Sceptical about Atmos

[FunkyMonkey]

I have been watching the AV receiver market for news of Atmos and related tech.

However, I remain unconvinced.

I have a 7.1 system. I recently watched Interstellar. On Sky, not even on Blu Ray. And the sound blew me away.

Is it really worth spending thousands more upgrading to Atmos?

If starting from scratch, I would pay the difference, but cannot justify it now.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Many variables.

Systems set up and placement of existing speakers will usually be enough to create a more than believable sound field. As an example, I use a 5.1 system, with the rear speakers above head height placed either side of the seating position. This allows what sounds to the ear like overhead effects. There have been plenty of films that have demonstrated that I don't need Atmos in my room, producing effects right above my head, and convincing panning of effects round the back of me and above my head. That's not to say some people wouldn't still opt for Atmos though - we all have our priorities. Mine is sound quality, so I'd rather spend the available budget on fewer, better quality speakers. I've tried 7.1, but where I had to place them, it didn't work well enough (they were too high compared to the other speakers), so reverted back to 5.1.

If people are starting from scratch and buying once, by all means go Atmos if that is what you're looking for, but better sound quality can be had from less speakers, with less speakers generally being the requirement for most living rooms nowadays anyway. Atmos can always be added later on if required, but I think most people will be more than happy with a good quality 5.1 setup in the average room.

Let's not forget that Atmos or DTS:X is the same sound quality as DTS Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD, it isn't better. It just has more channels to aid effects placement and to create more atmosphere. Better quality can be gained by upgrading speakers, not by adding speakers.

The thing for me at the moment regarding Atmos is software. There's very little software, and what there is isn't generally the sort of films I watch. I like a good blockbuster just as much as anyone, but the films I revisit (regularly) tend to be more story based or stylish rather than crash bang wallop. I own one DTS:X film - Ex_Machina.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Thanks David. Accept all of that.
I will put Atmos out of my head. In a few years I will do a full-scale upgrade to 4K and Atmos. All the wiring for 4 speakers in ceiling is in place.

 

[bigboss]

It really depends. I've watched Gravity in non-Atmos as well as Atmos. I found Atmos added a lot more. Gravity is easily amongst the best Atmos discs out there (Diamond Luxe edition). Get a demo of that disc if you remain unconvinced about Atmos.

 

[ellisdj]

the standard gravity is one of the best discs out there - sonically its incredible with the quality of the samples used throughout.

 

[bigboss]

the standard gravity is one of the best discs out there - sonically its incredible with the quality of the samples used throughout.?

 

Exactly. Now compare that with the Atmos disc in a properly set up Atmos system.

 

[bigboss]

One review says this:

"The 'Gravity: Diamond Luxe Edition' rights the aural wrongs of the original 5.1 Blu-ray release. Yes, the original 5.1 DTS-HD MA surround mix was pretty damned good, but in back-to-back comparisons, it cannot compete with the new Dolby Atmos mix that wonderfully replicates the film's original theatrical sound experience. To say it another way, this Blu-ray offers the definitive way to experience 'Gravity' in surround sound."

http://m.bluray.highdefdigest.com/15248/gravitydiamondluxeedition.html

Another review says this:

If there were a rating above 4 stars on this site, this disc would get it for its soundtrack. Played back on a properly equipped Dolby Atmos system, the sound is nothing short of spectacular. In scenes where there are layers upon layers of sound objects on top of the powerful score, Dolby Atmos helps to keep the mix sounding both coherent and immersive.

If you need convincing, sit back and watch the opening scene for proof. Deep bass and effects build to a crescendo as on-screen text describes the inhospitability of space. The sound peaks at intense levels and abruptly ends, followed by a deep enveloping silence. Out of this audio void slowly come the sounds of radio communications among astronauts and mission control personnel. Only in Dolby Atmos can you pick out the individual voices as they span the entire 3D space, side to side, front to back, top to bottom.

Comparing to my memory of the film in theaters (I saw it once in IMAX, twice in Dolby Atmos in theaters), I think the home mix on this Blu-ray is an excellent representation of the theatrical audio. Switching over to the standard 5.1 "Silent Space" track, these same conversations sound jumbled. I've never thought of standard 5.1 surround sound as "flat" or "congested" before, but it feels that way, compared to the wide open height-enabled Dolby Atmos mix.

Dolby Atmos continues to be used to excellent effect throughout the film, including that opening scene, the initial bombardment of the space shuttle with schrapnel (at about 11:00), the destruction of the International Space Station (52:39), and the final scene with buzzing insects and sweeping music (1:22:00). The picture may not be in 3D, but the sound certainly is.

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Gravity-Diamond-Luxe-Edition-Blu-ray-Review.shtml

And check this review in full, which also talks about their impression of Atmos in general:

https://www.avforums.com/article/gravity-a-dolby-atmos-comparison.11767

 

[bigboss]

One review says this:

"The 'Gravity: Diamond Luxe Edition' rights the aural wrongs of the original 5.1 Blu-ray release. Yes, the original 5.1 DTS-HD MA surround mix was pretty damned good, but in back-to-back comparisons, it cannot compete with the new Dolby Atmos mix that wonderfully replicates the film's original theatrical sound experience. To say it another way, this Blu-ray offers the definitive way to experience 'Gravity' in surround sound."

http://m.bluray.highdefdigest.com/15248/gravitydiamondluxeedition.html

Another review says this:

If there were a rating above 4 stars on this site, this disc would get it for its soundtrack. Played back on a properly equipped Dolby Atmos system, the sound is nothing short of spectacular. In scenes where there are layers upon layers of sound objects on top of the powerful score, Dolby Atmos helps to keep the mix sounding both coherent and immersive.

If you need convincing, sit back and watch the opening scene for proof. Deep bass and effects build to a crescendo as on-screen text describes the inhospitability of space. The sound peaks at intense levels and abruptly ends, followed by a deep enveloping silence. Out of this audio void slowly come the sounds of radio communications among astronauts and mission control personnel. Only in Dolby Atmos can you pick out the individual voices as they span the entire 3D space, side to side, front to back, top to bottom.

Comparing to my memory of the film in theaters (I saw it once in IMAX, twice in Dolby Atmos in theaters), I think the home mix on this Blu-ray is an excellent representation of the theatrical audio. Switching over to the standard 5.1 "Silent Space" track, these same conversations sound jumbled. I've never thought of standard 5.1 surround sound as "flat" or "congested" before, but it feels that way, compared to the wide open height-enabled Dolby Atmos mix.

Dolby Atmos continues to be used to excellent effect throughout the film, including that opening scene, the initial bombardment of the space shuttle with schrapnel (at about 11:00), the destruction of the International Space Station (52:39), and the final scene with buzzing insects and sweeping music (1:22:00). The picture may not be in 3D, but the sound certainly is.

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Gravity-Diamond-Luxe-Edition-Blu-ray-R...

And check this review in full, which also talks about their impression of Atmos in general:

https://www.avforums.com/article/gravity-a-dolby-atmos-comparison.11767

Links now active.

5.1 and 7.1 systems are brilliant and people won't find sound lacking, unless they've heard a proper Atmos system. A badly laid out Atmos will not add much to experience, mind you. So it's important to do homework well before setting it up.

 

[ellisdj]

Sound is spectacular on the standard disc on a very good 5.2 system mate, I can promise you that.

We are talking seriously realsitic sounding - or as you would assume it to sound at whatever stage in the film, thats the magic to me of the sound work. Especially the inside the suit bass sounds - they are incredible samples, there is boomb and scrapes and all sorts stunning stuff. Real thought gone in.

Totally gripping as well

I dont doubt addind extra sound from above adds extra presence, maybe it makes the film seem even more 3D - for but actual sound quality there is nothing wrong with the original disc

 

[bigboss]

Sound is spectacular on the standard disc on a very good 5.2 system mate, I can promise you that.

We are talking seriously realsitic sounding - or as you would assume it to sound at whatever stage in the film, thats the magic to me of the sound work.  Especially the inside the suit bass sounds - they are incredible samples, there is boomb and scrapes and all sorts stunning stuff.  Real thought gone in.

Totally gripping as well

I dont doubt addind extra sound from above adds extra presence, maybe it makes the film seem even more 3D - for but actual sound quality there is nothing wrong with the original disc

I have both the discs ellisdj, and I have compared both. As I said before, you won't know what you're missing until you've heard it.

 

[ellisdj]

You have also never been here so don't know what you might be missing either.

I am not saying the atmos version is not better for the extra channel info, i can already see where the benefit can be had.
I am saying the quality of the original is still truly excellent and on a good system sounds stunningly realistic as you would imagine it to be obviously.

I think the film won sound awards - that wasn't for the atmos version I don't think

 

[bigboss]

You have also never been here so don't know what you might be missing either.

I am not saying the atmos version is not better for the extra channel info, i can already see where the benefit can be had.
I am saying the quality of the original is still truly excellent and on a good system sounds stunningly realistic as you would imagine it to be obviously.

I think the film won sound awards - that wasn't for the atmos version I don't think

What do you mean? I had the original 5.1 version and I have the Atmos version as well. I watched the film with 5.1 sound thrice before buying the Atmos version. I've watched Atmos version twice so far, and 5.1 version again for comparison. As one of the reviewers pointed out, some dialogues which sound jumbled in 5.1 open up beautifully in Atmos.

The original theatrical mix is Atmos which won awards, not 5.1.

 

[ellisdj]

Your right there, fairr cop - its actually mixed in about 5 different versions, including a datasat version - won awards for it all by the sounds of it. Hard to find exact info. I did find first time atmos mix won sound award, so it might be that version. I dont remember there being any atmos cinemas when that was out?

Maybe that is the disc to demonstrate atmos over the dolby demo disc with the rain.

Either way still sounds really good on a good 5.2.

 

[ellisdj]

The only semi problem with the disc is you really need to sit and watch it big chunks of it - films that are not crash bang wallop which you always within a couple of minutes of the start of a chapter hit a demo worthy scene, chances are from several chapters.

Most of the gravity good bits start off slow and build up which is absolute class and some of the best effects are in the less showy bits as well, sutbleties

 

[Frank Harvey]

I haven't heard Gravity in Atmos yet myself, but it is one of those very few discs to get next gen surround format treatment that genuinely benefits from it, I would guess in the same way that it also greatly benefits from 3D. It is these types of movies with a more atmospheric soundtrack I would like to hear rather than all out action movies like Turtles, which tend to fill the room very easily anyway if playing them loud, and the barrage of audio in these types of movies usually detracts from what's going on - but sometimes that's the point as they're trying to disguise a wafer thin story line.

 

[rocketrazor]

You have also never been here so don't know what you might be missing either.

I am not saying the atmos version is not better for the extra channel info, i can already see where the benefit can be had. I am saying the quality of the original is still truly excellent and on a good system sounds stunningly realistic as you would imagine it to be obviously.

I think the film won sound awards - that wasn't for the atmos version I don't think

What do you mean? I had the original 5.1 version and I have the Atmos version as well. I watched the film with 5.1 sound thrice before buying the Atmos version. I've watched Atmos version twice so far, and 5.1 version again for comparison. As one of the reviewers pointed out, some dialogues which sound jumbled in 5.1 open up beautifully in Atmos.

The original theatrical mix is Atmos which won awards, not 5.1.

You watched Gravity 5 times !?!?!?!?

 

[ellisdj]

6 times according to that.

I have seen it 3 times

 

[FunkyMonkey]

It just seems a big outlay. I would be interested in how it would sound when 5.1 soundtracks were matrixed as 99% of material I watch or listen to will be of 5.1 format. If not stereo.

 

[ellisdj]

I missed this before there is no jumbled dialogue I can recall on the standard disc.

The only dialogue that's difficult to understand is the Asian I think astronaut who cops it right at the start.

Clooney and bullocks dialogue from there is spot on.

Even the dialogue from the scene where she talks to the guy on the radio is clear and crisp as you like.
The sound sutlbelty of that scene is awesome

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Atmos and the new DTS will be night and day in all departments. Can't wait to upgrade with 4k & DTS once the dust has settled.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Atmos and the new DTS will be night and day in all departments. Can't wait to upgrade with 4k & DTS once the dust has settled.

But not quality, obviously.

If everything was night and day for me, I'd go for it (maybe the new Yamaha processor). But then I wouldn't have the quality I have now with the Classe Sigma SSP. I'm currently watching Aliens in 3.0 by the way...

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Atmos and the new DTS will be night and day in all departments. Can't wait to upgrade with 4k & DTS once the dust has settled.

I'm a bit slow. I don't know if you mean that Atmos and DTS:X will be much better than anything that was previously available?

Oh, about Atmos and the new Atmos version of the Gravity Blu-ray - I have the 3D visual, flat 5.1 audio version, which I listen to in either my parlour system (65" plasma and 12.1 Audyssey sound system with front wides, front heights and surround backs, and two centre speakers - more on the two centre speakers in a new thread next week) or in the kitchen (60" plasma, 8.1 system with Yamaha receiver and front presence speakers, single surround back). It looks, and sounds, very good on both systems. However, I am entirely comfortable with the thought that that the proper Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 soundmix of the film, such as bigboss has, would sound better still.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

2 centres? Intruiging. Always thought the weakness in 5.1 etc was in the centre.

 

[bigboss]

6 times according to that.

I have seen it 3 times

7 times actually. 1st time on IMAX.

 

[bigboss]

Your right there, fairr cop - its actually mixed in about 5 different versions, including a datasat version - won awards for it all by the sounds of it.  Hard to find exact info.  I did find first time atmos mix won sound award, so it might be that version.  I dont remember there being any atmos cinemas when that was out??

The first film to be released in Atmos format in cinemas was Disney's Brave in 2012. Gravity was released in 2013.