Do I need a Phono Pre-amp?

[Kloëtjüpke]

I recently acquired a Rega P2 with Nd3 cartridge. Previously I had an old Dual cs-505-2 with Ortofon OM10 cartridge.
After installing the Rega I have to say that the sound is rather disappointing compared to the Dual. Could it be due to the running-in time or is the Rega simply a lower quality record player? The vocals in particular are noticeably soft and there is little depth in the sound overall. I play this record player in combination with a Rotel A14 MKII amplifier and B&W 606 speakers.
The Rotel has a built-in phono pre-amp. I am now wondering whether I should purchase an external phono pre-amp to take the sound to a higher level. What do you think about this, would this help? And then of course the question which one, and without spending too much money? I would like your advice.

 

[djh1697]

Your Rega P2 should sound much better than your Dual 505. If you bought it new, then I would talk to the dealer you purchased it from.

 

[Integralista]

Hi, your Planar 2 and same new cartridge nd03 are both classleaders. They both but cartridge more need to runn in as you wrote. Than your Rotel A14mk2 is very good amp, with a lot of energy. Rotel is just not specialist for phono stages. Here a saparate phono like Rega Phono MM will soumd a lot better. I remember also your old Dual 505mk2, this was quite good player.

 

[Al ears]

Hi, your Planar 2 and same new cartridge nd03 are both classleaders. They both but cartridge more need to runn in as you wrote. Than your Rotel A14mk2 is very good amp, with a lot of energy. Rotel is just not specialist for phono stages. Here a saparate phono like Rega Phono MM will soumd a lot better. I remember also your old Dual 505mk2, this was quite good player.

I would disagree, he is comparing the two decks using the phono stage in the Rotel, which is quite good.
This is his reference so he has to work out why the Rega isn't sounding better because it certainly should.
It would be interesting to see if he bought new because if he did there is something wrong with that cartridge.....
I suspect that the turntable hasn't been set up correctly or the cartridge is bad as the Planar 2 is not normally sold with that cartridge fitted.
The ND3 should be way better than the OM10.
An external phono stage isn't going to help.
Perhaps the OP could explain where he "acquired" it from......

 

[daytona600]

CS505 sold in vast numbers. had one myself & can still show a clean pair of heels to many modern decks including a P2
Dual / Rekkord still made in germany

F400 – Rekkord

www.rekkord-audio.com

 

[Al ears]

CS505 sold in vast numbers. had one myself & can still show a clean pair of heels to many modern decks including a P2

Not with that cartridge fitted I feel.

 

[Kloëtjüpke]

I would disagree, he is comparing the two decks using the phono stage in the Rotel, which is quite good.
This is his reference so he has to work out why the Rega isn't sounding better because it certainly should.
It would be interesting to see if he bought new because if he did there is something wrong with that cartridge.....
I suspect that the turntable hasn't been set up correctly or the cartridge is bad as the Planar 2 is not normally sold with that cartridge fitted.
The ND3 should be way better than the OM10.
An external phono stage isn't going to help.
Perhaps the OP could explain where he "acquired" it from......

FYI: I bought the Rega P2 new, including the factory-installed Nd3 cartridge (available in the Netherlands).

 

[Al ears]

FYI: I bought the Rega P2 new, including the factory-installed Nd3 cartridge (available in the Netherlands).

Ah. Ok. In that case I would ask dealer to check the install as it doesn't sound right.
That combination should be better than your original set up.
If it isn't there is clearly something amiss.

 

[Kloëtjüpke]

Ah. Ok. In that case I would ask dealer to check the install as it doesn't sound right.
That combination should be better than your original set up.
If it isn't there is clearly something amiss.

Thanks for the advice, I will contact the dealer.

 

[nopiano]

Thanks for the advice, I will contact the dealer.

How close is the volume between the two? If the Rega is much quieter you may be mistaking that for a weaker sound, but I believe the Nd3 claims 5-6mV output nominal, which shouldn’t be quieter.

Don’t be fobbed off with ‘running in’ either. It should sound great as long as you have the correct tracking pressure and a warm room. (A cartridge brought in from a cold car luggage area, for example, won’t sound at its best).

PS. You definitely plugged the new turntable into the phono inputs?

 

[Al ears]

How close is the volume between the two? If the Rega is much quieter you may be mistaking that for a weaker sound, but I believe the Nd3 claims 5-6mV output nominal, which shouldn’t be quieter.

Don’t be fobbed off with ‘running in’ either. It should sound great as long as you have the correct tracking pressure and a warm room. (A cartridge brought in from a cold car luggage area, for example, won’t sound at its best).

PS. You definitely plugged the new turntable into the phono inputs?

Correct. Running in is usually a fob off when it comes to cartridges, they aren't going to improve with time.
Yes there are elastomers involved but if they don't sound right from the outset........

 

[Kloëtjüpke]

How close is the volume between the two? If the Rega is much quieter you may be mistaking that for a weaker sound, but I believe the Nd3 claims 5-6mV output nominal, which shouldn’t be quieter.

Don’t be fobbed off with ‘running in’ either. It should sound great as long as you have the correct tracking pressure and a warm room. (A cartridge brought in from a cold car luggage area, for example, won’t sound at its best).

PS. You definitely plugged the new turntable into the phono inputs?

it's not so much that everything sounds softer, except for the vocals that sound more subdued than the rest of the music. I miss the details in the music. I had hoped to hear much more expression and detail, and that's what I miss now. I was actually quite happy with my old Dual 505-2, but because of all the rave reviews about how great Rega is, I gave in and bought one. I hope I didn't make the wrong choice.

 

[nopiano]

it's not so much that everything sounds softer, except for the vocals that sound more subdued than the rest of the music. I miss the details in the music. I had hoped to hear much more expression and detail, and that's what I miss now. I was actually quite happy with my old Dual 505-2, but because of all the rave reviews about how great Rega is, I gave in and bought one. I hope I didn't make the wrong choice.

I’m puzzled then, as I’d typically expect a new cartridge to sound as clean as a whistle. It’s years since I heard the 505, though I owned a CS601 for decades, but it had a certain energy which I’d expect from a Rega too.

What tracking weight is it at? If maxed out, try a 0.2 gram or so reduction.

 

[Kloëtjüpke]

the given tracking weight is 1.75, and maybe worth trying to experiment with this. I'll try it in the coming days.

 

[nopiano]

the given tracking weight is 1.75, and maybe worth trying to experiment with this. I'll try it in the coming days.

Ah, yes, I see that unusually Rega state a specific 1.75g rather than a range. A shade lighter might yield more ‘life’ but see what your dealer suggests too.

 

[vinyljim90]

Your P2 and ND3 should sound much better, at least not worse. The only thing that could be making it sound iffy is the tracking weight. Is the cartridge straight? And do left and right channels sound balanced? One not quieter than the other.

Check the cartridge is plugged in correctly and there aren't any loose wires. If no luck I'd send this back if you are getting a worse sound.

 

[Rui]

I recently acquired a Rega P2 with Nd3 cartridge. Previously I had an old Dual cs-505-2 with Ortofon OM10 cartridge.
After installing the Rega I have to say that the sound is rather disappointing compared to the Dual. Could it be due to the running-in time or is the Rega simply a lower quality record player? The vocals in particular are noticeably soft and there is little depth in the sound overall. I play this record player in combination with a Rotel A14 MKII amplifier and B&W 606 speakers.
The Rotel has a built-in phono pre-amp. I am now wondering whether I should purchase an external phono pre-amp to take the sound to a higher level. What do you think about this, would this help? And then of course the question which one, and without spending too much money? I would like your advice.

i would try first to restore the dual , with this you´ll never have a sound close to the old turntable, it was a well known model and for good reasons,

i can not add anything, as in my opinion not only from Rega but other brands who release turntables with this quality shouldn´t cost more than 50€ ,

this taking in consideration that work had to be done and employers paid,

the other was a good turntable and if working in bad condition ,it could be restored and quality it would be prime, if you could find the ortofon made original cartridge saying dual by the side of the cartridge body would sound great,

theOM 10 is like ...really bad compared to the clean and deep sound of the original one, there are some resemblances but nothing in common ,

the sound coming from the cartridge ND3 is simply bad in quality of sound and a common problem to most of the mm cartridges of the new era is a very low sound,

and your amplifier and speakers should have a great sound depending on the room you have them, so...i can´t say anything more,

either than advertising it and buy again a old turntable in second hand,

saw a complete SL-3300 from technics ,on ebay with it´s regular cartridge and compared to today cartridges, superb sound and really loud,

the needle normally if around 100€ might be good the ones sold a litle more than 30€ are bad i have 3 that i have to send them to the trash,

as i have this turntable bought in 1977 and still sounds amazing, compared to new ones bellow 3.000€ than a good cartridge and pre-amplifier that wouldn´t diminish the cartridge sound.

To end there is the Grado prestige II Gold sold now by a cheaper price and it sounds really good but in need of a pre-amplifier , as it is not a old model, this if you want to save your rega turntable, i have a P10 and it´s nice