Rega P5 new cartridge

[Andro78]

Hey all you wise people

I have had a Rega P5/exact for allmost 2years now. I am thinking about spicing things up with a new cartridge. The ones I have been looking at are Goldring 2500, Goldring Elite & Ortofon Black.

The Exact that I am using now is doing a great job. As some of you know it is very musical and a good fit for Rega systems. I would however like abit more detail at times.

Any of you have any experience with Cartridges other than Rega's own for a Rega P5?

Thank you in advance

Andro

 

[gbhsi1]

the ortofon black is I'm sure a great cartridge..have you thought about a MC cartridge like the rondo red or blue?

 

[CJSF]

I've got an Ortofon Black for sale . . . left over from when I went through the exact same 'hunt a cartridge' execise, for my P5 . . . ?

CJSF

 

[Al ears]

the ortofon black is I'm sure a great cartridge..have you thought about a MC cartridge like the rondo red or blue?

If he has he'd be thinking about a phono pre-amplifier as well!

Scratch that comment, if he has the Tubebox SE then he does have facility to use moving coils of some description.

Doh!! Should read sigs more carefully!

 

[Andro78]

I have actually considered some of Ortofons MC. Mainly the entry level in the Cadenza series. I am however abit worried if the sound is too thin with Ortofon. Apart from the Phonostage, I have an all Rega setup. And Rega can be a little lean sounding. So I think I have to be carefull with the match. Do you have any experience with the Ronda series?

 

[Andro78]

Sounds like you werent too happy with the 2M Black or?

 

[gbhsi1]

I have actually considered some of Ortofons MC. Mainly the entry level in the Cadenza series. I am however abit worried if the sound is too thin with Ortofon. Apart from the Phonostage, I have an all Rega setup. And Rega can be a little lean sounding. So I think I have to be carefull with the match. Do you have any experience with the Ronda series?

my only experience is with the rondo red and it is by no means thin sounding. Its the bass and the treble that are very strong without overpowering the midrange. Now if you go further up the range the character will be the same but the detail retrieval will be much better. The rondo blue or bronze might be something you enjoy. The 2m black i think would be an exciting listen with top rate timing - which is something you might enjoy..I only have the 2m blue as a point of reference and I loved the cartridge. a lot of choices out there

 

[DandyCobalt]

Did you consider a Goldring 1042?

Not sure how it compares to a Goldring 2500, but from what I can see on other posts/forums they offer different approaches, and perhaps the 1042 might be a better pairing with what you consider to be fairly lean sounding Rega components.

I have read that the 2500 is very good at pulling out detail, but the 1042 is warmer and cuddlier, and perhaps tracks better on audiophile pressings.

Perhaps with a P5 it is more than capable to step up a level or two from these?

 

[stevieg330]

Hi,

I have an Ortofon Cadenza Black but have used various Ortofon carts in the past, mainly from the Kontrapunkt range, I think the first cartridge I had was a 540mkII but always preferred the MC's.

From my experience I wouldn't say that any of the Ortofon Cadenza's, entry level or otherwise could be classed as thin sounding. I think they have what I would call a modern sound, detailed but not particularly warm. The one exception to this would be the Cadenza bronze which has been engineered with a little extra richness.

I think they are all great carts, not cheap, but great sounding (to me anyway)

I guess if you do like the warmer type of sound then perhaps they may not suit, with the possible exception of the Bronze but I would certainly see if you can get a demo of one (difficult I know)

I think one of the guys on here has a Michell Orbe running a Cadenza red so may be worth getting his opinion.

Hope This Helps

Kind Regards

Steve

 

[CJSF]

Sounds like you werent too happy with the 2M Black or?

. . . ? No it did not suit me Andro78, but for detail and bass it takes some beating in the world of MM. I prefer warm, 1980's analogue sound, the M2 Black is a 'modern' sound, appreciated by many? I also tried Dynavector 10x5 and 20x, Sumiko Blue, Linn Adikt, I nearly plumped to stay where I had started, with the M2 Blue, wood bodied Grados were in the mix as well. There were others on the list, the problem was and is tracking stock down and auditioning.

I was lucky, being in the right place at the right time . . . and I have a very friendly understanding local dealer. The Sumiko I ended up with is way above what would be practical to recommend for the P5. Some even say it will out performs the P5? . . . Not so in my experience with a few adjustments, see my signature. Plus of course, low output MC needs an appropriate step up or phono stage. For me, the only way to go is an adjustable MC transformer.

The Black has superb detail, a solid top end, extended bass and everything in between is smooth as you would expect, see the reviews, it just does not have the valve like warmth I prefer.

As I say, its there if you want an M2 Black? . . . or any one who fancies a Black? cliford.stone@ntlworld.com

CJSF

 

[Andro78]

Thank you very much for your opinion and thoughts on the issue. I think it has been very helpful. I have come to the conclusion, that it will be an MC cartridge, Goldring or Ortofon. Think I will make a significant step up from the Exact. Preferable 3times the price. My Tubebox is adjustible and can handle both MM and MC. If it turns out to be insufficient, and it may well be. But I can always upgrade this next.

So sorry I cant help out with the 2M Black.

Andro

 

[Andro78]

I think we are down to Rondo Bronze, Cadenza Red or Goldring Elite. Thank you very much for your help. I think you made me keep Rondo in the race.

 

[Andro78]

Hi Steve

Thank you very much for sharing your experience.

I like a nice balance between warm and "modern sound". So I guess it comes down to how I match the cart. At the moment I use a tubebox. Not sure if it can handle the Cadenza, but it may draw a clinical cart abit in the opposit direction. Giving it a warm glow while keeping the high detail value, who knows.

Dont know what your thoughts is on this? Or am I way off

/ Andro

 

[stevieg330]

Hi Andro,

When I was talking with the Ortofon distributor about the Cadenza range, he told me that the Red is a more laid back cartridge, the blue was highly detailed, the bronze slightly richer sounding and the black was 'whatevers on the recoding, you will hear it'.

Sorry, I don't know anything about the Tubebox as I have a Trichord Dino. Some people have commented that the black needs a much better phono stage than mine, and they're probably right but I'm happy with it for the moment. I suspect that the same thing may be said of yours, but I should imagine that it would show a large improvement with the better cart, even if it is not allowing it to perform at it's best.

I would change the cart first and see how you get on. A home demo would be best with your phono stage but I know in this day and age it's pretty difficult (if not impossible) to do.

I don't know if this would be any use to you whatsoever but I have some recordings made on my deck with the black. It might give you an idea as to the sort of sound these cartridges have. Let me know if you think it would help at all and I could send you something to listen to. Just an idea!

Cheers

Steve

 

[Andro78]

Steve, I would love that very much. Already been on youtube to check out any uploads with carts of my interest. If you would find the time, I would be very happy to receive any demo on Andersravn6@hotmail.com. Would be great to get an idea of what to expect.

I am pretty sure you are right about the Phonostage. But as you know, we usually upgrade in stages. This do of course mean, that the element upgraded will most likely outperform the rest. But hey, that is how the hi-fi business keeps us hooked, right? Always that last frontier.

Once again thank you very much for your help.

Andro

 

[stevieg330]

Hi Andro,

No problem about showing you what the cartridge can do, what sort of music are you into as it may be better if it was something relevant to you.

Let me know and I'll sort something out

Kind Regards

Steve

 

[CJSF]

Followed your thread Andro78 . . . see where you are going. The main problem these days is auditioning. I am lucky, my local dealer loans cartridges out, one sweats a bit installing (swipe the cantilever, you pay). I also have another dealer who will loan cartridges, 'Devine Audio', very helpful, will post a cartridge to you on apro.

http://www.divineaudio.co.uk/hi-fi/cartridges/cat_40.html?page=1

They do all the models you are interested in. Plus I would suggest the Lyra Dorian, Lyra Delos, the Grado Reference Master 1, and the Sumiko Black Bird, should all be in the mixing pot as well? I certainly had them in my sights, it was only the fact that I picked up from my local dealer the Sumiko Pearwood Celebration at a giveaway price, brought it home to listen, it did not come out of my arm . . . otherwise I was on the post and try road from Divine Audio. The MCt and cartridge cost me less than £500, the phrase 'gift horse in the mouth' come to mind.

Obviously adding extra cartridges muddies the water, being able to try before you buy is a help.

The other thing I have strong views on is 'step ups'. Transformers are the old fashioned way, but in my opinion still the best, they ad no noise to the signal, in fact they ad no colouration to the signal as do powered phono/step up stages. Good ones are expensive, so I went via fleBay, using a pair of Ortofon T5 plug in phono step ups as a stop gap, while I tracked down the 'MCt' transformer I now use.

Personal view of course, pays your money etc., etc.

CJSF

 

[CJSF]

Followed your thread Andro78 . . . see where you are going. The main problem these days is auditioning, I am lucky, my local dealer loans cartridges out, one sweats a bit installing (swipe the cantilever, you pay). I also have another dealer who will loan cartridges, 'Devine Audio', very helpful, will post a cartridge to you on approval. You will need to Google Divine Audio.

They do all the models you are interested in. I would suggest the Lyra Dorian, Lyra Delos, the Grado Reference Master 1, and the Sumiko Black Bird, should all be in the mixing pot as well? I certainly had them in my sights, it was only the fact that I picked up from my local dealer the Sumiko Pearwood Celebration at a giveaway price, brought it home to listen, it did not come out of my arm . . . otherwise I was on the post and try road from Divine Audio.

Obviously adding extra cartridges muddies the water, being able to try before you buy is a help.

The other thing I have strong views on is 'step ups'. Transformers are the old fashioned way, but in my opinion still the best, they ad no noise to the signal, in fact they ad no colouration to the signal as do powered phono/step up stages. Good ones are expensive, so I went via fleBay, using a pair of Ortofon T5 plug in phono step ups as a stop gap, while I tracked down the 'MCt' transformer I now use.

Personal view of course, pays your money etc., etc.

CJSF

 

[CJSF]

Further thoughts Andro78 . . . the level of cartridge you are heading for on a 'straight P5' might be over kill? Been there, done that, I upgraded my P5 with a new metal Sub Platter and Ruby Thrust Bearing, the white Rega drive belt and an isometric (low slung) arm counter weight. I also went through the Acrylic Platter option, and VTA shims.

Rather than go through the step by step, blow by blow of the upgrade, suffice to say it has been a revelation, some working and some for me, not a good idea.

Another personal view was to avoid any silver coated copper wire, preferring 'Oxygen Free Copper', silver wire is in my humble opinion, the down fall of the M2 Black, crisp, analytical, but no soul. Purer copper has a soul that it imparts to the music? That’s my personal view.

CJSF

 

[Andro78]

CJSF, I very much appreciate your thoughts on this!

I know that it might very well be overkill at the moment. But my plan is to trim my system in generel. I find the Exact a little too laid back at times. So I thought a coil cart is a good place to start. I dont know if Cadenza red or Rondo Bronze is overkill on a standard P5. Guess that is relative. There will alway be a bottleneck somewhere in the system. Think that is why we keep spending money. My drive belt is soon up for its secound change. So the white is an obvious choice.

But once again thanks for taking your time to shear your thoughts. It really helps alot in the info gathering.

Andro

 

[CJSF]

CJSF, I very much appreciate your thoughts on this!

I know that it might very well be overkill at the moment. But my plan is to trim my system in generel. I find the Exact a little too laid back at times. So I thought a coil cart is a good place to start. I dont know if Cadenza red or Rondo Bronze is overkill on a standard P5. Guess that is relative. There will alway be a bottleneck somewhere in the system. Think that is why we keep spending money. My drive belt is soon up for its secound change. So the white is an obvious choice.

But once again thanks for taking your time to shear your thoughts. It really helps alot in the info gathering.

Andro

I would seriously consider a metal sub platter/ruby bearing, it livens things up nicely and extracts more detail, it might even help your Exact? The plastic sub really is not up to the full potential of the P5?

CJSF

 

[Andro78]

Hi Steve

Well, I actually listen to all sorts. Jazz, indie, 70's rock, you name it....

So I dont know what you have lying around on vinyl. But I think anything will do. Should I choose, then maybe some quite stuff like Feist, Ray Lamontagne, Sade kinda thing. Think that is what I spent most of my vinyltime on. Also gives me a chance to hear the detail.

Thank you very much in advance.

Andro

 

[Andro78]

Just discovered that the metal subplatter is not to be used with P5. :?

 

[stevieg330]

Hi Andro,

I think the nearest I have to that are a couple of Diana Krall lps, 'The Very Best of' and 'Quiet nights'. Oh I also have 'Priscilla Paris loves Billy' which is rather good.

I'll sort something out over the weekend and let you know

Cheers

Steve

 

[CJSF]

Just discovered that the metal subplatter is not to be used with P5. :?

Who told you that? Its true when you look at the specs., the P5 is often not listed, but it can be used. There is a problem if you try to use a 25mm acrylic platter, it fouls the wood surround. However, I've used a 20mm acrylic, overall, I did not like the analytical sound it gives, very modern . . . so I use the metal sub and the original 12mm glass platter, very nice balance IMHO.

CJSF