Separate Crystalline Clock Boxes, do the Noughts and Ones add up?

[Jasonovich]

This is kind of an offshoot to the recent CD thread, I had a little flutter with CD player transport debate and the merits of it and I want to extend this further, hopefully this will lead to constructive and interesting outcome (🙂?).

I quite like watching Old Guy Hifi Youtube vids, he resonates humility and doesn't offend the senses.
He unequivocally endorsed the LAIV Harmony DAC and mini me LAIV cheap(ish) DAC. He also claimed, the use of standalone clock has taken the sound to another level.
I'm intrigued by this, I can understand the positive sonic attributes using a standalone transport and I appreciate some may discredit this but special digital clocks is this for real, what are your thoughts?

If I wrap my head around this, logically and I'm being the Devil's Advocate, this all about measurements and some of you wearing the No Cable Bull Zit t-shirt, are likely to agree all measurements are king, this is scientific surely, better precision of the digital clock, is likely to improve the pitch and output, surely?

It'll be nice to hear from anyone who has actually wired their DAC to a standalone clock and has heard the improvements or the absence of it.

View: https://youtu.be/ZGgzrWBi-tc?si=3EDWOro6PZfwB3ID

 

[skinnypuppy71]

There is a way to try this out yourself Jason.....the raspberry pi route with some of IanCanada pcb's....he has a couple of reclocker's that can be used with his dual mono dac and sells upgradable clocks, although they aren't exactly cheap..I built a version myself just as a wee project.and it does sound very good indeed.

 

[skinnypuppy71]

View: https://youtu.be/EPV1ON23L0Y?si=AjShJMZ6-6BnIDxn

 

[Shrek]

I need a new watch battery 😁

 

[good_enough]

The little I can gather on the interweb may be summarised as saying that the external clock better be amazingly good as siting it at the end of a cable intrinsically injects more jitter than one that's on board.

Since I'm happy with my CD player I think I'll be sitting this one out.

 

[Jasonovich]

The little I can gather on the interweb may be summarised as saying that the external clock better be amazingly good as siting it at the end of a cable intrinsically injects more jitter than one that's on board.

Since I'm happy with my CD player I think I'll be sitting this one out.

It's a really good point you make, I suspect it will be on a very short cable run.

 

[Jasonovich]

I need a new watch battery 😁

I can't have a watch, they die on me, something to do with natural electricity.

 

[Vincent Kars]

better precision of the digital clock, is likely to improve the pitch and output, surely?

Pitch? No.
Red Book ( CD audio standard) requires the clocks frequency be within +/-100ppm (parts per million).
A deviation of 100 ppm means that a 440Hz tone deviates +/- 0.044Hz.
This is way below the threshold of our hearing even if you have absolute pitch.

A better clock means lower jitter so less skirting and less side bands.
An oldy: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/does-your-studio-need-digital-master-clock

More recent: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/auralic-leo-gx-dac-clock-review.11001/

In general studio master clocks using cesium or rubidium are highly accurate. After hundred years, they deviate 1 second. For audio the cycle to cycle time is more important. 1 ps of intrinsic jitter is a good value for studio clocks. DAC's with a femto clock run below 100 femto so well below 0.1 ps.
Using a external clock can result in a higher jitter but you might wonder if the difference between 1 ps and 0.1 ps is audible.
Modern well designed DACs do have a extremely low noise floor, just a $500 example: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/smsl-m500-mkii-review-dac-hp-amp.29468/
Not a trace of jitter.

If you do hear the difference when using an external clock it is because
- it is a extremely lousy DAC
- but more likely you are listening with your eyes as this is by far the best method to hear differences that are not there.

 

[Jasonovich]

Pitch? No.
Red Book ( CD audio standard) requires the clocks frequency be within +/-100ppm (parts per million).
A deviation of 100 ppm means that a 440Hz tone deviates +/- 0.044Hz.
This is way below the threshold of our hearing even if you have absolute pitch.

A better clock means lower jitter so less skirting and less side bands.
An oldy: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/does-your-studio-need-digital-master-clock

More recent: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/auralic-leo-gx-dac-clock-review.11001/

In general studio master clocks using cesium or rubidium are highly accurate. After hundred years, they deviate 1 second. For audio the cycle to cycle time is more important. 1 ps of intrinsic jitter is a good value for studio clocks. DAC's with a femto clock run below 100 femto so well below 0.1 ps.
Using a external clock can result in a higher jitter but you might wonder if the difference between 1 ps and 0.1 ps is audible.
Modern well designed DACs do have a extremely low noise floor, just a $500 example: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/smsl-m500-mkii-review-dac-hp-amp.29468/
Not a trace of jitter.

If you do hear the difference when using an external clock it is because
- it is a extremely lousy DAC
- but more likely you are listening with your eyes as this is by far the best method to hear differences that are not there.

I'm trying to understand this, thank you for fleshing this out.