Rotel RA-10, what speakers to go with it?

[DaanS]

Hi everyone,

For the last couple of days I'v been scrounging the internet for info on ... well the rest of the system to go with my turntable. I don't want anything fancy, just an amp that will support the turntable, a cd-player, a tapedeck if I feel adventurous and want to make a mixed tape (burning a cd just isn't the same) and push speakers suitable for my 4x7 living quarters.

The Rotel RA-10 amplifier really caught my eye and when the review here was praising the phone stage I think I made a lap around the house in excitement (well, more a turn on the spot that might have involved some jumping because my house isn't that big). Straightforward yet capable. I don't need a usb, a radio or anything like that. I just want to turn records and that's exactely what this amp will give me.
The review also said it's kinda quirky when it comes to the speakers you attach to it. I had set my eyes on the dali zensor 1 or 3 speakers, but the review specifically names those as being an ill fit for this amplifier. It is judged to play well with the Acoustic Energy 301, but it would seem I can't get my hands on those where I live, and they seem to be somewhat more expensive than I'm willing to spend.

So I'm wondering, how quirky is quirky and how bad is this ill match? I'm thinking of just buying the amp, and than take that to local stores and try out different speakers, but if you can tell me it's hard to find a good match I might have to veer away from this idea. A shame, because the RA-10 has really menaged to charm me with it's simple look on life and it's design.
So no, I will not be lead away from this but I would love to know what your experiences are with this amplifier and what speakers you use alongside it.

Greetings, Daan

 

[DaanS]

when the review here was praising the phone stage

>< Really? I feel kinda awkward now and for some reason I can't edit my post.

 

[Andrewjvt]

drummerman or david at frank harvey

sure they will be on soon to give some advice

 

[DaanS]

Sweet. Looking forward to it

 

[Coll]

Presumably you are buying from a shop near you, why dont you go there and listento some speakers that they stock and make your mind up that way. I like a smooth sound you may not. Im sure there are plenty of speakers that will work well with the Rotel. You may not have liked the sound of the combo that the WHF reviewer liked. Personally I find all modern kit overbright and end up with listening fatigue. You may not.

 

[Al ears]

As Coll says take the amp along and audition. Where abouts in the world are you?

There is plenty of choice around and do not dismiss the Dali's, just because the reviewer didn't like them does not mean to say that you will. Speakers can be very personal things.

NOTE:- the AE 301's can now be had for £375 new on eBay.

Yoy should try the Wharfdale 220's and Cambridge Audio Aero 2's if you can.

 

[matthewpiano]

My choice with Rotel would be B&W. I'd consider either going for the latest 686s2 or keep an eye out for a nice, pre-owned pair of 685s or 686s.

 

[DaanS]

Thanks Coll and mr Ears. Sound advice indeed, and I fully intend to listen to different speakers at stores before settling. I live in the Netherlands and the hifi stores I'v been to close to where I live are either devilishly expensive or they don't seem to know what they are talking about, which is kinda weird. I don't know, maybe the lad just had a bad day. This means I have to go further from home, so for the moment I'v been doing research online so that I can visit stores with at least some setups in mind which I'd like to experience when I'm there.
The reviewer made quite a big deal about matching the RA-10 with certain speakers (ie. they "struggle to drive our reference ATC speakers" with conviction) but re-reading that part of the review I think he might just have meant the amp lacks the power to fully drive them, which kinda makes sense I guess for a 40W/channel amplifier. I am not interested in volume though, not in the little appartementbuilding where I live. In fact I am much more interested in a setup that menages to deliver on a low volume, which my current setup lacks because .... well, old and decrepit I guess.

The Warfdale's caught my eye as well. Only on paper though, the nearest store where I know they have them is a 50 euro drive away, so before I go there I will explore some other venues.

 

[DaanS]

Yes I'v heard of other people pairing up the Rotel with B&W as well, and the 686s2 is actually quiet affordable I see (though still 40-60 quid a speaker more than what I'v been looking at so far). More importantly they seem to have it in one of the stores where I live, along with the dali's so that should make for a great opportunity to compare. Thanks Matthew.

 

[Al ears]

Thanks Coll and mr Ears. Sound advice indeed, and I fully intend to listen to different speakers at stores before settling. I live in the Netherlands and the hifi stores I'v been to close to where I live are either devilishly expensive or they don't seem to know what they are talking about, which is kinda weird. I don't know, maybe the lad just had a bad day. This means I have to go further from home, so for the moment I'v been doing research online so that I can visit stores with at least some setups in mind which I'd like to experience when I'm there.The reviewer made quite a big deal about matching the RA-10 with certain speakers (ie. they "struggle to drive our reference ATC speakers" with conviction) but re-reading that part of the review I think he might just have meant the amp lacks the power to fully drive them, which kinda makes sense I guess for a 40W/channel amplifier. I am not interested in volume though, not in the little appartementbuilding where I live. In fact I am much more interested in a setup that menages to deliver on a low volume, which my current setup lacks because .... well, old and decrepit I guess.

The Warfdale's caught my eye as well. Only on paper though, the nearest store where I know they have them is a 50 euro drive away, so before I go there I will explore some other venues.

Probably spending too long in those 'brown cafes'.

I would pay much attention to any reviewer that is trying to drive these with a 40 watt amp

 

[DaanS]

they don't seem to know what they are talking about, which is kinda weird ... ... "struggle to drive our reference ATC speakers"

I would pay much attention to any reviewer that is trying to drive these with a 40 watt amp

I ... ... ... Indeed, I see what you mean. I should have checked and see what these reference speakers actually were. I can't seem to find any atc speaker you would want to hook up to this little fellow. At least not on paper and my experience in the real wold is nonexistent because everything I currently have are tidbits I got from others, so I just enjoyed using that and never bothered to look if they'd actually mesh. I'll sit on it for a bit, but I'm fairly certain I'm going to order the amp and take it with me to a couple of stores. Thanks again

 

[Blackdawn]

Hi, personally i would do it the other way around and find the speakers i love first and then find an amp to drive them.

 

[rainsoothe]

Hey

Imo, for that price range, XTZ 93.23 mkII are THE speakers to get, followed by Dali Zensor 3 - mind you I haven't heard the Q Acoustics Concept 20 or 3020. The XTZs come from Sweden, and the good thing is that you can return them for a full refund if you don't like them (as they're are sold online) - but nothing I heard in their price range performed such an amazing dissappearing act (I couldn't tell where the sound was coming from). As for amp, matching it with the speakers is really important. The Rotel RA10 is ok-ish, though a bit underpowered for a room that size. Try to find a used Rotel RA 1062, Rotel RA 1520, Arcam A19 or Roksan Kandy K2 - the extra juice will show. Oh, and budget for some decent speaker stands (XTZ make their own, but you can find cheaper I guess).

 

[peterpiper]

i would go for high effieciency speakers with the rotel, the kefs I have are the lowest i would use, yet these can still go to chest thumping levels without stress in my medium size room, anything past 12 o clock on the dial get uncomfortably loud, which becomes piontless for enjoyment, unless you want nighclub levels earbashing torture ,..... but then you wouldnt have the rotel if you did !

the 40w is a bit conservative , as i understand the rotel can deliver instant peak currents better thsn most 40w budget amps

the q acoustics floorstanders 3050 or 2050i are very effiecient and apparantly gel well with the rotel house sound

 

[ID.]

i would go for high effieciency speakers with the rotel, the kefs I have are the lowest i would use, yet these can still go to chest thumping levels without stress in my medium size room, anything past 12 o clock on the dial get uncomfortably loud, which becomes piontless for enjoyment, unless you want nighclub levels earbashing torture ,..... but then you wouldnt have the rotel if you did !

the 40w is a bit conservative , as i understand the rotel can deliver instant peak currents better thsn most 40w budget amps

the q acoustics floorstanders 3050 or 2050i are very effiecient and apparantly gel well with the rotel house sound

FWIW, the way most amps are designed 12 o'clock would be hitting the limit and probably clipping depending on the source and how the song has been mastered.

The reasons for this have been covered in many other threads so I won't go into them.

 

[peterpiper]

I know clipping when i hear it, my ears are very sensitive , i have never pushed an amp to clipping anyone who does with an amp of 40w either using inefficient speakers in a large hall with the bass up full or just deaf !

some recordings can go beyond 12 , such is the level

 

[ID.]

I know clipping when i hear it, my ears are very sensitive , i have never pushed an amp to clipping anyone who does with an amp of 40w either using inefficient speakers in a large hall with the bass up full or just deaf !

some recordings can go beyond 12 , such is the level

My point is that I wanted to be sure you weren't implying that if it's that loud at around half way around the dial imagine how loud it can go if you keep turning it. Just so that it was understood that 12 o'clock meant "at almost full volume". With quieter older CDs and vinyl I'm sure you could go past 1 without clipping.

As you say, sensitive speakers will make a big difference.

 

[peterpiper]

to the op, the rotel does indeed have a better than average phono for such an amp and should do fine, but i can thorougly recommend the ca 651 to bring a touch more clarity and depth if you fancy an upgrade without spending silly money , but the rotel phono gives it a good run

 

[DaanS]

Wow so much to think about, thanks everyone

The biggest problem I'm facing now is quite simply money. The models I'v been seriously considering cost about 400 euro a piece as that's something I can afford and at the end of the line that's still 1500 euro for an entire set (amp 400, cd-player 300, turntable 300 -bought that last week- and speakers 500). Now I'm not buying all of this at ones, but I am sort of dependent on the money I would normally save for traveling in the upcomming holidays. Money I will now happily spend to improve the sound quality replacing my current set. I was really happy with the soundimprovement just because of the better cartridge this turtable comes with.
Many of the suggested alternatives cost a lot more because they are either more expensive allready, or the don't have a phono stage (such as the CA651) which means another 150+ euro for a pre-amp. This is a must for me, as my main source of music is vinyl. I have a lot of cds as well but the turntable is where it's at for me. I love taking care of the records, needle and hanging the albumcovers from my wall. As such I do want a cd-player because that's still half my collection, but any new purchases I make will be on vinyl. I also feel that a more powerfull amp asks for more formidable speakers, which again asks for more money than I have to spendm but I´m probably wrong there.

Which is what brought me to the Rotel. For 400 euro it seems to give me everything I need for 300+ dollars less than other amps, and looking damn sexy while doing it. As Rainsoothe suggested there´s the option to search for secondhand equipement, but I want this to be the set that´s truly my own first, and the one that introduces me to listen to music in more proper way than the ragtag collection of equipment I have now.

Sorry if I sound a bit closeminded after asking for your advice. I guess in getting that first set "mistakes" will be made. Blackdawn for instance told me to find speakers I'd love first and an amp to drive them later. This makes perfect sense, perfect sense indeed. I haven't found the speakers I love yet though, but I AM heavily crushing on the RA-10, and not just because of the budget. For where I am now it just seems like the perfect package the fact it doesn't have all the digital extra's amps have these days, and has all the nobs instead of screen menus speaks heavily in it's favour in my book. I´m not interested in playbacks from an mp3 player or computer-laptop, and this way there´s just that much less that can break down. And like I said, it looks really sexy indeed ... worst reason to allow to come into play, I know, but eh It's why I chose the Audio Technica lp120 over a project or raga turntable in that pricerange, I just love that classic SL1200 look.

I was wondering; Peter spoke of high efficiency speakers. What does that mean?

Oh, I said earlier I have a 7x4 room, but that's including the open kitchen and bathroom+corridor. Effective listening space is closer to 4x4.

 

[Coll]

If you are not carefull you will get bogged down with all the different options. If you are keen on the Rotel buy it and then audition different speakers with it. Im sure you will find some you like.

 

[rainsoothe]

400 will get you the way more talented Rotel RA 1062 or RA 1520 second hand. Just sayin' - keep an open mind about SH, sometimes you find models in great shape, and electronics are safer then speakers for example.

 

[DaanS]

If you are not carefull you will get bogged down with all the different options.

Oh yeh, allready happening

Totday I went to a hifistore not to far from where I work. Just to ask how this auditioning works which I'm planning for the weekend. He urged me to bring my own records, cracks in the vinyl included and it's no problem to set up my own equipment if I'd wish to and select additions to it that way. Briljant, and they even have separte rooms where I can listen to their wares in depth ones I'v narrowed things down. Great service indeed.

Nice people, but when I told them about my interest in a Rotel (not a part of their selection) that was obviously a bad idea because Rotels are "hard" (by which I think he meant loud/rough on the highs, mid-highs and not very competent on the lows) and difficult to pair with speakers (by which he probably meant their household brand Dali), so if I want something simple why don't I take a NAD (their household brand for amps) because that works great with their (household) Dali's (and of course doesn't sound "hard" but good). He also said a buildin phono-stage will never perform as well as even a cheap seperate pre-amp. That's something I heard before, but if that's really the case why would a reviewer get excited about an amp with a good phonostage.

As such I can't tell yet if that was the salesman speaking or an actuall enthusiast giving a genuine warning. Not that it really matters, because it's good to listen to different setups and I will, but it did make me wonder. Are the differences between brands really that big that you can say the one is clearly better suited for a certain genre of music than the other? There's a lot of videos on youtube of people demonstrating their setup, but a lot gets lost in translation to youtube and since I don't have their setup I don't know what those videos must tell me. What I did notice though is that almost all videos featuring a Rotel used music I really don't care for, music I consider kinda cold, flat and artificial. If that is what the amp excels at, will it do credit to the warm voices of the likes of Sinatra, Streisand and Groce; the playfull nature of a Jethro Tull or a Queen, or the beautifull baselines of Tool? Or is that really more dependant of the speakers you buy alongside it?

There's a store in my homecity (not the city where I work) where they have both the Rotel RA12 and some B&W speakers on display (which is supposed to be a good match) so I'm going to see all of this for myself, but it did raise this question that has kept me thinking for 4 hours now. Any thoughts?

This is a bit of a different topic, so maybe it's better to make a new thread for this? Not to sure what your policy is on this.

 

[DaanS]

400 will get you the way more talented Rotel RA 1062 or RA 1520 second hand. Just sayin' - keep an open mind about SH, sometimes you find models in great shape, and electronics are safer then speakers for example.

I hear you I'v actually been looking at vintage sets because as a kid I was allways mesmerized by amps that had the dialthingies (for some reason my grasp of the english language has left me and I don't know what to call the analogue WATT meters, is it a dial?). But in all honesty I just don't know what to look for so that's also why, for now, I wanted to buy at a store and have a return policy if needed. Rest assured though, that vintage set will find it's way into my home one day. They just look way to nice not to.

I did find a SH Marantz PM17 for 425 euro, supposedly in nearmint condition, on our regional equivalent of ebay. Box included. It's almost as big as my house and I don't like that, but I'm thinking about it. Read some good things about that un.

 

[Coll]

Thats not an easy question to answer as all systems sound different to a certain extent I am always fighting to eliminate sibilance by not having a bright system.

But if you are not carefull in doing that some music can become dull. The problem is some cds are not so well recorded as others and not just old ones so sometimes you have to suffer some brightness so that other cds dont sound dull and lifeless.

I dont have records anymore but most people say they are warmer sounding and you may find that records sound fine on your new system but cds are are bit brighter which you may or may not like.

In my own opinion equipment should be suitable to play any type of music but it may well be that some equipment is better for some genres than other.

 

[DaanS]

I see, which brings us back to something you said earlier.

Personally I find all modern kit overbright and end up with listening fatigue. You may not.

I am very curious to the differences between a modern set and the one I have now, because despite it's failings it has warmth in spades; especially with my new turntable and the capable AT95e cartridge, and I love that about it. Listening to Streisand's powerfull voice on this setup makes you feel like you're floating over neverending glades in a warm springafternoon and at those times I'm wondering why I'm looking at a new setup at all. And than I listen to any (classic) rock/metal album and at times I love the low undercurrents, pianotones and guitarplay in Dire Straits' Telegraph road, but kinda cringe when "The Killer" makes his appearance on Sad Wings of Destiny and everything sounds muffled. No cartridge is gonna save you from that. My current amp does somewhat (I suspect the problem lies with the speakers, so I will take my current amp with me this weekend) because it has 5 sliders to temper or boost low mid high etc.

But yes, a good turntable with a good cartridge will bring out the warmth in your music. The difference with AKAI's cheapest usb turntable in that regard was astounding. If you can find an album you adore on vinyl for cheap that would benefit from that, you should just take it and give it a spin in a store, see for yourself. The main attraction in a turntable for myself is the whole exercise of putting on an album though, but I gladly take warmth along it

edit: actuall stripe that last section, I'm babbling. All my experience shows is that a cheapass cartridge/turntable isn't a good idea if you want to play your music with conviction, and all of you allready knew that of course.