sacd on bluray to external dac: DSD to lpcm

[jimmy.cross]

Hi,

I am trying to find a relatively cheap bluray player (<£400) that could be used also as a CD/SACD transport for my Audiolab mdac. The cd part is easy but not as obvious with sacd. In principle, the player has to convert the DSD signal into a high-res lpcm stream, so the dac can process it.

Is there any player that allows to do this conversion?(let's say the sony s790?!?) I am aware about the Oppo's models but I would like to find other options that are easier to find/cheaper where I live

Even if the lpcm signal is output via hdmi, there are devices to separate the audio-video streams...

 

[AnotherJoe]

Most current Sony blu-ray players such as the BDP-S370 can output sacd as PCM via HDMI.

 

[jimmy.cross]

Ok, so let's say I pick the Sony s790. Shall I assume that it can output the pcm signal?

Moreover, accoring to the WHF review, it is a limited CD player, but would it be a good CD transport for my MDAC?

Cheers!

 

[f1only]

Ok, so let's say I pick the Sony s790. Shall I assume that it can output the pcm signal?

It looks like it, the specifications are here Clicky

Moreover, accoring to the WHF review, it is a limited CD player, but would it be a good CD transport for my MDAC?

Cheers!

Good question, there are always other BD players to consider, like the PIONEER BDPLX55, CAMBRIDGE AUDIO AZUR 651BD & 751BD to name but 3 that can all play SACD/ CD, probably better than the Sony.

I would suggest maybe going out to audition a few to see what you like in the hearing department, all are subjective to ones tastes.

At the end of the day it all depends on what you are willing to spend to get what you want. 2 i have listed are over your budget & most if not all the latest Sony players do play SACD.

Regards ...

 

[DandyCobalt]

I might be confused here, but my understanding was that if you use the blu-ray player simply as a transport, and have an external DAC to do the decoding, then you should output a DSD signal from the blu-ray? I thought that outputing PCM/LPCM meant that the player had already done the signal decoding dac part?

Happy to stand corrected.

By the way the Cambridge Audio 651 and 751 (even better) do a very good DAC job, particularly if you like music. (better than a Cyrus preXpdQX in my case).

 

[The_Lhc]

I might be confused here, but my understanding was that if you use the blu-ray player simply as a transport, and have an external DAC to do the decoding, then you should output a DSD signal from the blu-ray? I thought that outputing PCM/LPCM meant that the player had already done the signal decoding dac part?

Happy to stand corrected.

I'm not sure many standalone DACs will handle DSD natively, generally it's only some AV receivers that will do that (I can't remember which ones off the top of my head).

 

[jimmy.cross]

Hi,

unfortunately, most stereo dacs on the market do NOT decode DSD. The input data has to be PCM.

I would assume that a s790 should do the job, IF the signal is only converted to PCM, however, if any kind of processing is done before the convertion, the sound will be affected.

If I remember correctly, some reviews report that the sound is a bit thin on the sony, but it is not clear to me if that comment was playing through an AV receiver or using the internal dac of the player. I would assume the first, though, which means that the signal is somehow touched.

 

[AnotherJoe]

DSD to PCM is a lossless decode/encode so their shouldnt be any difference in quality.

 

[jimmy.cross]

The conversion should be lossless, I agree (although lossless is one thing and bitperfect is a totally different thing). Just a question that made me think the oposite:

If you use an external AV receiver to decode and process the digital sound (in 5.1 or stereo mode), the sound should be the same, regardless of the player we use (minor differences from jitter may be expected though). Why do the reviewers find so clear differences between the sound of different players? (i.e, just read the review from the Panasonic BDT500 and the Sony s790).

I just don't understand that part unless the player actually does something with the signal before sending it out (it may be lossless, but not bitperfect).

 

[manicm]

DSD to PCM is a lossless decode/encode so their shouldnt be any difference in quality.

In the case of SACD, the term lossless is completely meaningless. A good, proper SACD player maintains DSD right up to the point that it's converted to analogue. Cheaper ones, and that includes most premium Blu-ray universals like my CA751, Oppos etc use cheaper decoders that convert to PCM before analogue. Some, however, may output DSD streams through HDMI - but then you need an A/V amp that has a good DSD decoder built-in,

Which is why I stick to the view that if someone is dead serious about SACD playback they should give dedicated SACD players a thought. Marantz make a few for example.

 

[jimmy.cross]

DSD to PCM is a lossless decode/encode so their shouldnt be any difference in quality.

Which is why I stick to the view that if someone is dead serious about SACD playback they should give dedicated SACD players a thought. Marantz make a few for example.

Good point. I just bought a new TV and I don't have a CD player or a BD player, but I do have a MDAC. So the idea was to get a BD player that gives good image quality and use it as a CD transport also.

This lead me to a situation were I am trying to decide between the Sony S790 and Panasonic bdt500. The Sony seems to offer the extra posibility of SACD, although I don't even have a SACD disk at home, whereas the panasonic seems to have a decent dac "built-in".

 

[AnotherJoe]

Blind tests have shown their is no difference is sound quality between PCM and DSD. Add in the fact that most multi-channel SACDs are mixed in PCM anyway before being converted into SACD for mastering.

In theory DSD has the same frequency range as 20bit PCM, 24+bit PCM can give a better frequency range.

If you think you can hear differences its more likely down to other components rather than whether its DSD or PCM.

 

[manicm]

Blind tests have shown their is no difference is sound quality between PCM and DSD. Add in the fact that most multi-channel SACDs are mixed in PCM anyway before being converted into SACD for mastering.

In theory DSD has the same frequency range as 20bit PCM, 24+bit PCM can give a better frequency range.

If you think you can hear differences its more likely down to other components rather than whether its DSD or PCM.

This is not quite true - it depends entirely on the recording. If DVD-A was a failure from a consumer point of view, then SACD was a failure from a recording point of view - apparently it was much more expensive and complex to record/master in true DSD than DVD-A which is PCM based. And many SACDs were not recorded properly as such. From all accounts a properly recorded SACD will definitely give the same PCM recording a good beating.

 

[AnotherJoe]

Blind tests have shown their is no difference is sound quality between PCM and DSD. Add in the fact that most multi-channel SACDs are mixed in PCM anyway before being converted into SACD for mastering.

In theory DSD has the same frequency range as 20bit PCM, 24+bit PCM can give a better frequency range.

If you think you can hear differences its more likely down to other components rather than whether its DSD or PCM.

This is not quite true - it depends entirely on the recording. If DVD-A was a failure from a consumer point of view, then SACD was a failure from a recording point of view - apparently it was much more expensive and complex to record/master in true DSD than DVD-A which is PCM based. And many SACDs were not recorded properly as such. From all accounts a properly recorded SACD will definitely give the same PCM recording a good beating.

post a link to backup your point of view please.