform passive systems at comparable prices.

Here's me thinking this forum was called "What Hi-Fi?" and not "What Active?"

Are you suggesting that the active speakers in question are not 'hi-fi'?

 

[plastic penguin]

What's wrong with being an AVI fan boy, anyway ?

JC

Nothing unless the active brigade resort to brainwashing or answering ever post with the suggestion that active is the only way to go.

Agreed: This is the problem I've found: Their way is only way regardless of what people require... I don't object to active, it's their owners who constantly thrust it down others throats.

I think that is unfair.

I often suggest that, for many people, a system built around a pair of late model ADM9/10 offer outstanding value for money, and I own neither.

If the 2 toslink and single analog inputs are sufficient, not the case for everyone, then I think you would be hard pressed to match that performance from 'traditional' components.

Similarly, if you are looking for a system to play a lot of modern music that requires a very 'solid' bass output, then some of the better studio monitors will comfortably outperform passive systems at comparable prices.

Here's me thinking this forum was called "What Hi-Fi?" and not "What Active?"

Are you suggesting that the active speakers in question are not 'hi-fi'?

No. AVI are as hi-fi as anything, but hi-fi covers a whole multitude of sins (plethora of integtrated, all-in-ones, actives, passive speakers...).

The way some AVI owners go on there's nothing else that's worthy of the hi-fi mantle. Could give you a number of examples but I don't see the need.

I started this thread asking Ashley why he/they stopped production of the Lab Series. It has turned imnto a free-for-all, including those who are licking the Colonel's backside.

 

[lpv]

you seems to be licking leema a lot lately.. do you want me to quote your post as a little evidence to support my claim?

 

[jcbrum]

Quote PP "I started this thread asking Ashley why he/they stopped production of the Lab Series. "

And he told you. It was because by 2006 sales of hifi legacy separates were dying a death, and passive speakers with it.

The last 10 years AVI ADM active speaker systems have outsold Lab series separates by more than 100 to 1.

AVI ADM active speakers, with dac and pre-amp and remote control built in, cost a third of the price of legacy separates and sound better too. Lifestyles have changed, living room styles have changed, and most people just don't want the clutter of stacks of legacy boxes with all the interconnects.

They have modern furnishings and use wifi, tablets, phones, and smart tv's as streaming sources.

That's why - because of demand from users.

JC

 

[plastic penguin]

Quote PP "I started this thread asking Ashley why he/they stopped production of the Lab Series. "

And he told you. It was because by 2006 sales of hifi legacy separates were dying a death, and passive speakers with it.

The last 10 years AVI ADM active speaker systems have outsold Lab series separates by more than 100 to 1.

AVI ADM active speakers, with dac and pre-amp and remote control built in, cost a third of the price of legacy separates and sound better too. Lifestyles have changed, living room styles have changed, and most people just don't want the clutter of stacks of legacy boxes with all the interconnects.

They have modern furnishings and use wifi, tablets, phones, and smart tv's as streaming sources.

That's why - because of demand from users.

JC

Indeed. I have read the reply. No issues with that at all. But it had turned from a simple question into a full-blown "AVIs are great because...".Personally: I.DON'T.GIVE.A.****.

Go and massage your egoes on other 'active' threads.

 

[plastic penguin]

you seems to be licking leema a lot lately.. do you want me to quote your post as a little evidence to support my claim?

Okay. Prove I've been banging on about my Leema.

 

[lpv]

I thought you won't be interested so I'm not ready to support my claim.. wouldn't change anything I guess? besides, it's just a little evidence cause it's only 1 licker ( you) and not like 10s of Avi lickers..