Rega Planar 1 Plus

stereoman

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Mar 22, 2016
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Hi. How the heck can you produce TTs with no 33 / 45 switch ? Not only singles are made in 45 speed but also many 12" records in 45. Who bothers to take the plate on and off all the time ? It's not even manual pulley switch. I cannot get it. Do not tell me you do not need 45 speed change...please.
 

trevorok

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Dec 31, 2015
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Crazy it's like going back to using Manuel chokes on cars who wants to remove platers for speed changing these days
 

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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trevorok said:
Crazy it's like going back to using Manuel chokes on cars who wants to remove platers for speed changing these days
Come on... It's more like ABS

Anyway, I though vinyl fans are used to things like this.
 

Strictly Stereo

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Jan 29, 2018
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stereoman said:
Hi. How the heck can you produce TTs with no 33 / 45 switch ? Not only singles are made in 45 speed but also many 12" records in 45. Who bothers to take the plate on and off all the time ? It's not even manual pulley switch. I cannot get it. Do not tell me you do not need 45 speed change...please.
Just my two pence worth, but this seems like a very sensible compromise to make in a budget turntable.
 

stereoman

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Mar 22, 2016
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Strictly Stereo said:
stereoman said:
Hi. How the heck can you produce TTs with no 33 / 45 switch ? Not only singles are made in 45 speed but also many 12" records in 45. Who bothers to take the plate on and off all the time ? It's not even manual pulley switch. I cannot get it. Do not tell me you do not need 45 speed change...please.
Just my two pence worth, but this seems like a very sensible compromise to make in a budget turntable.
Ok but does a simple (simplest) 33/45 switch costs so much ?
 

knaithrover

Moderator
Nov 24, 2013
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Totally agree, when I had a Rega tt I stopped listening to 45's entirely as I couldn't be bothered with the faff on. I totally understand the trade off and even the entry level models sound very good but no good for lazy ar#es like me..
 

Gray

Well-known member
Quite a few people play mostly at 33 and hardly ever change speed. Others don't regard manually changing speed as a hassle.

I've often alternated disc-by-disc between 33 and 45, so when I bought my TT it was a case of no switch, no sale (I used to do mobile discos, 10 seconds would have been too long for a speed change!)
 

stereoman

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Mar 22, 2016
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Gray said:
Quite a few people play mostly at 33 and hardly ever change speed. Others don't regard manually changing speed as a hassle.

I've often alternated disc-by-disc between 33 and 45, so when I bought my TT it was a case of no switch, no sale (I used to do mobile discos, 10 seconds would have been too long for a speed change!)
I regard manual pulley switch as reasonable but dismantling the whole plate to play one or two songs it's just kinda silly...
 

nopiano

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Feb 15, 2009
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I never play 45rpm so it doesn’t bother me. But Michell, unlike Rega, do engineer the turntable so you can access the pulley without removing anything!
 

MajorFubar

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I realise it's one of your long-standing and oft-repeated gripes but it's not ever going to go away while people keep buying these kind of turntables by the droves. If I was buying a new budget turntable I'd probably gravitate towards something like an Audio Technica LP5 rather than one of these formica-worktop turntables from Rega and Project, and this is at least one of the reasons.
 

stereoman

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Mar 22, 2016
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MajorFubar said:
I realise it's one of your long-standing and oft-repeated gripes but it's not ever going to go away while people keep buying these kind of turntables by the droves. If I was buying a new budget turntable I'd probably gravitate towards something like an Audio Technica LP5 rather than one of these formica-worktop turntables from Rega and Project, and this is at least one of the reasons.
Yes, absolutely and good spotted that I come back with this gripe. I can get that they buy them in droves but I cannot understarnd that people seem to igonore 45s ?? How is it possible to ignore 45s in the recent Vinyl revival...everyday I come across them and the old ones are cheap as hell in so many second hand shops but still they are being produced - one can buy new in many popular Music centres like Saturn or Media Markt etc. A bit strange to me that there is "no need for them" claimed...

P.S. There are about 2 mln of them on Discogs.
 

Gray

Well-known member
nopiano said:
I never play 45rpm so it doesn’t bother me. But Michell, unlike Rega, do engineer the turntable so you can access the pulley without removing anything!
In view of your first sentence nopiano, I feel bad repeating this opinion, but it's based on my experience.

All else being equal, unless a 12" 45 rpm single has been played on it, I don't think a turntable has been heard to its full potential.

The 35% difference in speed doesn't hurt, but it's that cutting of a single track accross the useable width that does the trick.

One of mine spreads 2m19secs and you feel you could ride a bike in the groove, but most 12" 45s have under 10 minutes cut.

By contrast, I've got a 7" single, with 3 tracks per side, that plays at 33 rpm and sounds appropriately horrendous.

(I've also got a 10" 45 single with a 78 rpm single cut on the B side which I'd love to hear. I've got the wind-up gramophone to play it, but its metal needle tracks at about a kilogram, so I probably won't bother!)
 

MajorFubar

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Gray said:
I've also got a 10" 45 single with a 78 rpm single cut on the B side which I'd love to hear. I've got the wind-up gramophone to play it, but its metal needle tracks at about a kilogram, so I probably won't bother!)
They should have kept 78rpm for singles IMO, but even then they were infatuated with making the carrier as small as practical, so 10" was a no no. Shame. 7" 78s couldn't really have been pushed beyond two and a half minutes without making it a very quiet cut, negating the quality advantage.
 

nopiano

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Gray said:
nopiano said:
I never play 45rpm so it doesn’t bother me. But Michell, unlike Rega, do engineer the turntable so you can access the pulley without removing anything!
In view of your first sentence nopiano, I feel bad repeating this opinion, but it's based on my experience.

All else being equal, unless a 12" 45 rpm single has been played on it, I don't think a turntable has been heard to its full potential.

The 35% difference in speed doesn't hurt, but it's that cutting of a single track accross the useable width that does the trick.

One of mine spreads 2m19secs and you feel you could ride a bike in the groove, but most 12" 45s have under 10 minutes cut.

By contrast, I've got a 7" single, with 3 tracks per side, that plays at 33 rpm and sounds appropriately horrendous.

(I've also got a 10" 45 single with a 78 rpm single cut on the B side which I'd love to hear. I've got the wind-up gramophone to play it, but its metal needle tracks at about a kilogram, so I probably won't bother!)
I do have a couple of 12” singles tucked away, but haven’t played them for about 25 years! I totally get the point, both the maths and the impact of the sound! I simply don’t know if they are still produced, as all I see are £20+ 180 gram LPs, usually cut from digitised CD masters, which rather defeats the purpose to my mind.
 

andyjm

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Jul 20, 2012
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Strictly Stereo said:
stereoman said:
Hi. How the heck can you produce TTs with no 33 / 45 switch ? Not only singles are made in 45 speed but also many 12" records in 45. Who bothers to take the plate on and off all the time ? It's not even manual pulley switch. I cannot get it. Do not tell me you do not need 45 speed change...please.
Just my two pence worth, but this seems like a very sensible compromise to make in a budget turntable.
Strictly, you are in the Hifi biz? Here's a business idea for free....

The motor on the rega is a synchronous AC motor which locks itself to the 50Hz mains. Increasing the frequency of the mains will increase the motor speed. Increasing the mains to 67.5Hz will speed the platter up to 45rpm.

Ofgem are probably not going to oblige with the mains, but I would have thought that you could find a company (probably in China) who would make an economical switchable frequency drive as a plug in for the Rega. Electrically, its not much of a jump from a SMPS or a stepper motor driver to a drive of this type. Plug the Rega into the 'Strictly' box, plug the box into the wall, and you can now select 33 1/3, 45 or whatever takes your fancy. There are commericial variable frequency drives available for large machinery, but they are ££££. A low power version shouldn't cost too much.

As a general rule, synchronous motors aren't that keen on running at the wrong frequency - depending on the design they can overheat and do all sorts of bad stuff, but the tichy little thing driving a platter in a Rega should be fine.
 

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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andyjm said:
Strictly, you are in the Hifi biz? Here's a business idea for free....

The motor on the rega is a synchronous AC motor which locks itself to the 50Hz mains. Increasing the frequency of the mains will increase the motor speed. Increasing the mains to 67.5Hz will speed the platter up to 45rpm.

Ofgem are probably not going to oblige with the mains, but I would have thought that you could find a company (probably in China) who would make an economical switchable frequency drive as a plug in for the Rega. Electrically, its not much of a jump from a SMPS or a stepper motor driver to a drive of this type. Plug the Rega into the 'Strictly' box, plug the box into the wall, and you can now select 33 1/3, 45 or whatever takes your fancy. There are commericial variable frequency drives available for large machinery, but they are ££££. A low power version shouldn't cost too much.

As a general rule, synchronous motors aren't that keen on running at the wrong frequency - depending on the design they can overheat and do all sorts of bad stuff, but the tichy little thing driving a platter in a Rega should be fine.
Interesting

*mail1*
 

chris_bates1974

Moderator
Feb 28, 2013
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Currently have a Planar 3, having owned a Project and another Rega before. None of which had switches for speed. For my money, the inconvenience of changing 45s every few minutes is way worse that that for changing where the belt sits once or twice during a session.

I also prefer the clean looks that having minimal buttons or switches gives.

Perhaps it would be a nice idea to have versions available for both preferences, with those requiring a speed switch paying slightly more?
 

Strictly Stereo

Well-known member
Jan 29, 2018
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andyjm said:
Strictly, you are in the Hifi biz? Here's a business idea for free....
I am and thank you for the suggestion, but I think that Rega already has its own options for customers who want electronic speed switching, in the form of the TT-PSU and Neo PSU.
 

MajorFubar

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Mar 3, 2010
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chris_bates1974 said:
Perhaps it would be a nice idea to have versions available for both preferences, with those requiring a speed switch paying slightly more?
By the time you're paying £500+ for a turntable I'd expect them to include a fuss-free method to change speeds, be it mechanically or electronically, for free, except maybe those turntables where the motor is outside the platter so it's a simple job in any case. Ever tried explaining to a someone with a £35 Crosley why your highly superior player costing >10x more needs to be half dismantled and reassambled just to play 45s? No, neither have I as a Thorens owner, but I can imagine their guffaws.
 

stereoman

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Mar 22, 2016
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Strictly Stereo said:
andyjm said:
Strictly, you are in the Hifi biz? Here's a business idea for free....
I am and thank you for the suggestion, but I think that Rega already has its own options for customers who want electronic speed switching, in the form of the TT-PSU and Neo PSU.
Yeah costing as much as the turntable (?)... ;)
 
MajorFubar said:
By the time you're paying £500+ for a turntable I'd expect them to include a fuss-free method to change speeds, be it mechanically or electronically, for free, except maybe those turntables where the motor is outside the platter so it's a simple job in any case. Ever tried explaining to a someone with a £35 Crosley why your highly superior player costing >10x more needs to be half dismantled and reassambled just to play 45s? No, neither have I as a Thorens owner, but I can imagine their guffaws.
For mechanical reliability - there are Regas that have been around for 40 years that are still with us. I doubt any Crosley bought so far will be around by the middle of this century... :)

But I see your point, and it is one that has bugged me a little over the years. It’s sort of accepted in hi-fi though isn’t it, which was fine back in the 90s, but no so much in this day and age with those from outside of the hi-fi circle. Non audiophiles don’t want to know the whys and wherefores, they just want it to be able to do it. And it’s a reasonable request. As I deal with Elipson, Technics, Audio Technica, and Clearaudio, everything I do has electronic speed change from around £300, so I don’t have any decks where I have to get into that explanation any more :)
 

MajorFubar

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davidf said:
For mechanical reliability - there are Regas that have been around for 40 years that are still with us. I doubt any Crosley bought so far will be around by the middle of this century... :)
Point taken but there are working Garrard AT6's that have been around 20 years longer, so their argument it was for reliability reasons doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It was omitted just for cheapness, and sold to gullible hifi enthusiasts as a deliberate simplification to improve sound quality.

davidf said:
As I deal with Elipson, Technics, Audio Technica, and Clearaudio, everything I do has electronic speed change from around £300, so I don’t have any decks where I have to get into that explanation any more
Yeah just shows it can be done.

(Anyone wondering what the complication is but is afraid to ask: you can't easily alter the speed of a synchronous AC motor because it's locked to the 50Hz or 60Hz mains frequency. So with a belt drive turntable, the only way to change between 33.3 and 45 rpm without changing the RPM of the motor is to flip the belt between two different sized pulleys, either manually or by a built-in mechanism. Cheap turntables like the Crosely will have a basic DC motor whose speed you can vary by changing the voltage. Speed stability will not be great. Methods exist to lock DC motors to a precise speed, such as servo, PLL or quartz-locked, but cheap turntables won't have any of those; lucky if it even has twin trimmers on the board to adjust the 33 and 45 voltages.)
 

andyjm

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Jul 20, 2012
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MajorFubar said:
(Anyone wondering what the complication is but is afraid to ask: you can't easily alter the speed of a synchronous AC motor because it's locked to the 50Hz or 60Hz mains frequency. So with a belt drive turntable, the only way to change between 33.3 and 45 rpm without changing the RPM of the motor is to flip the belt between two different sized pulleys, either manually or by a built-in mechanism. Cheap turntables like the Crosely will have a basic DC motor whose speed you can vary by changing the voltage. Speed stability will not be great. Methods exist to lock DC motors to a precise speed, such as servo, PLL or quartz-locked, but cheap turntables won't have any of those; lucky if it even has twin trimmers on the board to adjust the 33 and 45 voltages.)
Hmmn. Just read my post further up in the thread how to do this, or google 'variable frequency synchronous motor drive'
 

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