Samsung UE55C9000 review - Clare, Andy, Simon

[bigboss]

The reason for me to post this thread was because I was intrigued about this Samsung model. I didn't want to set up this debate about the quality of WHF reviews.

I would have expected this TV to have been compared with the reference Kuro. Yes, it may still get 5 stars, because the Kuro is not sold anymore. But a comparison would've been useful. Edge-lit LED (LCD) TVs have some inherent flaws, & it seems like Samsung have ironed them out.

What about 3D crosstalk? A specific mention of the same (whether it's present or absent) on all 3D LCD TV reviews will be useful. This will be one of the main deciding factors for a buyer. I sometimes like to watch TV lying on my couch. I will make sure to avoid TVs suffering from 3D crosstalk.

Does this model suffer from 3D crosstalk? Can anyone confirm this please?

 

[Anonymous]

even if it doesnt suffer from crosstalk bb , which it probably does . lying on a couch to watch it while viewing 3d content will diminish the picture quality , you need to view head on for maximum quality , as i found out during a recent demo of samsung 3dtvs...

the same inherant viewing angle issues that are common on all lcd tvs applies...

 

[Andrew Everard]

maxflinn:even if it doesnt suffer from crosstalk bb , which it probably does . lying on a couch to watch it while viewing 3d content will diminish the picture quality , you need to view head on for maximum quality , as i found out during a recent demo of samsung 3dtvs...
the same inherant viewing angle issues that are common on all lcd tvs applies...

So 'even if', 'which it probably does', and you're accusing us of doing a poor job???

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:maxflinn:even if it doesnt suffer from crosstalk bb , which it probably does . lying on a couch to watch it while viewing 3d content will diminish the picture quality , you need to view head on for maximum quality , as i found out during a recent demo of samsung 3dtvs...
the same inherant viewing angle issues that are common on all lcd tvs applies...

So 'even if', 'which it probably does', and you're accusing us of doing a poor job???

any other 3d samsung lcdtv that has been reviewed anywhere to date has suffered from crosstalk andrew ...

 

[Anonymous]

which is kinda where im coming from , its not so much what they have to do to get 5 stars , more of a case of , what do they have to do to not get 5 stars ? and how expensive do they need to be to lose a star on the performance per pound basis ? so far £7000 isnt doing it , even though the tv isnt without its problems ?

not accusations andrew , more observations , im sure clare will fill us in ..ta..

 

[TKratz]

bigboss: I would have expected this TV to have been compared with the reference Kuro. Yes, it may still get 5 stars, because the Kuro is not sold anymore. But a comparison would've been useful. Edge-lit LED (LCD) TVs have some inherent flaws, & it seems like Samsung have ironed them out.

The viewing angle problem certainly hasn't been ironed out, and I doubt it ever will. It simply is a constrain within the LCD technology. If you always watch TV right in front of the screen it is of couse not a problem.

bigboss: What about 3D crosstalk? A specific mention of the same (whether it's present or absent) on all 3D LCD TV reviews will be useful. This will be one of the main deciding factors for a buyer. I sometimes like to watch TV lying on my couch. I will make sure to avoid TVs suffering from 3D crosstalk.

Does this model suffer from 3D crosstalk? Can anyone confirm this please?

Well, I will put it a little differently than Maxx. I am yet to see a LCD TV without crosstalk. Or a review showing it for that matter. I wasn't able to test the 3D part of this Samsung TV when I saw it, and therefore cannot comment, but I doubt Samsung has eliminated this problem. I haven't at this point seen other reviews of the 9000 series from Samsung, but Flatpanels has just tested the 8000 series and confirmed that this model also suffers from crosstalk.

Actually all 3D TVs (yet) suffers from crosstalk, but on Panasonic VT20 the problem is negligible.

And now we are discussing 3D let's get some other points on the table (and sorry WHF team, but this will be technology based):

- Crosstalk will be less pronounced at plasma screen because of the faster response times
- On the other hand, putting on glasses will dramatically decrease the contrast ratio which definately favours the LCD sets
- If you like to wacth a 3D movie lying down you can forget about LCD. The picture will get washed out due to the LCD filter.

OLED would be the perfect technology for 3D. It is enourmously fast and has huge contrast ratios.

 

[bigboss]

Good post TKratz

 

[Ronald Archiebald]

Yes TKratz. You sure know your stuff about TV's. Well done.

 

[Andrew Everard]

TKratz:(and sorry WHF team, but this will be technology based)

Go on then, ready and waiting...

 

[Andrew Everard]

maxflinn:not accusations andrew , more observations , im sure clare will fill us in ..ta..

Solid work, max - now you're doing soft cop and hard cop all on your own, and trying to do the old 'never mind, I'm sure Clare will be more helpful', too...

So tell me all about '3D crosstalk', max, since you keep going on about it and how the whole world knows about it apart from this magazine, apparently: what causes it, and what does it look like?

When was the last time I heard such sweeping generalisations about why LCD TV wasn't suitable for 3D, due to its slow response time, and that only plasma could truly do the job? Oh yes, I remember: it was at a 3D seminar organised by - you've guessed it - Panasonic...

 

[TKratz]

Andrew Everard:

So tell me all about '3D crosstalk', max, since you keep going on about it and how the whole world knows about it apart from this magazine, apparently: what causes it, and what does it look like?

When was the last time I heard such sweeping generalisations about why LCD TV wasn't suitable for 3D, due to its slow response time, and that only plasma could truly do the job? Oh yes, I remember: it was at a 3D seminar organised by - you've guessed it - Panasonic...

About crosstalk from a not to be named source:
EDITED BY MODS - please don't quote copyright material

This is not Panasonic marketing at work but another highly skilled review site. I could post a link with pictures showing what crosstalk is about, but I am afraid that would be against the house rules

It is always dangerous to make sweeping generlisations, because they are often proven wrong by the exemptions, but at this point I am still to see a LCD set without crosstalk and yes, this is due to the way LCD TVs are build and operate.

I even believe Sony has declared that OLED would be better suited for 3D than the LCD technology.

 

[TKratz]

Andrew Everard:

TKratz:(and sorry WHF team, but this will be technology based)

Go on then, ready and waiting...

Hmm, too little tech for you Andrew?

I might have phrased this in a wrong way, I just know how you hate these LCD vs plasma discussions.

 

[Andrew Everard]

TKratz:Hmm, too little tech for you Andrew?

Didn't see any yet...

TKratz:I just know how you hate these LCD vs plasma discussions.

Then, again, you 'know' incorrectly...

 

[John Duncan]

TKratz:I just know how you hate these LCD vs plasma discussions.

How is your plasma btw Andrew?

 

[Andrew Everard]

Still excellent, JD...

 

[TKratz]

Andrew Everard:

TKratz:Hmm, too little tech for you Andrew?

Didn't see any yet...

TKratz:I just know how you hate these LCD vs plasma discussions.

Then, again, you 'know' incorrectly...

Got the wrong impression then, I better

 

[Andrew Everard]

TKratz:Got the wrong impression then, I better

Making assumptions based on what you've read rather than what you've actually seen can be dangerous...

 

[TKratz]

Assumptions about you or the product discussed?

As I haven't met you it is easy to get a wrong impression.

As for the product I have seen it. My observations is based on what I have seen, and these observations are then comfirmed by reviews of different sources.

 

[Andrew Everard]

The TV, of course: it's the subject of this thread, not me. And FWIW, and based on the sets I have seen, I think all current 3D sets are flawed to some degree; it's just that some display a greater degree of nausea-inducing swimminess, and create viewer-fatigue faster, than others.

 

[TKratz]

TKratz:

About crosstalk from a not to be named source:
EDITED BY MODS - please don't quote copyright material

This is not Panasonic marketing at work but another highly skilled review site. I could post a link with pictures showing what crosstalk is about, but I am afraid that would be against the house rules

Ok, I will rewrite that in my own words then:
Crosstalk is a phenomonen where pictures intended for the left eye and right eye are mixed up making some of the picture element visible where they shouldn't be. This creates a kind of unintended 'halo' effect around objects. Crosstalk occurs simply because the TV isn't fast enough (combination of too slow response time and refresh rate).

 

[TKratz]

Andrew Everard: And FWIW, and based on the sets I have seen, I think all current 3D sets are flawed to some degree; it's just that some display a greater degree of nausea-inducing swimminess, and create viewer-fatigue faster, than others.

Not sure about the FWIW part, but I definately agree that the whole 3D technology is immature at this point. It has been rushed to the market in the effort to get there before the competitors.

 

[Andrew Everard]

I believe, if I have understood the explanations I have been given so far, that the problem is more one of how quickly the image switches off, rather than what's commonly understood as response time. In other words there's some slight overhang in the image extinguishing, causing the visual confusion.

But again, given my current feelings about 3D, it's not something that concerns me unduly.

 

[The_Lhc]

TKratz:
Andrew Everard: And FWIW,

Not sure about the FWIW part,

For What It's Worth.

HTH, HAND!

 

[Andrew Everard]

TKratz:It has been rushed to the market in the effort to get there before the competitors.

Who are the competitors for 3D technology? Holidays? Cars? New houses? All those industries are somewhat in the doldrums at the moment. The only people the consumer electronics companies are competing with in launching 3D are themselves: they're fighting to make all of us who bought a large-screen TV in the past few years, or who are contemplating buying a budget big-screen set, spend a lot more on a premium-priced model with 3D. There's a lot riding on all this for the big consumer electronics companies.

 

[TKratz]

With competitors I of course mean other consumer electronics companies. I hope we can agree that Sony, Philips, Panasonic etc. are competitors.