Rega Elicit mk5 4ohm: overheating is real 😟

[plastic penguin]

I'm surprised a 100+ watt amp would struggle with those speakers. But for years Rega have had issues with their amps and turntables, one very good reason why I've never owned a Rega. Spending 2k amp a customer should expect better.

 

[nopiano]

It's worrisome to say the least that they say 40°C is the thermal cutout in their own manual. That is the ambient temperature in much of Southern Europe at this time of the year.

I think you missed the bit about “…above ambient temperature “, so in a 40C setting it might reach 80C, though I doubt many folk tolerate forty Celsius indoors. But for a typical British home it might equate to 64C, which is getting a bit too warm. I say that as the owner of a class A amp that will happily drive 4 ohm speakers all day long, but it is more thrice the price and size of the Rega.

I’ve read elsewhere about the smaller Rega IO also having thermal issues, as a lot of componentry is crammed into a small space.

 

[Revolutions]

Overheated twice today with all the windows open in the flat.

The speakers are going up for sale imminently 😢

 

[gasolin]

Don't see any ventilation holes

Do you use the standard feet ?

Before you sell your speakers try a bigger power amp with ventilation holes

Doesn't have to be expensive since it's just to test if a bigger power amp with ventilation holes can do it for you

Behringer A800 holes no fan

Crown XLi 800 has both

Since you have some pretty expensive stuff, one of those 2 amps won't brake the bank

 

[DougK1]

Overheated twice today with all the windows open in the flat.

The speakers are going up for sale imminently 😢

Bummer, you tried your best Rev.

As a side note I've personally had a thermal shutdown myself over the last two days, I refused to do any work, too hot for me

 

[DougK1]

Both 😃

C7's are supposed to be nice too, though you might be surprised by the P3's for such a small cabinet.

 

[nopiano]

Bummer, you tried your best Rev.

As a side note I've personally had a thermal shutdown myself over the last two days, I refused to do any work, too hot for me

I’ve been on the Costa Brava for a few days, mainly to see the Barcelona Grand Prix, and today it’s cooler here than the town in which I grew up in Surrey. The irony! 😅

 

[twinkletoes]

Overheated twice today with all the windows open in the flat.

The speakers are going up for sale imminently 😢

I’d put the amp up for sale not the speakers. The speakers arnt the problem

 

[Revolutions]

I’d put the amp up for sale not the speakers. The speakers arnt the problem

It’s a good point. I guess after choosing the Rega over Naim & Roksan amps, it’ll feel weird swapping them over. The amp is a far easier swap, and these speakers are so niche I can’t imagine they’ll sell quickly.

I like that I have options, even though I’d rather not be looking at such drastic changes when it sounds so great.

Don't see any ventilation holes

Do you use the standard feet ?

Before you sell your speakers try a bigger power amp with ventilation holes

Doesn't have to be expensive since it's just to test if a bigger power amp with ventilation holes can do it for you

Behringer A800 holes no fan

Crown XLi 800 has both

Since you have some pretty expensive stuff, one of those 2 amps won't brake the bank

I’ll look into those options, thanks.

 

[Revolutions]

Bummer, you tried your best Rev.

As a side note I've personally had a thermal shutdown myself over the last two days, I refused to do any work, too hot for me

🤣🤣🤣 this has cheered me up no end. Thank you Doug 😊

 

[spl84]

I’d put the amp up for sale not the speakers. The speakers arnt the problem

I agree. Those are some nice speakers. I thought about getting those Elacs before I got a closeout special on some Focals. IIRC they're German made. Hard to go wrong there!

 

[DougK1]

I must have been asleep as I didn't realise how expensive your speakers are. If they work well in your room then I'd stick with them and get a better amp instead of changing the speakers. The Harbeth audition will answer this question for you.

I've found that price-matching components works really well, however, cheaper speakers can sound great on the end of a more expensive amp. If the speakers gel with the room settle for them as it could take forever to find a replacement.

 

[Stuart83]

Overheated twice today with all the windows open in the flat.

The speakers are going up for sale imminently 😢

It wouldn't be the speakers I'd sell revolutions.
That amp seriously limits your options.

 

[abacus]

If you do change the amp, make sure the replacement is happy to drive 4ohm speakers at high levels (Most amps in the price bracket of your Rega aren't), and this will entail increasing your budget quite a bit.

Bill

 

[twinkletoes]

It’s a good point. I guess after choosing the Rega over Naim & Roksan amps, it’ll feel weird swapping them over. The amp is a far easier swap, and these speakers are so niche I can’t imagine they’ll sell quickly.

I like that I have options, even though I’d rather not be looking at such drastic changes when it sounds so great.


I’ll look into those options, thanks.

Id start with affordable power from musical fidelity and is normally stocked by most, see if that gets there motor running! many of there designs are able to drive 2ohm loads for prolonged periods.

Ring ahead before audition of the harbeth and ask to hear some powerful amps as well. Everyone has Yamaha, normally rotel.

Don’t feel silly though, I’m basically doing the same thing with my photography business, bought what I thought were good cameras but it clear they don’t gel with the way I like to work.

speaker loose a lot on the second hand market amps on the other hand not so much and easier to shift.
I’d get the amp checked before selling though just in case there’s a problem.

 

[Gray]

I can understand people telling you ditch the amp Revo (and I say that as someone that once worked on final test in Rega's amp department).

It's also a logical assumption that you'll need to up your amp budget accordingly.
But, think about the Fosi V3, (which I believe you've tried).
That would have no trouble driving any speakers would it?...... for around £100 🤔
Not saying that's your answer (as I think you found that wanting) - but any alternative need not necessarily be more expensive.

...Enter the (supposedly superior) V3 Monoblocks with a suitable preamp......

 

[Revolutions]

Appreciate the advice everyone! Amp feels like the easy/sensible swap, especially as it’s the weakest point in my setup anyways.

Funnily enough I woke up this morning thinking I need to do some proper research. I’ve booked in a demo of Hegel H190 & Naim Supernait 3 at a place that stocks Elac speakers.

I’ve already got the Harbeth demo coming up where I’ll take my Rega, and the salesman wanted me check out the Pass Labs amps as a route to upgrade anyways.

any alternative need not necessarily be more expensive.

...Enter the (supposedly superior) V3 Monoblocks with a suitable preamp......

I love the idea of this. I only need a 2 line input preamp for the WiiM & phono preamp. I do sort of feel I’ll miss having a big box though.

 

[Stuart83]

If you do change the amp, make sure the replacement is happy to drive 4ohm speakers at high levels (Most amps in the price bracket of your Rega aren't), and this will entail increasing your budget quite a bit.

Bill

Not to be too presumptuous but if you do decide to change the amp I know of a few, but the ones I've actually heard relatively recently and liked (fwiw) capable of 4ohm loads are the advance paris a10 which are the same price as the Rega, the Arcam A5 and Roskan k3 of which I own (cheaper than the rega) and radia a25 a tad more.

Home demoes with your existing speakers would be the obvious choice obviously avoiding lugging your speakers around.

Richer sounds offer such service and stock many other alternatives but not the advance paris.
I had to go along to "hifi sounds" for the genuine joy of hearing such a good amp imo.
I'm not sure if your near their branch in Stockton, a very knowledgeable family based bricks and mortar store.

I however preferred and picked an unpopular choice after a few bugs detracted from a delightfully punchy and lively sounding amp/one box solution and preferred the eisa award winning Arcam sa30 post the solved firmware hiccups people pointed out thus picking up the resulting bargain and "the amp it always should of been"

It's hooked up a Marantz CD 60, ifi zen air, system deck iix, djay decks, wharfdale SW 150 sub woofer, media arc to Samsung TV and now fyne audio f502 speakers which it has never missed a beat pardon pun.

It's previously had QA's that dip to 4ohms on occasion hooked up at loud volumes for hours whilst mixing and listening to music (I live in a detached bungalow) without any noticeable heat or problems.

 

[twinkletoes]

Appreciate the advice everyone! Amp feels like the easy/sensible swap, especially as it’s the weakest point in my setup anyways.

Funnily enough I woke up this morning thinking I need to do some proper research. I’ve booked in a demo of Hegel H190 & Naim Supernait 3 at a place that stocks Elac speakers.

I’ve already got the Harbeth demo coming up where I’ll take my Rega, and the salesman wanted me check out the Pass Labs amps as a route to upgrade anyways.



I love the idea of this. I only need a 2 line input preamp for the WiiM & phono preamp. I do sort of feel I’ll miss having a big box though.

Pass labs is a good shout expensive over here though. Let all know how it gets on

 

[davidf]

Problem with sticking with the amp is that you'll be mostly limited to budget speakers, but even entry level ranges are starting to creep down towards 4ohms nowadays - they all used to be nice and easy 8ohm loads.

 

[SohoAudiophile]

Problem with sticking with the amp is that you'll be mostly limited to budget speakers, but even entry level ranges are starting to creep down towards 4ohms nowadays - they all used to be nice and easy 8ohm loads.

Why is that?

I've been wondering about this lately. What is the trade-off in resistance in speakers? Is higher equipment likely to have more resistance? And if speaker impedence is actually very variable dependng on the frequency being played, how come they are marketed at having 4/6 or 8 ohms impedence?

Also on sensitivity - same question. Do very sensitive speakers have lighter cones and voice coils etc? Or is it the size of the magnet?

 

[davidf]

Why is that?

I've been wondering about this lately. What is the trade-off in resistance in speakers? Is higher equipment likely to have more resistance? And if speaker impedence is actually very variable dependng on the frequency being played, how come they are marketed at having 4/6 or 8 ohms impedence?

Also on sensitivity - same question. Do very sensitive speakers have lighter cones and voice coils etc? Or is it the size of the magnet?

The crossover isn't just used to separate the frequency range into base and treble. It is also used to iron out any deficiencies or make adjustments to how the speakers sound. The impedance can also be "normalised" in the crossover too.

8ohm impedance speakers are a nice easy load for any amplifier. But most drive units are 4ohms impedance, so the crossover is designed to present an 8ohm load to the amplifier, but to do that means more components on the crossover, which generally degrades quality - so you're sacrificing quality in order for the speaker to be friendly to the budget amps they're likely to be partnered with. This is why better quality speakers generally have a lower impedance, because less is done in the crossover to counteract their natural 4ohm characteristics, which retains their inherent sound quality. I was quite surprised to see a sub £1000 floorstander from a well known manufacturer recently that are 6ohms, but dip to 3! Most people are going to partner those with a £500/600 amp, and they're not going to handle 3ohms - you'd need spend a good £2k or more to get something stable at that impedance.

The sensitivity of the speaker will depend on many things, including the amount of drivers or surface area of the drivers. Speakers with more drivers or larger single drivers are shifting more air, so need less power to match small speakers. A sealed or ported cabinet will affect efficiency too, with ported cabinets being more efficient, but they have their trade offs. Horn loaded speakers are usually quite efficient, but for many have a sort of "shouty" quality, as they focus higher frequencies quite strongly towards the listener.

Designing a loudspeaker is a massive balancing act of many things - change one thing it affect another, and correcting that might effect sound quality or efficiency etc etc.

This is why system building is still an artform in many ways, but people seem to just throw things together willy nilly nowadays (I guess with the nature of the internet and easy online buying), which I feel is why there's so much second hand stuff on the market. They order something without auditioning or seeking the right advice, try it out and decide they don't like it. They probably would like it in a well matched system, but it's just not able to shine in theirs because it's not playing ball with something else - much like the Rega and Elacs in your case. I can see that in the specs, but having experience with the Elacs, I guessed straight away what it might be.

 

[SohoAudiophile]

The crossover isn't just used to separate the frequency range into base and treble. It is also used to iron out any deficiencies or make adjustments to how the speakers sound. The impedance can also be "normalised" in the crossover too.

8ohm impedance speakers are a nice easy load for any amplifier. But most drive units are 4ohms impedance, so the crossover is designed to present an 8ohm load to the amplifier, but to do that means more components on the crossover, which generally degrades quality - so you're sacrificing quality in order for the speaker to be friendly to the budget amps they're likely to be partnered with. This is why better quality speakers generally have a lower impedance, because less is done in the crossover to counteract their natural 4ohm characteristics, which retains their inherent sound quality. I was quite surprised to see a sub £1000 floorstander from a well known manufacturer recently that are 6ohms, but dip to 3! Most people are going to partner those with a £500/600 amp, and they're not going to handle 3ohms - you'd need spend a good £2k or more to get something stable at that impedance.

The sensitivity of the speaker will depend on many things, including the amount of drivers or surface area of the drivers. Speakers with more drivers or larger single drivers are shifting more air, so need less power to match small speakers. A sealed or ported cabinet will affect efficiency too, with ported cabinets being more efficient, but they have their trade offs. Horn loaded speakers are usually quite efficient, but for many have a sort of "shouty" quality, as they focus higher frequencies quite strongly towards the listener.

Designing a loudspeaker is a massive balancing act of many things - change one thing it affect another, and correcting that might effect sound quality or efficiency etc etc.

This is why system building is still an artform in many ways, but people seem to just throw things together willy nilly nowadays (I guess with the nature of the internet and easy online buying), which I feel is why there's so much second hand stuff on the market. They order something without auditioning or seeking the right advice, try it out and decide they don't like it. They probably would like it in a well matched system, but it's just not able to shine in theirs because it's not playing ball with something else - much like the Rega and Elacs in your case. I can see that in the specs, but having experience with the Elacs, I guessed straight away what it might be.

Thank you for this fantastic explanation! It's counter-intuitive that a speaker with lots of drivers would be more sensitive and therefore louder even though there's extra work to do, but it does make sense when I think about it.

 

[Gray]

.....I was quite surprised to see a sub £1000 floorstander from a well known manufacturer recently that are 6ohms, but dip to 3! Most people are going to partner those with a £500/600 amp, and they're not going to handle 3ohms - you'd need spend a good £2k or more to get something stable at that impedance.

Have you tried (for example) the Fosi V3 David?
20 times less expensive than your £2k figure.
Too cheap to be any good?
A lower class of D?
I might have said so.....before I tried one - and I'm not alone.
(True, the measurers claim some speaker dependency at HF - but they also reckon that's been corrected by the feedback implementation in the new Monoblocks 🤔)

 

[DougK1]

Have you tried (for example) the Fosi V3 David?
20 times less expensive than your £2k figure.
Too cheap to be any good?
A lower class of D?
I might have said so.....before I tried one - and I'm not alone.
(True, the measurers claim some speaker dependency at HF - but they also reckon that's been corrected by the feedback implementation in the new Monoblocks 🤔)

I'm really not sure about this chi-fi yet Gray. When I first got the Topping headphone amp I could see the stand-by LED easily from my chair in broad daylight. I was looking at it the other night in the dark and thought the amp was off, I had to get within 6" to see that it was actually still on! Think the LED is on its last legs. It's only an LED but it's not even two years old yet. I'm hoping this isn't a sign of things to come cos this amp has lots of LEDs.