Sealed box speakers

[matthewpiano]

Listening to my old KEF C30s from the 1980s, as a stop-gap while I decide what I'm going to end up with for my hi-fi, I'm coming to realise that I really like the sound of a sealed box design. They seem to be more natural sounding than ported speakers with better integration across the frequency range. They also seem to image with greater stability.

Are there any new sealed designs on the market now at reasonable prices that I could consider? Is anyone making sealed box speakers at present or is everything ported?

 

[Craig M.]

maybe some atc

would some 2nd hand scm11's be in budget? might be the last speakers you ever want.

 

[Anonymous]

From what I can see, sealed box designs don't cater for the wider audience due to lower sensitivity and lower quantities of bass compared to ported designs. Therefore they tend to be a bit rare and possibly expensive. They need more current up them compared to unsealed cabinets!

What's out there? Spendor SA1, ATC SCM7, SCM11, that's all I can think of!

 

[chebby]

igglebert:What's out there? Spendor SA1, ATC SCM7, SCM11, that's all I can think of!

Also.... Stirling Broadcast BBC LS3/5A V2, Spendor S3/5R, Harbeth P3ESR, Harbeth Monitor 20, Naim N-Sats,

 

[plastic penguin]

Going back 30 years, sealed speakers were all the rage. The best speakers, thought by in some circles, were air tight ones. How things have changed, due, in the main, to cater for differing sonic characters and individual tastes.

Today, as on this forum, some prefer sealed boxes, while others don't. What I'm trying to say, in roundabout sort of way, is to track down some examples and see how they stack up......

However, I am concerned because Matthew is adding to his 'possible' list where really he should be reducing it. The more he adds and the more he hears the more confusing it gets - and I'm speaking from personal experience

 

[matthewpiano]

PP I can completely understand your concern. The widening 'possible' list concerns me as well but I think part of this process is working out exactly what it is that I like and which technologies are most likely to give it - perhaps something I haven't really sorted out before.

I'm not really about copious amounts of bass, that is for sure. My old KEFs are quite large with big bass drivers (they are the sort of 'stand mounters' that were designed for 25-30cm high open frame stands) but rather than sounding particularly bassy they just sound natural and I think that is down to the fact that the bass isn't being artificially tuned by a port. Of course, I might be wrong but...

 

[plastic penguin]

matthewpiano:PP I can completely understand your concern. The widening 'possible' list concerns me as well but I think part of this process is working out exactly what it is that I like and which technologies are most likely to give it - perhaps something I haven't really sorted out before. I'm not really about copious amounts of bass, that is for sure. My old KEFs are quite large with big bass drivers (they are the sort of 'stand mounters' that were designed for 25-30cm high open frame stands) but rather than sounding particularly bassy they just sound natural and I think that is down to the fact that the bass isn't being artificially tuned by a port. Of course, I might be wrong but...

Matthew, I feel a little disjointed by you using the word 'technologies.' I have nothing against techie stuff, like computers, sometimes you can become too reliant on technical info, rather than letting your ears decide. I just fear digging deeper will open up additional cans of worms.....

The best advice I can give you is: like writing a book or me narrating a script. Once I've completed the first draft I won't look at it for at least four weeks. In some ways, you can draw parallels to hi-fi, especially in your situation.

Good luck, matey, PP

 

[Anonymous]

Those KEFs look very interesting. 90dB sensitivity, 70Hz bass at -3dB, sealed design, 50cm tall, 8ohms nominal; rare characteristics by today's standards. I bet they do have good bass; easy to drive with a modest amp, volumous cabinet to support a good bass volume whilst infinite baffle to maintain accuracy. Maybe you should hang on to these and find some tubes to drive them! In fact, they strike me as ideal candidates for a Sugden amp!

 

[matthewpiano]

igglebert:Those KEFs look very interesting. 90dB sensitivity, 70Hz bass at -3dB, sealed design, 50cm tall, 8ohms nominal; rare characteristics by today's standards. I bet they do have good bass; easy to drive with a modest amp, volumous cabinet to support a good bass volume whilst infinite baffle to maintain accuracy. Maybe you should hang on to these and find some tubes to drive them! In fact, they strike me as ideal candidates for a Sugden amp!

They are rather good actually. I used to have a pair of Coda IIIs, which were the predecessor of the C30 and I used them for ages in my study/spare room to great effect. That is what made me get the C30s earlier this year. They are certainly easy to drive - the little Sansui I'm using is only 15wpc!!

Things are starting to take shape a bit more in my mind. The entry-level CA stuff is ruled out. I haven't heard it (apart from the 340C that I've had for ages and find good) but having had 540A, 640A, and 740A and failing to find satisfaction with any of them I think its time to accept that the CA amplifier sound isn't for me.

I'm beginning to suspect that the sound I like is slightly old fashioned and that only a few brands potentially cater for it. My auditioning later in the week (of the Rotel and Marantz stuff) will help to clarify this one way or the other. It might then be time to start looking at alternatives such as the Icon Audio Stereo 25, and used Sugdens.

 

[plarge]

I used to have a pair of Linn Kans - sealed box and wonderful sound!! Miss them! I know Linn's older designs were infinite baffle (Keilidhs etc) and can be picked up now relatively cheap. I also used to like Royd speakers for the same reason...

 

[Anonymous]

Matthew, get a system like mine ... old, cheap and good (IMHO) ...even though the amp is 30 yrs old, it still remains as one of the best value for money amps around ... (if you get one for under £300 ... some guys are trying to sell them now for £650-£1100)

keep your new system and sell the pioneer A400 for £130+ and get an sa-9800 for an extra £150 ... see how it works, then see what needs replacing (speakers or cdp) and take your time ...

if you dont like the pioneer go for one of the old kenwoods, sansui or yamahas but gor for the larger more powerfull amps (100 watts plus) ... Luxman is really good but hard to find for cheap nowadays

I wont sell the amp of speakers, they match really well ... cdp I will upgrade, but need to save up first and research ... cabling will be changed aswell (after reading the latest review on SHB)

 

[matthewpiano]

plarge:I used to have a pair of Linn Kans - sealed box and wonderful sound!! Miss them! I know Linn's older designs were infinite baffle (Keilidhs etc) and can be picked up now relatively cheap. I also used to like Royd speakers for the same reason...

Thanks for the suggestion. I will have a look.

 

[Anonymous]

dim_span:cabling will be changed aswell (after reading the latest review on SHB)
...you like 'em or you don't! Ignore the review (with respect WHF).

 

[a91gti]

I second the motion to keep the Kefs, a good speaker is a good speaker, if you`ve a pair that sound good hang on to them.

 

[Frank Harvey]

matthewpiano:Listening to my old KEF C30s from the 1980s, as a stop-gap while I decide what I'm going to end up with for my hi-fi, I'm coming to realise that I really like the sound of a sealed box design. They seem to be more natural sounding than ported speakers with better integration across the frequency range. They also seem to image with greater stability. Are there any new sealed designs on the market now at reasonable prices that I could consider? Is anyone making sealed box speakers at present or is everything ported?Well I think most of us know the benefits of the ATC's by now.....

It is quite rare to find hi-fi speakers now using this design, for reasons mentioned earlier. A port can work well on a speaker - it just needs to be a good design and have enough money thrown at it to do it properly, but it is quite a bit of money. I've always been a fan of sealed speakers, and I've owned quite a few too - Heybrook HB100's, Linn Index's, Musical Fidelity Reference 2's, Naim SBL and IBL, Rega Ela, Kef Reference 101/2's - all great sounding speakers thathave never failed to impress me. By far my favourite ones were the Jim Rogers JR149's, which were based on the LS3/5a, but had the added benefit of a cylindrical cabinet made of aluminium - no boom whatsoever, they just sounded natural.

Miller & Kreisel have used sealed cabinets for their home cinema satellite speakers for decades, partly because they produce the best results, and also because they're a requirement of THX. Using sealed cabinets with an even in room response, Lucasfilm could master films using these sealed sub/sat systems, and when these soundtracks were played back in the home on similarly designed systems, the end result would be far closer than if big floorstanders or ported speakers were used. It was all to introduce 'predictable' results when integrated into the home. The same goes for their subwoofers. In fact, over the past five years or so, more and more manufacturers have gone back to producing sealed subwoofers. Maybe ATC are on the verge of starting a future trend for the hi-fi loudspeaker........

 

[chebby]

chebby:
igglebert:What's out there? Spendor SA1, ATC SCM7, SCM11, that's all I can think of!

Also.... Stirling Broadcast BBC LS3/5A V2, Spendor S3/5R, Harbeth P3ESR, Harbeth Monitor 20, Naim N-Sats,

I think these were sealed box too....

I am researching a rumour that manufacture was outsourced to Linn.

 

[matthewpiano]

Igglebert, what do you think about Quad pre/powers to drive the KEFs? Something of the 34/306 variety? Only a thought, and I'd have to listen to some, but do you think its got potential?

 

[Anonymous]

Matthew, a while back, I was interested in an older quad system ... asked a few questions on some forums and cannot remember the exact info I received, but if memory serves me right, the best combo was the 33/405 (I stand to be corrected?) ...

also remember something about quad 405 + Kef 104/2 speakers being an excellent combo

If you contact Quad, they will give you all the info, and you can take your speakers and cdp there and they will hook it up so you can listen ... I believe they are very eager to help/advise and are very friendly

never persued it at that stage, but still keen to get an old quad system for my leak sandwich speakers at a later stage

 

[drummerman]

matthewpiano:Igglebert, what do you think about Quad pre/powers to drive the KEFs? Something of the 34/306 variety? Only a thought, and I'd have to listen to some, but do you think its got potential?

Blimey! You are blowing hot and cold, changing your system more often than ... . I nearly replied to a recent thread where you were considering trying AVI's actives. I think I can safely say ... don't bother. If you don't like the relative neutral CA stuff you'd hate AVI, probably.

Isn't perhaps the problem that you change so often (and mostly for second hand stuff) that you a/ never really get to know and live with a system and b/ have as much chance to find one you like as winning the lottery??

Why not take a break, sign off here for a few months, don't buy mags and add to your music collection? Then perhaps go to a good dealer and listen to some more expensive systems, whatever they may be, and find one you truly like. Then you have something to aim for and know what you want ... perhaps

Just an idea MP, no offense.

regards

 

[plastic penguin]

drummerman:

matthewpiano:Igglebert, what do you think about Quad pre/powers to drive the KEFs? Something of the 34/306 variety? Only a thought, and I'd have to listen to some, but do you think its got potential?

Blimey! You are blowing hot and cold, changing your system more often than ... . I nearly replied to a recent thread where you were considering trying AVI's actives. I think I can safely say ... don't bother. If you don't like the relative neutral CA stuff you'd hate AVI, probably.

Isn't perhaps the problem that you change so often (and mostly for second hand stuff) that you a/ never really get to know and live with a system and b/ have as much chance to find one you like as winning the lottery??

Why not take a break, sign off here for a few months, don't buy mags and add to your music collection? Then perhaps go to a good dealer and listen to some more expensive systems, whatever they may be, and find one you truly like. Then you have something to aim for and know what you want ... perhaps

Just an idea MP, no offense.

regards

DM, I've mentioned this a couple of times recently. Sometimes you can be too close to the action for your own good. It'll be worthwhile for Matthew to take a step back and just enjoy the music for a week or so, rather than trying to analyse it......

 

[Anonymous]

problem with matthew and many others (including myself), is that we audition very good systems and compare it to used systems that we can afford/buy

I stopped doing that a long time ago, and now just take 1 step at a time and enjoy what I have, slowly upgrading step by step ... researching thoroughly before I buy, and enjoying the music ...

sad thing is that I never sell anything (wife says I am like a squirrel) ... I have 3 systems (all old) ... upgrade the main system, use that item for the one of the other 2 systems and then place the one I don't use in the loft

am happy with what I have so far (however, next component upgrade will be a better cdp) ...

 

[Anonymous]

Kans are evil! They take over your mind, like Gollum's ring, and make you keep upgrading your source and amplifier until their unwholesome desires are satisfied.

Also, like sharks, they inhabit an evolutionary dead end. Nothing in the ocean can out-shark a shark, so even though your shark can't out-whale a whale there might be no such thing as an unequivocal upgrade.

And when you sell them you'll feel you've betrayed them. I suspect my ported Katans are better than the Kans I used to own - they certainly do some things better - but I really don't want to find out for sure. Sometimes it's better not to know...

 

[Anonymous]

dim_span:
problem with matthew and many others (including myself), is that we audition very good systems and compare it to used systems that we can afford/buy

I stopped doing that a long time ago

...I try to avoid auditioning kit much better than mine as it's a terrible pill to swallow and will just annoy you!

 

[drummerman]

igglebert:dim_span:
problem with matthew and many others (including myself), is that we audition very good systems and compare it to used systems that we can afford/buy

I stopped doing that a long time ago

...I try to avoid auditioning kit much better than mine as it's a terrible pill to swallow and will just annoy you!

How did you reach the conclusion that the Spendors are the speakers you'd like?

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:Igglebert, what do you think about Quad pre/powers to drive the KEFs? Something of the 34/306 variety? Only a thought, and I'd have to listen to some, but do you think its got potential?
I've only ever dealt with 405s and occasionally use my mum's 34/405 combo with some ancient transmission line SMCs using KEF drivers; great fun but they are huge! (think PMC EB1) I'm not sure whether to recommend a Quad combo to you or not. If used with your KEFs then you might be OK but I think a factory spec 405 or similar will sound hard on the 11Ls as the tweeter is a bit too revealing. They make great upgrade projects and you can get the Netaudio mods done easily at any point.

I would feel considerably more comfortable recommending the Quad 77 integrated. I've only ever heard exceptional comments about it and you'd recoup what you pay for it without too much effort. The 306 might be good too but I think the 77 is an evolution of the design.