Rega Elicit mk5 4ohm: overheating is real 😟

[Al ears]

Going to the Elicit mk5 website, Rega seem to deem it most suitable for 6-8ohm rated speakers. Digging deeper they provide a 4ohm rating, but it seems to me 6-8ohm rated speakers are its ideal.

If it cannot drive speakers that occasionally drop below 4 ohm it's not worth buying.

 

[davidf]

A manufacturer providing a 4ohm rating is no guarantee an amplifier can drive a 4ohm load well for any length of time in the real world. Rega amps like a nice easy load, which is ideal for their own speakers.

I find it funny I was once pulled up by someone at Rega for suggesting that a Brio wasn't man enough for a pair of KEF LS50s. I had to apologise at the time as I worked for someone else, but now I can say what I like. A Brio isn't man enough for LS50s, and wouldn't be a combination I would recommend - my morals wouldn't allow me to. An Elicit should be more capable with such speakers, and I would expect it to be fine with 4ohm speakers, although I notice its power doesn't double into 4ohms.

I've always said that amplifier/speaker combinations should be auditioned together, not purchased separately and hope for the best, or presume they'll work fine. It's just as important as choosing a speaker that works well with the room they'll be placed in.

 

[DougK1]

I borrowed a pair of Elacs to try at home to assess, which I initially had on a Class D amplifier - underwhelming. The speakers were not impressing, and I was struggling to justify their worth over anything else available at half the price. Changed the amp for a Hegel, boom! Honestly, the difference was ridiculous. H190 will drive them all day long, and will be stable even lower than 4ohms, and won't be cutting out. Might get away with a H120, which had less power than an Elicit, but it'll be stable at 4ohms.

Just out of interest would you care to mention which Class D amp you were using?

 

[gasolin]

162 watt in 8 ohm is enough for 88db speakers

As i see it there s no visible ventilation holes, at the bottom i don't know

 

[Al ears]

A manufacturer providing a 4ohm rating is no guarantee an amplifier can drive a 4ohm load well for any length of time in the real world. Rega amps like a nice easy load, which is ideal for their own speakers.

I find it funny I was once pulled up by someone at Rega for suggesting that a Brio wasn't man enough for a pair of KEF LS50s. I had to apologise at the time as I worked for someone else, but now I can say what I like. A Brio isn't man enough for LS50s, and wouldn't be a combination I would recommend - my morals wouldn't allow me to. An Elicit should be more capable with such speakers, and I would expect it to be fine with 4ohm speakers, although I notice its power doesn't double into 4ohms.

I've always said that amplifier/speaker combinations should be auditioned together, not purchased separately and hope for the best, or presume they'll work fine. It's just as important as choosing a speaker that works well with the room they'll be placed in.

If it did double power into 4 ohm load I for one would be very surprised...

 

[manicm]

If it cannot drive speakers that occasionally drop below 4 ohm it's not worth buying.

The Rega Elicit Mk5 is a 2000 quid amp, these Elacs are about 4500 quid new. So in your esteemed opinion the Rega is not worth buying? They highlight it as a feature upfront 'powerful 105 W per channel into 8 Ω loads (127 W into 6 Ω)'. Rega is also upfront in the manual and website that the amp will not endure 4ohm rated speakers for prolonged periods.

It's clear that the Rega is not a powerhouse like say a Hegel would be. But they're upfront about it.

A Hegel H95 is 1500 quid, with 60w/8ohm.
Hegel H120 as 2225 quid with 75w/8ohm.

The Hegel 190v that davidf suggests is 3250 quid. And all Hegel integrateds come with ethernet streaming onboard.

It's all a matter of price and matching really. And I remind you again - this Elac is a 4OHM RATED speaker, that dips to 3.6OHM, so play some EDM and it's not going to take a lot to go down there.

Then there are some speakers that are extremely power hungry regardless of price - I refer you to the $1500 Emotiva Airmotiv XT2. These need Emotiva's own amps if you're going to maintain cost/value/matching ratio. And Emotiva themselves acknowledged this. Watch Andrew Robinson's review of this speaker.

Additionally, Elac and others should publish honest specs like Monitor Audio do - some of their Silver series amps officially require at least 60w/8ohm amps.

To recommend a 40w minimum for this speaker is plainly dishonest.

 

[davidf]

Just out of interest would you care to mention which Class D amp you were using?

A good quality 60 watter, discontinued now. I doubt any 60wpc Class D amp would have worked well to be honest. It'd be unfair to mention it as it was a good amp.

 

[Al ears]

The Rega Elicit Mk5 is a 2000 quid amp, these Elacs are about 4500 quid new. So in your esteemed opinion the Rega is not worth buying? They highlight it as a feature upfront 'powerful 105 W per channel into 8 Ω loads (127 W into 6 Ω)'. Rega is also upfront in the manual and website that the amp will not endure 4ohm rated speakers for prolonged periods.

It's clear that the Rega is not a powerhouse like say a Hegel would be. But they're upfront about it.

A Hegel H95 is 1500 quid, with 60w/8ohm.
Hegel H120 as 2225 quid with 75w/8ohm.

The Hegel 190v that davidf suggests is 3250 quid. And all Hegel integrateds come with ethernet streaming onboard.

It's all a matter of price and matching really. And I remind you again - this Elac is a 4OHM RATED speaker, that dips to 3.6OHM, so play some EDM and it's not going to take a lot to go down there.

Then there are some speakers that are extremely power hungry regardless of price - I refer you to the $1500 Emotiva Airmotiv XT2. These need Emotiva's own amps if you're going to maintain cost/value/matching ratio. And Emotiva themselves acknowledged this. Watch Andrew Robinson's review of this speaker.

Additionally, Elac and others should publish honest specs like Monitor Audio do - some of their Silver series amps officially require at least 60w/8ohm amps.

To recommend a 40w minimum for this speaker is plainly dishonest.

Who mentioned 40 w minimum?

 

[manicm]

The Hegel 190v that davidf suggests is 3250 quid. And all Hegel integrateds come with ethernet streaming onboard.

It's all a matter of price and match

Who mentioned 40 w minimum?

On the Elac website for this speaker. Does an amp exist even on Mars rated at 40w/4ohms??

 

[manicm]

162 watt in 8 ohm is enough for 88db speakers

As i see it there s no visible ventilation holes, at the bottom i don't know

When the speaker is rated at minimum of 4 ohms, then that 88db figure is rather meaningless. But I also noticed the lack of ventilation at the top and sided of the Rega. Maybe not the wisest decision.

 

[Revolutions]

Thanks everyone for the insights & exploration, I’ve learnt loads from this thread.

I hadn’t considered the possibility that an amp that gives a rating might actually struggle to deliver. (I’ve also tangentially learnt a lesson about demoing the smaller version of the speaker & buying the bigger one unheard.)

Gonna call a rega repair place today & chat with them to get their thoughts - as nopiano said, not worth risking damage to the speakers.

Pending that conversation, the long-term solution appears to be more powerful amp or less power-hungry speakers.

 

[SohoAudiophile]

This thread is a bit of a disappointing read as I had my sights on Rega for my upgrade path.

Did you manage to get to the bottom of it? What did the Rega dealer say?

 

[Din5]

From what I can see, the OP is probably operating the amp at the extremes of its capability ie , using 4 ohm speakers and placing the amp at floor level under a lowish cabinet. I would suggest the first step is to try the amp on a shelf or table as Rega mention and run it with 8 ohm speakers, if it still cuts out then it should be returned to Rega for adjustment, because the amp should be able to run 8 ohm speakers in a well ventelated space without cutting out.
If it runs fine with 8 ohm speakers then clearly the issue is with those 4 ohm speakers. The OP may eventually need to consider options for changing either the amp or the speakers to an 8 ohm model.

 

[Gray]

From what I can see, the OP is probably operating the amp at the extremes of its capability ie , using 4 ohm speakers and placing the amp at floor level under a lowish cabinet. I would suggest the first step is to try the amp on a shelf or table as Rega mention and run it with 8 ohm speakers, if it still cuts out then it should be returned to Rega for adjustment, because the amp should be able to run 8 ohm speakers in a well ventelated space without cutting out.
If it runs fine with 8 ohm speakers then clearly the issue is with those 4 ohm speakers. The OP may eventually need to consider options for changing either the amp or the speakers to an 8 ohm model.

I think the OP reported that he was trying the amp in the position shown in post #1 - after it had tripped out elsewhere.

He said it seemed to be a cooler location down there and I would expect that.

Whatever else is causing the issue, at least in that location, I wouldn't say lack of ventilation would be a problem.

With no problems, none of my amps have ever really had much more ventilation than my current one:

 

[Stuart83]

Any further forward "revolutions" ?

I've had time for a quick look around for you.
Despite not encountering this problem with many amplifiers and speaker combinations over the yrs myself, even now running 6ohm speakers that dip to 4ohms at loud levels over long periods in my second hifi (causing my initial suspicion of there being a fault) it indeed does exist with your Rega.

I've found there is a problem with even 6ohm loads and obviously lower causing a thermal overload/shut off.

I found this within the online manual

SPECIFICATIONS
AMPLIFIER OUTPUT
Power Amplifier Output (at rated 230/115V supply voltage) 105W per channel into 8Ω
127W per channel into 6Ω
162W per channel into 4Ω

"Note: Continued high level use into loads of 6Ω or less may cause
the case to exceed 40°C above ambient temperature and activate
the thermal shut down"

This should clear things up for you.
Unfortunately it means you will have to consider other speakers/amp.

I would look at putting a small internal fan in if I really liked the sound of the speakers and amp together but it's maybe a bit drastic to some.

 

[manicm]

Any further forward "revolutions" ?

I've had time for a quick look around for you.
Despite not encountering this problem with many amplifiers and speaker combinations over the yrs myself, even now running 6ohm speakers that dip to 4ohms at loud levels over long periods in my second hifi (causing my initial suspicion of there being a fault) it indeed does exist with your Rega.

I've found there is a problem with even 6ohm loads and obviously lower causing a thermal overload/shut off.

I found this within the online manual

SPECIFICATIONS
AMPLIFIER OUTPUT
Power Amplifier Output (at rated 230/115V supply voltage) 105W per channel into 8Ω
127W per channel into 6Ω
162W per channel into 4Ω

"Note: Continued high level use into loads of 6Ω or less may cause
the case to exceed 40°C above ambient temperature and activate
the thermal shut down"

This should clear things up for you.
Unfortunately it means you will have to consider other speakers/amp.

I would look at putting a small internal fan in if I really liked the sound of the speakers and amp together but it's maybe a bit drastic to some.

His Elac speaker is a NOMINAL 4ohm! I'm repeating myself here. So it would not be an easy load for any amp not primarily designed to handle 4 ohm loads. It dips to 3.6 ohmsm

 

[SohoAudiophile]

the case to exceed 40°C above ambient temperature and activate

The WHF review for the amp states: :"The Elicit runs fairly warm in use, so make sure it has enough ventilation around it to avoid overheating issues."

I've read elsewhere that this amp lacks bluetooth because it was made during the lockdown chip shortage - perhaps there were smiilar problems in the power section leading to this problematic amplifier.

It's worrisome to say the least that they say 40°C is the thermal cutout in their own manual. That is the ambient temperature in much of Southern Europe at this time of the year.

 

[Revolutions]

Any further forward "revolutions" ?

I've had time for a quick look around for you.
Despite not encountering this problem with many amplifiers and speaker combinations over the yrs myself, even now running 6ohm speakers that dip to 4ohms at loud levels over long periods in my second hifi (causing my initial suspicion of there being a fault) it indeed does exist with your Rega.

I've found there is a problem with even 6ohm loads and obviously lower causing a thermal overload/shut off.

I found this within the online manual

SPECIFICATIONS
AMPLIFIER OUTPUT
Power Amplifier Output (at rated 230/115V supply voltage) 105W per channel into 8Ω
127W per channel into 6Ω
162W per channel into 4Ω

"Note: Continued high level use into loads of 6Ω or less may cause
the case to exceed 40°C above ambient temperature and activate
the thermal shut down"

This should clear things up for you.
Unfortunately it means you will have to consider other speakers/amp.

I would look at putting a small internal fan in if I really liked the sound of the speakers and amp together but it's maybe a bit drastic to some.

Thank you so much for digging that up- really helpful information. That all but confirms @manicm’s suspicions that this amp really isn’t designed for 4ohmn operation. Pretty clearly answers the question.

No other updates except been a little bit cooler the last few days & not had any shutdowns. I was promised a call back from a shop in town about booking in a service, but yet to hear from them. The guy on the phone sounded pretty dismissive that 4ohm speakers would be the problem, ending by kinda insinuating that of course it’s going to overheat if I’m giving it the Renault 5 turbo treatment.

The simple answer is smaller speakers. They are physically too big for the space, and, as per @DougK1’s observation, my actual listening area is pretty small. I don’t need floorstanders, let alone mid-sized ones.

 

[Al ears]

Thank you so much for digging that up- really helpful information. That all but confirms @manicm’s suspicions that this amp really isn’t designed for 4ohmn operation. Pretty clearly answers the question.

No other updates except been a little bit cooler the last few days & not had any shutdowns. I was promised a call back from a shop in town about booking in a service, but yet to hear from them. The guy on the phone sounded pretty dismissive that 4ohm speakers would be the problem, ending by kinda insinuating that of course it’s going to overheat if I’m giving it the Renault 5 turbo treatment.

The simple answer is smaller speakers. They are physically too big for the space, and, as per @DougK1’s observation, my actual listening area is pretty small. I don’t need floorstanders, let alone mid-sized ones.

The simple answer has little to do with speaker size but speaker efficiency.

 

[DougK1]

Thank you so much for digging that up- really helpful information. That all but confirms @manicm’s suspicions that this amp really isn’t designed for 4ohmn operation. Pretty clearly answers the question.

No other updates except been a little bit cooler the last few days & not had any shutdowns. I was promised a call back from a shop in town about booking in a service, but yet to hear from them. The guy on the phone sounded pretty dismissive that 4ohm speakers would be the problem, ending by kinda insinuating that of course it’s going to overheat if I’m giving it the Renault 5 turbo treatment.

The simple answer is smaller speakers. They are physically too big for the space, and, as per @DougK1’s observation, my actual listening area is pretty small. I don’t need floorstanders, let alone mid-sized ones.

As you seem to like Harbeth I would recommend the P3ESR but I think you might miss the visceral bass only larger speakers can give... though my pair give me all the bass I need

 

[Revolutions]

The simple answer has little to do with speaker size but speaker efficiency.

Good point. Crap, keeping the amp means deliberately limiting my options. Oh well. I’ll start with some listening demos before doing too much thinking.

As you seem to like Harbeth I would recommend the P3ESR but I think you might miss the visceral bass only larger speakers can give... though my pair give me all the bass I need

I’ve got a demo booked in for a couple of weeks 🤓

 

[DougK1]

I’ve got a demo booked in for a couple of weeks 🤓

P3's or HL5's?

 

[Revolutions]

P3's or HL5's?

Both 😃

 

[DougK1]

Both 😃

way to go!

 

[Stuart83]

His Elac speaker is a NOMINAL 4ohm! I'm repeating myself here. So it would not be an easy load for any amp not primarily designed to handle 4 ohm loads. It dips to 3.6 ohmsm

That granted it was my intention to confirm this info using information provided by Rega (themselves) as then it becomes "definitive"

Although I too understand ohms law regarding speakers, I thought hearing it from rega (indeed the horses mouth) would give "revaloutions" the extra confidence to avoid sending/taking it back to the dealer etc possibly costing him unnecessary both time and money.

Otherwise it's just a presumption however kind.