I also think if you are going to spend £2000 on a TV you dont want it to look like its a 5 year old design . i have owned 5 plasmas over the last 10 years (including Panasonic) and have now swayed into the LED camp ( Samsung 8000 series). Partly because i have a very bright front room but also because the panny is so ugly!!, I have also been very fortunate to live in an area where it has been very easy to get demos on all the major models and the Demos have varied in quality according to the material viewed. At the weekend i watched a demo on the Panasonic and then played the Panasonic Demo Disc on the Samsung and to my eyes it was just as strong on the samsung set. You really should not judge the Samsung on Monsters v Aliens demos as it is not a great example,the Sony and Panny Demo discs blow it out of the water but that does not tell the whole story..I think it is amazing that these screens are now available to us consumers to buy and yet no major publication or internet sites have been able to do full,comprehensive reviews!! I have had to resort to Amazon.com and get reviews from the yanks!!
All this VT20 vs 50PSc7000 comparison is failing to address whether the VT20 is going to have deep black looking deep grey within a year, as many G10/V10 owners are reporting. Apparently Panasonic have said that the 2010 range feature more gradual voltage increases than 2009 which suggests the issue will be evident on the new tv's after a set number of hours, albeit occuring in slower manner.
If i was paying £2300 on a VT20 i would not want it being outshone by a tv costing £1000 less after a few months!
I have seen G10's recently which have been in use for best part of a year and the blacks were very un-black.
Samsung plasma's last year had reported buzzing issues although at least that issue should be apparent from as soon as the tv was set up.
As impressed as i was with the VT20 when i saw it this last weekend i think this 3D technology will be improved upon over the next couple of years so i don't think i will be opting for either of these tv's.
I need a new tv before the World Cup starts as at the moment i am using a tiny 26" LCD due to my Panasonic PX80 being stolen just before Xmas (the burglars had good taste at least!), now moved to a new house and looking for a 46-50" replacement.
If i go plasma again then i am leaning towards the 50PK990 at the moment which i have seen online for £1174 delivered. I have seen the pk590 and was quite impressed with the picture (didn't see any obvious signs of retention and it was running a Sky Sports HD demo).
One thing i haven't seen is how (generally speaking) the 200hz LED's handle sports such as football. Anyone have some opinion on this?
If i was paying £2300 on a VT20 i would not want it being outshone by a tv costing £1000 less after a few months!
I have seen G10's recently which have been in use for best part of a year and the blacks were very un-black.
Samsung plasma's last year had reported buzzing issues although at least that issue should be apparent from as soon as the tv was set up.
As impressed as i was with the VT20 when i saw it this last weekend i think this 3D technology will be improved upon over the next couple of years so i don't think i will be opting for either of these tv's.
I need a new tv before the World Cup starts as at the moment i am using a tiny 26" LCD due to my Panasonic PX80 being stolen just before Xmas (the burglars had good taste at least!), now moved to a new house and looking for a 46-50" replacement.
If i go plasma again then i am leaning towards the 50PK990 at the moment which i have seen online for £1174 delivered. I have seen the pk590 and was quite impressed with the picture (didn't see any obvious signs of retention and it was running a Sky Sports HD demo).
One thing i haven't seen is how (generally speaking) the 200hz LED's handle sports such as football. Anyone have some opinion on this?
bigboss
Moderator
JSM15:
All this VT20 vs 50PSc7000 comparison is failing to address whether the VT20 is going to have deep black looking deep grey within a year, as many G10/V10 owners are reporting. Apparently Panasonic have said that the 2010 range feature more gradual voltage increases than 2009 which suggests the issue will be evident on the new tv's after a set number of hours, albeit occuring in slower manner.
Is it? I recall Clare mentioning somewhere that Panasonic blacks get deeper with time, rather than the other way round.
JSM15:
One thing i haven't seen is how (generally speaking) the 200hz LED's handle sports such as football. Anyone have some opinion on this?
Generally speaking, TVs look better with the 200Hz option switched off.
All this VT20 vs 50PSc7000 comparison is failing to address whether the VT20 is going to have deep black looking deep grey within a year, as many G10/V10 owners are reporting. Apparently Panasonic have said that the 2010 range feature more gradual voltage increases than 2009 which suggests the issue will be evident on the new tv's after a set number of hours, albeit occuring in slower manner.
Is it? I recall Clare mentioning somewhere that Panasonic blacks get deeper with time, rather than the other way round.
JSM15:
One thing i haven't seen is how (generally speaking) the 200hz LED's handle sports such as football. Anyone have some opinion on this?
Generally speaking, TVs look better with the 200Hz option switched off.
JSM15:
All this VT20 vs 50PSc7000 comparison is failing to address whether the VT20 is going to have deep black looking deep grey within a year, as many G10/V10 owners are reporting. Apparently Panasonic have said that the 2010 range feature more gradual voltage increases than 2009 which suggests the issue will be evident on the new tv's after a set number of hours, albeit occuring in slower manner.
Panasonic has been very much in the the line of fire because of this loss in black level. It is good to keep in mind when bying a TV, but what most people do not know is, that ALL TV's loose contrast ratios and black level over time. This is of course not something that is put on top of the comprehensive specification sheet to sell the TV's by the manufacturers.
It might be the problem is more severe on the Panasonic sets than the competitors. That I don't know, but the problem is not limited to Panasonic.
All this VT20 vs 50PSc7000 comparison is failing to address whether the VT20 is going to have deep black looking deep grey within a year, as many G10/V10 owners are reporting. Apparently Panasonic have said that the 2010 range feature more gradual voltage increases than 2009 which suggests the issue will be evident on the new tv's after a set number of hours, albeit occuring in slower manner.
Panasonic has been very much in the the line of fire because of this loss in black level. It is good to keep in mind when bying a TV, but what most people do not know is, that ALL TV's loose contrast ratios and black level over time. This is of course not something that is put on top of the comprehensive specification sheet to sell the TV's by the manufacturers.
It might be the problem is more severe on the Panasonic sets than the competitors. That I don't know, but the problem is not limited to Panasonic.
YES
this loss its part of the aging process , its normal this occours over time but what is happening to panasonic is that the sets were aging to fast - so at a very low daily usage you should notice that the blacks are not so that black anymore - so the extra dolars you spend beliving you were buying the best set could be applied elsewere .... when im talking about fast aging process -im refering to 2009 sets ... as Tkratz says , in the 2010 sets, the increase of voltage to compensate the aging process is supost to happen more gradualy but again there's not enough data to comprove this .. but its supost to do better than 2009 .
Another point ... theres not enough long term studies to evaluate the black levels/contrast ratios over time .. and yes this aging process will occour with every set from each brand .. but with panasonic this was happening to fast and in fact more severe than the competitors .. As we speak , from what i've heard their starting this long term studies with measurments of various indicators to evaluate how they change over time ..
this loss its part of the aging process , its normal this occours over time but what is happening to panasonic is that the sets were aging to fast - so at a very low daily usage you should notice that the blacks are not so that black anymore - so the extra dolars you spend beliving you were buying the best set could be applied elsewere .... when im talking about fast aging process -im refering to 2009 sets ... as Tkratz says , in the 2010 sets, the increase of voltage to compensate the aging process is supost to happen more gradualy but again there's not enough data to comprove this .. but its supost to do better than 2009 .
Another point ... theres not enough long term studies to evaluate the black levels/contrast ratios over time .. and yes this aging process will occour with every set from each brand .. but with panasonic this was happening to fast and in fact more severe than the competitors .. As we speak , from what i've heard their starting this long term studies with measurments of various indicators to evaluate how they change over time ..
Hi Big Boss ,
Just to clarify things :
LCD - If you throw yourself on the couch with a 90 degree tilt angle the screen goes totally dark. This is not the case with Samsung's plasma TVs. The plasma models can be viewed from any angle.
Just to clarify things :
LCD - If you throw yourself on the couch with a 90 degree tilt angle the screen goes totally dark. This is not the case with Samsung's plasma TVs. The plasma models can be viewed from any angle.
Just because the Samsung LED backlit models do apear to be showing some issues with certain aspects regarding 3D is no reason to believe that their Plasmas will have the same issues and IMHO the issues re viewing angles is related to LCD tech and will not affect their Plasma sets. Also the "The Pana VT20 will trounce the Samsung because it's a Pana and £1000 more" is also just guess work as nobody has done a direct comparision of the 2 TVs yet alone taking into account the masive price differance between the 2 TVs. And why should the C7000 Plasma definatly have image retension issues just because someone has reported the C450 to have minor issues? do both models use the same screen? I think not, was the TV in question properly calibrated???
Samsung make some cracking Plasma sets and with proper calibration can give spectacular results, they also look a darn sit nicer on the eye over the Panasonics. Maybe the VT20 will have slightly better blacks than the C7000 but does that equate to waranting a extra £1000 of your had earned cash???
Samsung make some cracking Plasma sets and with proper calibration can give spectacular results, they also look a darn sit nicer on the eye over the Panasonics. Maybe the VT20 will have slightly better blacks than the C7000 but does that equate to waranting a extra £1000 of your had earned cash???
bigboss
Moderator
CM7:
Hi Big Boss ,
Just to clarify things :
LCD - If you throw yourself on the couch with a 90 degree tilt angle the screen goes totally dark. This is not the case with Samsung's plasma TVs. The plasma models can be viewed from any angle.
AS I said, I don't know if even the plasma models are affected. 3D technology is very new & one can only know if the crosstalk is due to LCD technology or Samsung 3D technology when the plasma models are reviewed as well. If it's a problem with LCDs, then even the Sony 3D TVs should suffer from the same problem. Although Samsung is doing itself a disservice if only LCD models are affected, & yet it releases a plasma TV under the same model range.
I don't know where you got this information from (that only LCDs suffer from this), because I couldn't find it.
I rang Robert Whyte Ltd. today & was told that Samsung has recalled its PS50C7000 TVs due to some issues with its processor. Apparently, Samsung uses a different processor for EU models. This is a temporary glitch which Samsung is sorting out. Some other companies have started shipping the TV, but he said that they're likely to be recalled to correct the problem. You can confirm with Robert Whyte if you don't believe me.
Samsung makes very good TVs & I'm not against Samsung but I'm just putting things in the right perspective so that readers can make an informed decision. That's why I'm researching bits about this Samsung model to make sure this thread gives other forum members all they want to know about it.
We do have die hard fans on this forum! Will = Oppo, then Gel = Pioneer, & now CM7 = Samsung!
Hi Big Boss ,
Just to clarify things :
LCD - If you throw yourself on the couch with a 90 degree tilt angle the screen goes totally dark. This is not the case with Samsung's plasma TVs. The plasma models can be viewed from any angle.
AS I said, I don't know if even the plasma models are affected. 3D technology is very new & one can only know if the crosstalk is due to LCD technology or Samsung 3D technology when the plasma models are reviewed as well. If it's a problem with LCDs, then even the Sony 3D TVs should suffer from the same problem. Although Samsung is doing itself a disservice if only LCD models are affected, & yet it releases a plasma TV under the same model range.
I don't know where you got this information from (that only LCDs suffer from this), because I couldn't find it.
I rang Robert Whyte Ltd. today & was told that Samsung has recalled its PS50C7000 TVs due to some issues with its processor. Apparently, Samsung uses a different processor for EU models. This is a temporary glitch which Samsung is sorting out. Some other companies have started shipping the TV, but he said that they're likely to be recalled to correct the problem. You can confirm with Robert Whyte if you don't believe me.
Samsung makes very good TVs & I'm not against Samsung but I'm just putting things in the right perspective so that readers can make an informed decision. That's why I'm researching bits about this Samsung model to make sure this thread gives other forum members all they want to know about it.
We do have die hard fans on this forum! Will = Oppo, then Gel = Pioneer, & now CM7 = Samsung!
We do have die hard fans on this forum! Will = Oppo, then Gel = Pioneer,
& now CM7 = Samsung!
forgetting someone
& now CM7 = Samsung!
forgetting someone
bigboss
Moderator
BB i agree with your concern about helping members using this forum , i have the same opinion as you.. so i try to do my best to bring the credible information and toughts here ...
And i believe we can all learn from each other ... ok first lets tell you were i read samsung lcd 3d vs plasma 3d :
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/article.php?subaction=showfull&id=1273049388 (hope there is no problem posting this)
by Rasmus Larson
And i believe we can all learn from each other ... ok first lets tell you were i read samsung lcd 3d vs plasma 3d :
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/article.php?subaction=showfull&id=1273049388 (hope there is no problem posting this)
by Rasmus Larson
One of my retailers call me this morning and HE as arrived ... but its in lisbon - 3 hours away - so if dont get retailer closer i will only see it weekend , then if my eyes like it then its going to be in my living room... before my birthday
So ..you guys could all colect some pennies and offer me the premium touch remote 4 my birthday
So ..you guys could all colect some pennies and offer me the premium touch remote 4 my birthday
bigboss
Moderator
it looks stunning , but i wouldnt want one with my dogs , or kids around , it looks so fragile..
maxflinn:by the way guys , theres a review of the 50vt20 now online ..
Am I being a bit dense? I can't see it.
Am I being a bit dense? I can't see it.
12th:maxflinn:by the way guys , theres a review of the 50vt20 now online ..
Am I being a bit dense? I can't see it.cant post links to other review sites here , its out there..
Am I being a bit dense? I can't see it.cant post links to other review sites here , its out there..
bigboss:Oh yes, maxflinn = Panasonic TVs & Yamaha receivers
Perhaps we should make a Panasonic & Yamaha club Maxflinn
Perhaps we should make a Panasonic & Yamaha club Maxflinn
CM7:
BB i agree with your concern about helping members using this forum , i have the same opinion as you.. so i try to do my best to bring the credible information and toughts here ...
And i believe we can all learn from each other ... ok first lets tell you were i read samsung lcd 3d vs plasma 3d :
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/article.php?subaction=showfull&id=1273049388 (hope there is no problem posting this)
by Rasmus Larson
His name is Rasmus Larsen, and he is my favorite Danish reveiwer. Hugely compentent!
But be careful making these type of links. Last time I made a link to a focus article on Flatpanels it was removed.
Then I would also like to clarify, that I have nothing against Samsung either. Many expert agreed, that picture wise Samsung B850 was the best plasma TV last year (just beating V10). I would however still opt for the Panasonic for different reasons (like THX profile and better resistance towards image retention).
It is very likely that Samsung C7000 will be the best plasma TV this year, at least for the price. We will have to see what the reviews says.
And yes, we can't know for sure either whether this years Samsung's will suffer from image retention, but I have heard some early indication from AVS threads which does I consider it likely.
BB i agree with your concern about helping members using this forum , i have the same opinion as you.. so i try to do my best to bring the credible information and toughts here ...
And i believe we can all learn from each other ... ok first lets tell you were i read samsung lcd 3d vs plasma 3d :
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/article.php?subaction=showfull&id=1273049388 (hope there is no problem posting this)
by Rasmus Larson
His name is Rasmus Larsen, and he is my favorite Danish reveiwer. Hugely compentent!
But be careful making these type of links. Last time I made a link to a focus article on Flatpanels it was removed.
Then I would also like to clarify, that I have nothing against Samsung either. Many expert agreed, that picture wise Samsung B850 was the best plasma TV last year (just beating V10). I would however still opt for the Panasonic for different reasons (like THX profile and better resistance towards image retention).
It is very likely that Samsung C7000 will be the best plasma TV this year, at least for the price. We will have to see what the reviews says.
And yes, we can't know for sure either whether this years Samsung's will suffer from image retention, but I have heard some early indication from AVS threads which does I consider it likely.
TKratz:
bigboss:Oh yes, maxflinn = Panasonic TVs & Yamaha receivers
Perhaps we should make a Panasonic & Yamaha club Maxflinn
yamasonic ?
bigboss:Oh yes, maxflinn = Panasonic TVs & Yamaha receivers
Perhaps we should make a Panasonic & Yamaha club Maxflinn
yamasonic ?
A dilemma - PS50C7000 for £1229 plus £17 delivery or LG 50PK990 for £1174 delivered?
No reviews yet for the Samsung and no THX mode but you get 3D and very little in it price wise.
No reviews yet for the Samsung and no THX mode but you get 3D and very little in it price wise.
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