afterworks
Well-known member
I'm not sure if it's been said already but, if your able to, some room treatment is the best way to go.
I know it's not something easy to consider for a living space, my main listening space is my office/studio but it's quite easy to have acoustic treatment that looks part of the furniture and attractive.
Ben
I know it's not something easy to consider for a living space, my main listening space is my office/studio but it's quite easy to have acoustic treatment that looks part of the furniture and attractive.
Ben
matt49
Well-known member
afterworks said:
The problem with physical room treatment is that in order to treat bass modes the absorbent material needs to be very thick. You need a thickness of absorbent material one quarter of the relevant wavelength. So for a 40Hz bass mode (wavelength 8.5m) you'd need a 2m thickness of absorption. That ain't gonna happen in most homes.
In tems of correcting nulls, its not so straight forward. You can't boost it, as you say.
So all you can do is run the Dspeaker test - see the nulls. Move your speakers around a bit (in / out / toe-in / toe-out / etc) and then run the Dspeaker test again. And repeat until you get a position where nulls are not so bad. Potentially move your listening position too if you can. Only slightly different position of speakers/yourself in the room is going to affect this. The nulls only happen in certain places in the room so you need to find a null-free space.
Thats all you can do as far as I know. Few of us have a perfect room unfortunately, even with all these toys.
So all you can do is run the Dspeaker test - see the nulls. Move your speakers around a bit (in / out / toe-in / toe-out / etc) and then run the Dspeaker test again. And repeat until you get a position where nulls are not so bad. Potentially move your listening position too if you can. Only slightly different position of speakers/yourself in the room is going to affect this. The nulls only happen in certain places in the room so you need to find a null-free space.
Thats all you can do as far as I know. Few of us have a perfect room unfortunately, even with all these toys.
afterworks
Well-known member
Yep, I absolutely agree it ain't gonna happen in most homes. But I figure it's worth mentioning as I personally think it's a better option, if you can do it.
I personally have bass traps, a cloud as well as absorbers around my main spce. But, Im not usual, my main space is studio/listening/office room.
But then I'm a producer and mix engineer too, so I need them. I will say that even having a cloud is worth it. That alone made a huge difference to my room fo reflections. Mainly slapback etc, but when I took it all down for re decortation I couldn't belive the difference it made.
it's not a solution for everyone, but if your able to, it's worth it.
I personally have bass traps, a cloud as well as absorbers around my main spce. But, Im not usual, my main space is studio/listening/office room.
But then I'm a producer and mix engineer too, so I need them. I will say that even having a cloud is worth it. That alone made a huge difference to my room fo reflections. Mainly slapback etc, but when I took it all down for re decortation I couldn't belive the difference it made.
it's not a solution for everyone, but if your able to, it's worth it.
matt49
Well-known member
wilro15 said:
Or, at the risk of repeating myself, you can add a small sub. Experiment with positioning and ideally find somewhere out of the way to put it.
afterworks said:
I quite like the idea of a cloud for my study.
wilro15 said:
Using the antimode will remove the peaks from the bass response so the overall bass energy will be lower, you can then boost the bass slightly without setting off the room modes, subjectively this might help.
But really Matt49 is correct, a sub positioned correctly will most probably fill in the null, the antimode will eq the main speakers and the sub as a system.
afterworks
Well-known member
afterworks said:
I quite like the idea of a cloud for my study.
[/quote]
Honestly, if you can it's totally worth it, you can make it fit in ith your decor.
People will happily spend £100's on a new DAC, a new cartridge etc etc...but this is a low cost thing that truely makes a difference.
They're easy enough to build yourself. Mine is 1800mm(L) x 1200mm(W) suspended down on some chains by about 6 inches.
Buy some RS45 100mm thick Rockwool from your local DIY place. They come in 1200 x 600 slabs, so nice and easy to get what you need, with minimual cutting. Make a frame to go round it, get some chicken wire to staple on the front to stop any dropping. Then cover it in Cara material, the material is imporant, needs to be 100% breathable. You *can* use some dust sheets that BnQ sell, but they're not fire proof. Plus with the Cara, you can choose any colour, and it really is the better material.
Or look at somewhere like this, http://gikacoustics.co.uk they sell build to order panels for a decent price. I've bought some of my later addictions, and Cara material from them and been happy.
matt49
Well-known member
afterworks said:
Thanks for the tips. I've got a few GIK panels going spare which I could get fitted to the ceiling, though I rather like the look of those mushroom-shaped thingies.
afterworks said:
Can you post a picture? It doesn't sound a lounge friendly solution, and 2m thick traps are definitely out. I used this to calculate the main modes, and surprise there are a bunch of them at 43Hz, 47Hz, 49Hz and 50Hz. I've tried experimenting already with speaker position fore and aft, there's little scope to move out wider as there is a sofa running up each sidewall, and I want to keep the speakers from firing directly into them
afterworks
Well-known member
[/quote]
Can you post a picture? It doesn't sound a lounge friendly solution, and 2m thick traps are definitely out. I used this to calculate the main modes, and surprise there are a bunch of them at 43Hz, 47Hz, 49Hz and 50Hz. I've tried experimenting already with speaker position fore and aft, there's little scope to move out wider as there is a sofa running up each sidewall, and I want to keep the speakers from firing directly into them
[/quote]
Ok, so I would say, just take a step back from the charts for a min. They deal in absolutes. As in to totally eradicate something, which is essentially perfection.
Which is something that we're always chasing in hifi! But! We don't, we get as close to it as we can.
So no, your not gonna put 2m absorbers in, thats ridiculous and unless your a top end studio, your not going to do! But, is it worth taking measures to atleast get closer? I'd say so yes.
You can put in quite shallow bass traps in the corners, and that will still make a nice difference. The same as 2m thick ones? No, but ones that you can make work for your room that don't intrude too much, yes.
The cloud option I think is a really good way to go...
http://www.allnoisecontrol.com/img/customersupplied/cs_clouds_froggtowninn_1.jpg
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/bass-traps-acoustic-panels-foam-etc/70921d1215237903-diy-ceiling-cloud-srsdrumcloud.jpg
Can you post a picture? It doesn't sound a lounge friendly solution, and 2m thick traps are definitely out. I used this to calculate the main modes, and surprise there are a bunch of them at 43Hz, 47Hz, 49Hz and 50Hz. I've tried experimenting already with speaker position fore and aft, there's little scope to move out wider as there is a sofa running up each sidewall, and I want to keep the speakers from firing directly into them
[/quote]
Ok, so I would say, just take a step back from the charts for a min. They deal in absolutes. As in to totally eradicate something, which is essentially perfection.
Which is something that we're always chasing in hifi! But! We don't, we get as close to it as we can.
So no, your not gonna put 2m absorbers in, thats ridiculous and unless your a top end studio, your not going to do! But, is it worth taking measures to atleast get closer? I'd say so yes.
You can put in quite shallow bass traps in the corners, and that will still make a nice difference. The same as 2m thick ones? No, but ones that you can make work for your room that don't intrude too much, yes.
The cloud option I think is a really good way to go...
http://www.allnoisecontrol.com/img/customersupplied/cs_clouds_froggtowninn_1.jpg
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/bass-traps-acoustic-panels-foam-etc/70921d1215237903-diy-ceiling-cloud-srsdrumcloud.jpg
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