Quadraphonic Recordings?

Benedict_Arnold

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I was reading an article on the Daily Torygraph website yesterday about the forthcoming Pink Floyd 50th (yes, 50th) anniversary exhibition at the V&A. Would be nice to go, were I still in the UK, or on the off chance I get a business trip back to the UK while it's still on.

It brought back memory of the much talked about, never actually heard (by most people, certainly by me) quadraphonic sound that tried but failed to catch on in the 70s.

I was wondering if any of the original quadraphonic releases (e.g. Pink Floyd, Hawkwind (?), etc. ) were available in some sort of format that could be played back over a modern surround system. I seem to recall Hawkwind still using some quadraphonic effects on the synths at their gigs in the early to mid 80s. Trippy, man, trippy!
 
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MajorFubar said:
I guess it depends. There were two competing incompatible encode/decode systems, and even though I still think it was a fad which would never have become mainstream, this was a perfect example of the industry assisting the suicide of one of its own technologies because they couldn’t agree on a universal standard. To decode the quad LPs I think you would need an amp with the decoder built in. Clever software could probably decode them digitally if any exists, but I’ve never searched for it and I don’t know if any such software exists. Then you would need to find quad LPs encoded with the same system the amp can decode.

I did once hear tales of quad open reel tapes of the most popular albums, which would of course work with any 4-channel amp or pair of amps so long as you could ( a ) source a quad tape recorder, and (b) actually find some quad tapes. I’ve seen many quad recorders but I’ve never seen quad tapes.

Most quadraphonic formats, and their were at least five, were designed to retrieve sound from an LP. Pretty sure some special cartridge was required and a suitable decoder. These are pretty much extinct so I'd stick to multi channel SACD ;-)
 
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MajorFubar

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I guess it depends. There were two competing incompatible encode/decode systems, and even though I still think it was a fad which would never have become mainstream, this was a perfect example of the industry assisting the suicide of one of its own technologies because they couldn’t agree on a universal standard. To decode the quad LPs I think you would need an amp with the decoder built in. Clever software could probably decode them digitally if any exists, but I’ve never searched for it and I don’t know if any such software exists. Then you would need to find quad LPs encoded with the same system the amp can decode.

I did once hear tales of quad open reel tapes of the most popular albums, which would of course work with any 4-channel amp or pair of amps so long as you could ( a ) source a quad tape recorder, and (b) actually find some quad tapes. I’ve seen many quad recorders but I’ve never seen quad tapes.
 
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spiny norman

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Benedict_Arnold said:
I was wondering if any of the original quadraphonic releases (e.g. Pink Floyd, Hawkwind (?), etc. ) were available in some sort of format that could be played back over a modern surround system.

The multichannel mix of Dark Side... wasn't the original quad version, but I believe there are some unofficial 'releases' of the Alan Parsons original floating around out there on the internet. It may even have been released by now, but I'm no Pink Floyd collector, so may have missed it. I certainly heard a copy a distant friend had at one point, played from DVD, I think.
 
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Benedict_Arnold

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I wasn't thinking of quadraphonic vinyl or 4-track 1/4 inch reel to reel or even 8-track cartridges (which were, I believe the three main competing formats that all killed each other off).
Rather I was thinking of SACD DVD or Blu-ray media formats that would re-create the quadraphonic effects via an AV surround sound setup.
 
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Benedict_Arnold said:
I wasn't thinking of quadraphonic vinyl or 4-track 1/4 inch reel to reel or even 8-track cartridges (which were, I believe the three main competing formats that all killed each other off). Rather I was thinking of SACD DVD or Blu-ray media formats that would re-create the quadraphonic effects via an AV surround sound setup.

Aha, in that case most multichannel SACD s are just that not Quad and blu-ray audio tends to be stereo only, at least the ones I own are.
 
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spiny norman

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Al ears said:
Aha, in that case most multichannel SACD s are just that not Quad and blu-ray audio tends to be stereo only, at least the ones I own are.

Though at a slight tangent there are some interesting early three-channel (L/C/R) stereo recordings out there on SACD.
 
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iMark

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Benedict_Arnold said:
I wasn't thinking of quadraphonic vinyl or 4-track 1/4 inch reel to reel or even 8-track cartridges (which were, I believe the three main competing formats that all killed each other off). Rather I was thinking of SACD DVD or Blu-ray media formats that would re-create the quadraphonic effects via an AV surround sound setup.

I remember that in the early seventies Philips tried to convince Dutch consumers to buy quadraphonic equipment. It never was succesful, partly because there was such a limited range of recordings and the fact that there were at least 3 competing and not compatible systems. I remember that I went to the audio show Firato in Amsterdam and there was an incredible quadrophonic setup by Philips, including their MFB, Motion Feedback speakers. It sounded great but hardly anyone bought a quadraphonic system. Selling stereo equipment with two messy speakers was already a problem for most living rooms. Four speakers was out of the question.

But Philips and Deutsche Grammophon did make quadraphonic recordings, especially classical ones. Many of these recordings ended up in the vaults but with the arrival of multichannel SACD, many recordings have been released in different series. Pentatone still make new recordings.

http://www.pentatonemusic.com/series/8

http://www.pentatonemusic.com/series/4

But possibly the most interesting series is this one http://www.pentatonemusic.com/series/3, the Remastered Quadro Recordings, originally made on 4-channel tape in the early 1970s.

We own a couple of the RQR SACDs but we only have a stereo setup so I can't judge the quadrophonic aspect of them. The stereo layer sounds excellent though.
 
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Benedict_Arnold said:
I wasn't thinking of quadraphonic vinyl or 4-track 1/4 inch reel to reel or even 8-track cartridges (which were, I believe the three main competing formats that all killed each other off). Rather I was thinking of SACD DVD or Blu-ray media formats that would re-create the quadraphonic effects via an AV surround sound setup.
Had never thought of that, but I guess the four channel masters might be lurking in some vaults somewhere! How they would translate to 5.1 or 7.1 I've no idea though.

And there I was trying to recall the LP formats: SQ, QS, and CD4 - this last one being the one with the carrier signal. I must still have the LPs somewhere!
 
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I bought into quadraphonic sound at the end of the era. about 1978. I have maintained it ever since. I used separate stereo amplifiers and the appropriate decoders and other quad gear. I later added a third amp so I could include modern SACD and DVD Audio, and now Blue Ray. All are good. Of the LP formats, CD-4 was the best, but a lot of the cartridges sold at the time couldn't track the high frequency difference signal. The result was nicknamed "sandpaper quad" Today, an Audio technical AT440MLb will track it just fine with a little extra weight, about a quarter gram more. SQ and QS had no subcarrier, and will play with any good stereo cart, including one made for CD-4. Quad died out but a lot of recorded material was produced. Probably one of the main reasons it died was the proliferation of fake quad gear, stereo gear with a Hafler circuit and a "quad" button and four speakers. But even the newer digital multichannel formats are a niche market. They are still hanging on because the sound id so goooood! Ever heard the quad version of Pink Floyd's Meddle? It is incredible! So is Atom Heart Mother. I love it.
 
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I bought into quadraphonic sound at the end of the era. about 1978. I have maintained it ever since. I used separate stereo amplifiers and the appropriate decoders and other quad gear. I later added a third amp so I could include modern SACD and DVD Audio, and now Blue Ray. All are good. Of the LP formats, CD-4 was the best, but a lot of the cartridges sold at the time couldn't track the high frequency difference signal. The result was nicknamed "sandpaper quad" Today, an Audio technical AT440MLb will track it just fine with a little extra weight, about a quarter gram more. SQ and QS had no subcarrier, and will play with any good stereo cart, including one made for CD-4. Quad died out but a lot of recorded material was produced. Probably one of the main reasons it died was the proliferation of fake quad gear, stereo gear with a Hafler circuit and a "quad" button and four speakers. But even the newer digital multichannel formats are a niche market. They are still hanging on because the sound id so goooood! Ever heard the quad version of Pink Floyd's Meddle? It is incredible! So is Atom Heart Mother. I love it.
Nice to see someone still experimenting with defunct formats.
Note that this thread is four years old and most of the posters are now longer members of the new forum.
 
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OK, I will see if there are any more up to date threads on this subject. However, my involvement in quad is not experimental. It's dedicated. I was just browsing through the rules and noticed the rule about not resurrecting old threads. I will try to adhere to that. Although I am curious as to why. Thanks,
The Quadfather
 
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No, I don't have any hand sanitizer. I went ahead and started a new thread. I'm actually quite expert on quad, so I can probably answer questions y'all may have.
It made me manually approve your thread. It's an antispam feature of the forum software but it's a bit wonky at the moment. It should notify us of the fact but it doesn't always work right. A fix is incoming ( eventually ) and I think you're good now but if you have any problems with your posts just PM one of the mods and we'll get it sorted out for you. :)
 
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Quadrophonic.4Ever

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I guess it depends. There were two competing incompatible encode/decode systems, and even though I still think it was a fad which would never have become mainstream, this was a perfect example of the industry assisting the suicide of one of its own technologies because they couldn’t agree on a universal standard. To decode the quad LPs I think you would need an amp with the decoder built in. Clever software could probably decode them digitally if any exists, but I’ve never searched for it and I don’t know if any such software exists. Then you would need to find quad LPs encoded with the same system the amp can decode.

I did once hear tales of quad open reel tapes of the most popular albums, which would of course work with any 4-channel amp or pair of amps so long as you could ( a ) source a quad tape recorder, and (b) actually find some quad tapes. I’ve seen many quad recorders but I’ve never seen quad tapes.
Hi, I know that I am NOT in the UK or even in the USA (or for that matter, in any country NORTH of the middle of this planet).
I arrived into this world (down under) as the third child of a fairly poor orchardist family, who's main worker (Dad) did almost all of his many farming ventures, alone, except for family members such as myself (when I grew up enough) to do all the menial mundane stuff, such as making packing boxes, in the ever so hot mud-brick walled & tin roofed packing shed where he'd set-up a stout wooden bench with just enough "strips of wood" to allow someone to build any size packing box, from a simple display tray to a large main crop 20kg box.

So as I was (as I said) the last arrival, I didn't ever get any of the so-called "pocket money" that everyone else around me got, which - even if I ever did get anything, it would have proved pointless as we lived some 15 miles away from the "nearest" town along a very dusty winding & hilly road, long before we got down onto the "flat" where for the next five miles, the dust was a little deeper, (more horse drawn steel rimed traffic see) before a final mile or two of tarseal.

When I was going to primary school, (later after we had shifted down onto the flats when Dad bought a Dairy Farm, selling cans of Cream to the Dunedin Markets), my Dad said they had only just tarsealed all the main roads, in & around our rural township, so at least some of the shops were a LITTLE cleaner than others, although, back then - every shop that Mum dragged me along to visit, had a display entrance at the main doorway, through which NO ONE could enter - to browse, so people just stood inside that one/two person entranceway - to give a LIST of materials they had written down themselves, in the hope that a particular seller had what they needed, and if some were not available there, people would ask who (of the next door businesses) would possibly be able to help, so I never wanted any pocket money - as I couldn't think of any LESS "of what I thought I wanted", without actually knowing if that was even remotely available, hence my aversion to creating lists.

Ok wandered off there as I had to go do some things, back now without a clue as to where my mind has gone?

Ok, so, it appears as if there were ONLY the two systems that I read about, of which I knew how to arrive at both "sets" of speakers, after discovering a very simply method, in 1965, which has stood the test of time, over & over gain throughout my 70 year lifespan, and which I had (until I purchased a PC and got the internet connected in 2006, just assumed (as one does) that the whole world knew how, yet in 2006 when I did get online, NO ONE (anywhere in the world) has the faintest of clues, as to how to decode "manually" even the simplest 3rd channel, let alone either of the two main 4 ch versions tat I know of, and even less, of the "directly attainable" NINE (analogue) discrete channels that I discovered back in 1965, so it comes as no surprise to me now, to learn that some in the Northern Hemisphere, are starting to revert BACK to the least useable system that of BLAND singular MONO.

Basically because many have zero idea what they are missing out on, and even less want more than a SINGLE speaker in any room, much less one requiring speaker cables, let alone inbuilt stereo amp power cables and such.

It hurts me to learn, that many so-called professionals, have NEVER heard surround sound, in any format, and thus are the "main" antagonists ( I mean discussion experts), to provoke others less able to discover this for themselves, that MONO anything is any better than a good stereo set-up, but see, many stereo manufacturers, have for way too long, pushed people to place BOTH stereo speakers, side by side, underneath whatever else they use, such as a radio receiver, maybe a tape & CD player, as well as a top mounted vinyl record player..

I crashed onto one such idiots (I men professional somethings) website today, where this Id- person, was spouting off at how much BETTER mono tracks were to stereo versions?

On a website I couldn't be bothered signing into, if that's the rubbish they print.
ie: (medium's website) /@larskjensen/the-return-to-mono-9468ae3e97ac

That idiot was blurbling on as to how people were starting to return to MONO..?
Oh holey crap no.!!!!
Not me anyways.

Now, as to HOW one finds either of the two QUAD (Quadrophonic) systems, that I know of, these are extremely easy (well they are for me as I don't care how many amps I blow, in search of a work-around.

Thus, for the original QUAD that I learnt of in the mid 1970's (bearing in mind that I had myself, in mid 1965 discovered NINE easily found Analogue ONLY complete full frequency channels, inside a vinyl and a tape cassette as well as inside our even older old (stereo) 78's and the professionally multi-track tape reel-to-reel tape recordings, they used to use in a top of the rock, announcers cabin, perched there for all to see and hear (such as us at the other end of the mile & 1/2 straight beyond the hills where the Dam was located, s sound travels long distances in cold winter air.

Anyways, the announcer's music PA speaker arrays were on top of the small one manned announcers hut, down at the Lower Manorburn's Outdoor Winter Ice Skating Dam's Middle main basin, being just one of the three main basins.

Every weekend without fail mid winter, busses from everywhere, (Dunedin & Invercargill mostly) arrived in droves, to allow the passengers to alight at the bottom of the steepest gradient there, to allow as many of the strongest, to lean into the bus, to help it slip and slide uphill on the frozen /frosty grounds most winter weekends, until at the top of that rise, everyone would clamber back on-board, to slip/slide down the other side (the frozen shady side) until their bus was parked alongside many others, as maybe a thousand people or more, came to skate in the wonderful outdoor skating dams, that were there every winter.

About the mid 1970's the winters got less and less cold, until the local ice skating /winter sports club, mooted the idea of moving it all into town,
The idea was itself frozen in time, until after the building of the Clyde Hydro Dam, saw two heavy duty (liquid) Concrete warming towers, decommissioned and put up for sale.
There a local ice skater learnt, that those two towers, were excellent if reverse cycled, into huge freezing units, which (of course) were more than suitable "each" to drive the freezing of an outdoor Olympic sized rink, thus words were discussed, and the sellers partially gifted them to allow the very well known Ice Skating Club, to purchase for a song, the two decommissioned heater/chillers.

I was a volunteer, back in 1991/ 1992 when the rink was being prepared for concreting, as many hundred meters of ALKATHENE™ pipes were laid, under the reinforced mesh, that was also laid, to give the rink strength, when way too many skaters and a Zamboni were used "together", on whatever ice they had formed.

Anyways, they TOSSED (literally) all of their older reels into the local rubbish dump at Galloway, where I lived for most of my lengthy life, so it was my "go-too" shop, where for a cough on old dust here and there, I could "buy" anything I found there, if I could drag it over a few fences and the railway line, to get it onto our farm, where I could then take down Dad's wee TEA Fergy and trailer, to haul all my goodies, back to toss into a "hope dad doesn't take it all back" Heap, for me to work through.
That dump (and ours) revealed a LOT of old radio and TV speakers for many years, until the wheelie bin regime arrived, which saw the local council "close forever" my parts stores.

But hey by then I was earning a sufficient income, to go buy speakers and such, but not much else, apart from a LOT of connection cables.

Over the years since 1965 I have though, sold a LOT of "on-the-job" created surround sound decoders, for both commercial and heavy industry users, as well as private individuals with enough ready cash, to buy into my (analogue) direct decoded multiple channel "surround sound" systems.

As I too, bought into the fad, afterwards, of buying quad LP's to discover shock horror, they were muddied and way worse than open decoding stock standard 2ch stereo vinyl & tapes (both reeled versions of 7" reels and compact cassette types), along with my wonderfully weird way of decoding on-air FM & TV audio broadcasts, plus in 1997, when "Vine Song" did a tour of New Zealand, as an Industrial Electrician by then I helped that band as a front-of house technician, alongside their own front-of-house technician.

I have also been a behind the scenes electrician for the likes of Billy Connolly, (who toured here in New Zealand back in 1987 or so?) as well as others I have forgotten about.

As I tried to explain (aand probably never did) I discovered an extremely easy ANALOGUE method, of derriving multiple hannels of pure sound "surround channels" from any bog standard stereo feed, be that from reel to reel, Tape, Vinl ON AIR Radio & TV broadcasts, through to live concert stage events, and through to local live anything events.
It works as well in cars, as does it in any private home.

AND, there is NO digital anything, involvement, until after the full NINE channels are found, after that, the rest are just summations between and differentials of, any two (or more mixed together) channels that I bring together by way of small 3K//3KCT audio signal transformers, that I can then amplify as needs be, by any amp, be it a sub woofer amp, or headphone amps or general household amps.
Heavier speaker output signal TOROIDS are way too expensive, for the little they bring to the table, although I must admit, the four I have bought, do an amazing job, it's just that I prefer to make my systems as cheaply (and as replaceable) as possible, to ensure people get value for money.

Back in 2012 I contacted an American guitarist who was starting to make his own (USA SPEAK) "analog" amps, when he travelled to New Zealand, to see if he cold "buy into" any existing audio business, through which to make his amps and to retire into NZ as a new immigrant.
I responded to the large newspaper interview/article, through which we talked several times at length, trying to "work into" the way too many strings & boundaries, the the NZ Immigration Office put up, to stop anyone except those (useless) trades that no one here wanted to join, or need to be truthfully honest) which meant the NZ Govt was effectively stymying any struggling "already existing" NZ Business, the chance to expand into International markets, that they themselves held a unique and valuable monopoly within, as by then I fully knew that no one (yes no one) had developed and sold many hand-built versions thereof.

But also, in hindsight, by making and selling these, to anyone who would buy them I shot myself in the foot to ever be grantd a patent for, as after selling many, there was no novelty in the as sold products.

Plus as I did "take to patent" a completely different product, that of a universal multiple swung hinge system, whereby anything so hung, could (with a few little add-ons), be swung around a vertical (thin) post, MORE than 360 degrees, depending on how many swung objects one wanted to swing in such a vast range of angles.

That the $3,000 I was originally quoted by a Patent Attorney, had blown out past $156,000 dollars by the time I had secured both the Nr=ew Zealand & Australian Patents, as well as a world WIPO application covering 90+ countries world wide, that I never would have been able to enforce had the need arisen, that any thought of patenting my "as builts", simply wasn't within my current or future financial sight to undertake.

So, I returned to that which made me happy, my very diverse multiple channel surround sound systems, which can (literally) decode any stereo format, ever devised, simply and efficiently, without fanfare or exorbitant prices.

Now, how to describe (without describing) a trade secret that I have kept under wraps, for close to a half century?

I can't, so maybe I will show people the end results, via visual clues, and enthralling sound, although mostly (some of which) are those I have deliberately PLAYED WITH (excessively).
In any format of my own minds later creativity.
Such as.. well lets not spoiler alert this shall we?
Take the lovely Titanic song, as I go down many octaves, and speed up too much, all the while, intermixing another love song, that of Selina Gomez, singing several different versions of her own Love to Love You ?love-song?

Why? Because YouTube won't let me MAKE analogue, educational and constructive remasterings, of anyone's original two channel (get it - a mere TWO & not the twenty or something I make them with) audio visual content videos mostly made with utterly irrelevant pictures and things, just to infill the visuals to get the audio air-time I need exposure with) hence many of my earlier musings were destroyed by YouTibe's useless copyright strikes, which I had to immediately take down and complain furiously about.
Many they agreed could have stayed, but as I told them, argue with me and you will NOT deserve to have them stay. (as by then whoever I had made them for, where i was taking myself and a cellphone into, someone's business, to display the resultant sounds and visuals with, in my ever lasting quest to sell as many as possible.

Mostly when seen and heard, there would be an instant request to "bring along" a few speakers and an amps or enough amps as I needed, to showcase to them exactly what they were about to buy, where most immediately fronted up with my requested music, that of their "favourite" CD's etc) being a very good selling point I might add, as none of them that did this, let me go without either agreeing wit me to be installing the system "right there and then", or agreeing to return with better equipment of their choosing, which I would attempt to get them to source (as than my job was cheaper for just the decoder and install).
Thus, I know they sell and sell commercially as well as into heavy industrial business properties, along with the more astute business people in shops etc., who desire a better (keep the customers in store - as long as possible) - easy listening surround sound systems.

I have absolutely no idea as to which of the many analogue surround formats people alude too, in these forums, but most if not all, need their own special decoders, which tells me big business with digital brains, thought of cunning ways to digitise their own decoded systems, to make them unable o be disseminated by others, who could copy them cheaper, hence why I sell mine at the cheapest most rock bottom miniature return prices, to undercut anyone who tries.

After all, at 70 years of age now, the NZ Govt pays me, to pay my NZ Company's outgoings, that keep me & my missus well fed & housed, so I don't need to retain in my own bank account (or in hers) very much of a standby amount, as we get MORE (free) NZ GOVT Superannuation money, every fortnight.

And?
Well lets see shall we?
A 3 channel outgoing system, that is piped across as is, and which then re-enters a 3 channel receiver system, which drives three channels of speaker sounds, that YOU can hear, slightly muddled up (both directional plays are done in a "Forwards & sdrawkcaB" mode that CANNOT be further reversed by you as it plays exactly the same both ways), whilst a decoded third channel is playing through each main two channel delivery versions, whilst you listen to this "content" with whatever you yourself, have plugged into - your mobile cellphone's audio output as you watch it's screen, (or via whatever you have plugged into your Laptop or PC's audio output socket.)
AND (well it's obvious isn't it, as AND = DNA
And thus sound is "in" my own DNA - just as it should be - in your own !!!!
View: https://youtu.be/Qcone1V6DpA
 

Quadrophonic.4Ever

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Feb 22, 2024
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Hi, I know that I am NOT in the UK or even in the USA (or for that matter, in any country NORTH of the middle of this planet).
I arrived into this world (down under) as the third child of a fairly poor orchardist family, who's main worker (Dad) did almost all of his many farming ventures, alone, except for family members such as myself (when I grew up enough) to do all the menial mundane stuff, such as making packing boxes, in the ever so hot mud-brick walled & tin roofed packing shed where he'd set-up a stout wooden bench with just enough "strips of wood" to allow someone to build any size packing box, from a simple display tray to a large main crop 20kg box.

So as I was (as I said) the last arrival, I didn't ever get any of the so-called "pocket money" that everyone else around me got, which - even if I ever did get anything, it would have proved pointless as we lived some 15 miles away from the "nearest" town along a very dusty winding & hilly road, long before we got down onto the "flat" where for the next five miles, the dust was a little deeper, (more horse drawn steel rimed traffic see) before a final mile or two of tarseal.

When I was going to primary school, (later after we had shifted down onto the flats when Dad bought a Dairy Farm, selling cans of Cream to the Dunedin Markets), my Dad said they had only just tarsealed all the main roads, in & around our rural township, so at least some of the shops were a LITTLE cleaner than others, although, back then - every shop that Mum dragged me along to visit, had a display entrance at the main doorway, through which NO ONE could enter - to browse, so people just stood inside that one/two person entranceway - to give a LIST of materials they had written down themselves, in the hope that a particular seller had what they needed, and if some were not available there, people would ask who (of the next door businesses) would possibly be able to help, so I never wanted any pocket money - as I couldn't think of any LESS "of what I thought I wanted", without actually knowing if that was even remotely available, hence my aversion to creating lists.

Ok wandered off there as I had to go do some things, back now without a clue as to where my mind has gone?

Ok, so, it appears as if there were ONLY the two systems that I read about, of which I knew how to arrive at both "sets" of speakers, after discovering a very simply method, in 1965, which has stood the test of time, over & over gain throughout my 70 year lifespan, and which I had (until I purchased a PC and got the internet connected in 2006, just assumed (as one does) that the whole world knew how, yet in 2006 when I did get online, NO ONE (anywhere in the world) has the faintest of clues, as to how to decode "manually" even the simplest 3rd channel, let alone either of the two main 4 ch versions tat I know of, and even less, of the "directly attainable" NINE (analogue) discrete channels that I discovered back in 1965, so it comes as no surprise to me now, to learn that some in the Northern Hemisphere, are starting to revert BACK to the least useable system that of BLAND singular MONO.

Basically because many have zero idea what they are missing out on, and even less want more than a SINGLE speaker in any room, much less one requiring speaker cables, let alone inbuilt stereo amp power cables and such.

It hurts me to learn, that many so-called professionals, have NEVER heard surround sound, in any format, and thus are the "main" antagonists ( I mean discussion experts), to provoke others less able to discover this for themselves, that MONO anything is any better than a good stereo set-up, but see, many stereo manufacturers, have for way too long, pushed people to place BOTH stereo speakers, side by side, underneath whatever else they use, such as a radio receiver, maybe a tape & CD player, as well as a top mounted vinyl record player..

I crashed onto one such idiots (I men professional somethings) website today, where this Id- person, was spouting off at how much BETTER mono tracks were to stereo versions?

On a website I couldn't be bothered signing into, if that's the rubbish they print.
ie: (medium's website) /@larskjensen/the-return-to-mono-9468ae3e97ac

That idiot was blurbling on as to how people were starting to return to MONO..?
Oh holey crap no.!!!!
Not me anyways.

Now, as to HOW one finds either of the two QUAD (Quadrophonic) systems, that I know of, these are extremely easy (well they are for me as I don't care how many amps I blow, in search of a work-around.

Thus, for the original QUAD that I learnt of in the mid 1970's (bearing in mind that I had myself, in mid 1965 discovered NINE easily found Analogue ONLY complete full frequency channels, inside a vinyl and a tape cassette as well as inside our even older old (stereo) 78's and the professionally multi-track tape reel-to-reel tape recordings, they used to use in a top of the rock, announcers cabin, perched there for all to see and hear (such as us at the other end of the mile & 1/2 straight beyond the hills where the Dam was located, s sound travels long distances in cold winter air.

Anyways, the announcer's music PA speaker arrays were on top of the small one manned announcers hut, down at the Lower Manorburn's Outdoor Winter Ice Skating Dam's Middle main basin, being just one of the three main basins.

Every weekend without fail mid winter, busses from everywhere, (Dunedin & Invercargill mostly) arrived in droves, to allow the passengers to alight at the bottom of the steepest gradient there, to allow as many of the strongest, to lean into the bus, to help it slip and slide uphill on the frozen /frosty grounds most winter weekends, until at the top of that rise, everyone would clamber back on-board, to slip/slide down the other side (the frozen shady side) until their bus was parked alongside many others, as maybe a thousand people or more, came to skate in the wonderful outdoor skating dams, that were there every winter.

About the mid 1970's the winters got less and less cold, until the local ice skating /winter sports club, mooted the idea of moving it all into town,
The idea was itself frozen in time, until after the building of the Clyde Hydro Dam, saw two heavy duty (liquid) Concrete warming towers, decommissioned and put up for sale.
There a local ice skater learnt, that those two towers, were excellent if reverse cycled, into huge freezing units, which (of course) were more than suitable "each" to drive the freezing of an outdoor Olympic sized rink, thus words were discussed, and the sellers partially gifted them to allow the very well known Ice Skating Club, to purchase for a song, the two decommissioned heater/chillers.

I was a volunteer, back in 1991/ 1992 when the rink was being prepared for concreting, as many hundred meters of ALKATHENE™ pipes were laid, under the reinforced mesh, that was also laid, to give the rink strength, when way too many skaters and a Zamboni were used "together", on whatever ice they had formed.

Anyways, they TOSSED (literally) all of their older reels into the local rubbish dump at Galloway, where I lived for most of my lengthy life, so it was my "go-too" shop, where for a cough on old dust here and there, I could "buy" anything I found there, if I could drag it over a few fences and the railway line, to get it onto our farm, where I could then take down Dad's wee TEA Fergy and trailer, to haul all my goodies, back to toss into a "hope dad doesn't take it all back" Heap, for me to work through.
That dump (and ours) revealed a LOT of old radio and TV speakers for many years, until the wheelie bin regime arrived, which saw the local council "close forever" my parts stores.

But hey by then I was earning a sufficient income, to go buy speakers and such, but not much else, apart from a LOT of connection cables.

Over the years since 1965 I have though, sold a LOT of "on-the-job" created surround sound decoders, for both commercial and heavy industry users, as well as private individuals with enough ready cash, to buy into my (analogue) direct decoded multiple channel "surround sound" systems.

As I too, bought into the fad, afterwards, of buying quad LP's to discover shock horror, they were muddied and way worse than open decoding stock standard 2ch stereo vinyl & tapes (both reeled versions of 7" reels and compact cassette types), along with my wonderfully weird way of decoding on-air FM & TV audio broadcasts, plus in 1997, when "Vine Song" did a tour of New Zealand, as an Industrial Electrician by then I helped that band as a front-of house technician, alongside their own front-of-house technician.

I have also been a behind the scenes electrician for the likes of Billy Connolly, (who toured here in New Zealand back in 1987 or so?) as well as others I have forgotten about.

As I tried to explain (aand probably never did) I discovered an extremely easy ANALOGUE method, of derriving multiple hannels of pure sound "surround channels" from any bog standard stereo feed, be that from reel to reel, Tape, Vinl ON AIR Radio & TV broadcasts, through to live concert stage events, and through to local live anything events.
It works as well in cars, as does it in any private home.

AND, there is NO digital anything, involvement, until after the full NINE channels are found, after that, the rest are just summations between and differentials of, any two (or more mixed together) channels that I bring together by way of small 3K//3KCT audio signal transformers, that I can then amplify as needs be, by any amp, be it a sub woofer amp, or headphone amps or general household amps.
Heavier speaker output signal TOROIDS are way too expensive, for the little they bring to the table, although I must admit, the four I have bought, do an amazing job, it's just that I prefer to make my systems as cheaply (and as replaceable) as possible, to ensure people get value for money.

Back in 2012 I contacted an American guitarist who was starting to make his own (USA SPEAK) "analog" amps, when he travelled to New Zealand, to see if he cold "buy into" any existing audio business, through which to make his amps and to retire into NZ as a new immigrant.
I responded to the large newspaper interview/article, through which we talked several times at length, trying to "work into" the way too many strings & boundaries, the the NZ Immigration Office put up, to stop anyone except those (useless) trades that no one here wanted to join, or need to be truthfully honest) which meant the NZ Govt was effectively stymying any struggling "already existing" NZ Business, the chance to expand into International markets, that they themselves held a unique and valuable monopoly within, as by then I fully knew that no one (yes no one) had developed and sold many hand-built versions thereof.

But also, in hindsight, by making and selling these, to anyone who would buy them I shot myself in the foot to ever be grantd a patent for, as after selling many, there was no novelty in the as sold products.

Plus as I did "take to patent" a completely different product, that of a universal multiple swung hinge system, whereby anything so hung, could (with a few little add-ons), be swung around a vertical (thin) post, MORE than 360 degrees, depending on how many swung objects one wanted to swing in such a vast range of angles.

That the $3,000 I was originally quoted by a Patent Attorney, had blown out past $156,000 dollars by the time I had secured both the Nr=ew Zealand & Australian Patents, as well as a world WIPO application covering 90+ countries world wide, that I never would have been able to enforce had the need arisen, that any thought of patenting my "as builts", simply wasn't within my current or future financial sight to undertake.

So, I returned to that which made me happy, my very diverse multiple channel surround sound systems, which can (literally) decode any stereo format, ever devised, simply and efficiently, without fanfare or exorbitant prices.

Now, how to describe (without describing) a trade secret that I have kept under wraps, for close to a half century?

I can't, so maybe I will show people the end results, via visual clues, and enthralling sound, although mostly (some of which) are those I have deliberately PLAYED WITH (excessively).
In any format of my own minds later creativity.
Such as.. well lets not spoiler alert this shall we?
Take the lovely Titanic song, as I go down many octaves, and speed up too much, all the while, intermixing another love song, that of Selina Gomez, singing several different versions of her own Love to Love You ?love-song?

Why? Because YouTube won't let me MAKE analogue, educational and constructive remasterings, of anyone's original two channel (get it - a mere TWO & not the twenty or something I make them with) audio visual content videos mostly made with utterly irrelevant pictures and things, just to infill the visuals to get the audio air-time I need exposure with) hence many of my earlier musings were destroyed by YouTibe's useless copyright strikes, which I had to immediately take down and complain furiously about.
Many they agreed could have stayed, but as I told them, argue with me and you will NOT deserve to have them stay. (as by then whoever I had made them for, where i was taking myself and a cellphone into, someone's business, to display the resultant sounds and visuals with, in my ever lasting quest to sell as many as possible.

Mostly when seen and heard, there would be an instant request to "bring along" a few speakers and an amps or enough amps as I needed, to showcase to them exactly what they were about to buy, where most immediately fronted up with my requested music, that of their "favourite" CD's etc) being a very good selling point I might add, as none of them that did this, let me go without either agreeing wit me to be installing the system "right there and then", or agreeing to return with better equipment of their choosing, which I would attempt to get them to source (as than my job was cheaper for just the decoder and install).
Thus, I know they sell and sell commercially as well as into heavy industrial business properties, along with the more astute business people in shops etc., who desire a better (keep the customers in store - as long as possible) - easy listening surround sound systems.

I have absolutely no idea as to which of the many analogue surround formats people alude too, in these forums, but most if not all, need their own special decoders, which tells me big business with digital brains, thought of cunning ways to digitise their own decoded systems, to make them unable o be disseminated by others, who could copy them cheaper, hence why I sell mine at the cheapest most rock bottom miniature return prices, to undercut anyone who tries.

After all, at 70 years of age now, the NZ Govt pays me, to pay my NZ Company's outgoings, that keep me & my missus well fed & housed, so I don't need to retain in my own bank account (or in hers) very much of a standby amount, as we get MORE (free) NZ GOVT Superannuation money, every fortnight.

And?
Well lets see shall we?
A 3 channel outgoing system, that is piped across as is, and which then re-enters a 3 channel receiver system, which drives three channels of speaker sounds, that YOU can hear, slightly muddled up (both directional plays are done in a "Forwards & sdrawkcaB" mode that CANNOT be further reversed by you as it plays exactly the same both ways), whilst a decoded third channel is playing through each main two channel delivery versions, whilst you listen to this "content" with whatever you yourself, have plugged into - your mobile cellphone's audio output as you watch it's screen, (or via whatever you have plugged into your Laptop or PC's audio output socket.)
AND (well it's obvious isn't it, as AND = DNA
And thus sound is "in" my own DNA - just as it should be - in your own !!!!
View: https://youtu.be/Qcone1V6DpA
Oops sorry, my mistakes (letters jumbled as well as the video content, as it was "supposed" to be the:
Titanicly Funny Love to Love it (upside down) and every other way past Sunday.
View: https://youtu.be/dbxZvn_cXrY
 
Hi, I know that I am NOT in the UK or even in the USA (or for that matter, in any country NORTH of the middle of this planet).
I arrived into this world (down under) as the third child of a fairly poor orchardist family, who's main worker (Dad) did almost all of his many farming ventures, alone, except for family members such as myself (when I grew up enough) to do all the menial mundane stuff, such as making packing boxes, in the ever so hot mud-brick walled & tin roofed packing shed where he'd set-up a stout wooden bench with just enough "strips of wood" to allow someone to build any size packing box, from a simple display tray to a large main crop 20kg box.

So as I was (as I said) the last arrival, I didn't ever get any of the so-called "pocket money" that everyone else around me got, which - even if I ever did get anything, it would have proved pointless as we lived some 15 miles away from the "nearest" town along a very dusty winding & hilly road, long before we got down onto the "flat" where for the next five miles, the dust was a little deeper, (more horse drawn steel rimed traffic see) before a final mile or two of tarseal.

When I was going to primary school, (later after we had shifted down onto the flats when Dad bought a Dairy Farm, selling cans of Cream to the Dunedin Markets), my Dad said they had only just tarsealed all the main roads, in & around our rural township, so at least some of the shops were a LITTLE cleaner than others, although, back then - every shop that Mum dragged me along to visit, had a display entrance at the main doorway, through which NO ONE could enter - to browse, so people just stood inside that one/two person entranceway - to give a LIST of materials they had written down themselves, in the hope that a particular seller had what they needed, and if some were not available there, people would ask who (of the next door businesses) would possibly be able to help, so I never wanted any pocket money - as I couldn't think of any LESS "of what I thought I wanted", without actually knowing if that was even remotely available, hence my aversion to creating lists.

Ok wandered off there as I had to go do some things, back now without a clue as to where my mind has gone?

Ok, so, it appears as if there were ONLY the two systems that I read about, of which I knew how to arrive at both "sets" of speakers, after discovering a very simply method, in 1965, which has stood the test of time, over & over gain throughout my 70 year lifespan, and which I had (until I purchased a PC and got the internet connected in 2006, just assumed (as one does) that the whole world knew how, yet in 2006 when I did get online, NO ONE (anywhere in the world) has the faintest of clues, as to how to decode "manually" even the simplest 3rd channel, let alone either of the two main 4 ch versions tat I know of, and even less, of the "directly attainable" NINE (analogue) discrete channels that I discovered back in 1965, so it comes as no surprise to me now, to learn that some in the Northern Hemisphere, are starting to revert BACK to the least useable system that of BLAND singular MONO.

Basically because many have zero idea what they are missing out on, and even less want more than a SINGLE speaker in any room, much less one requiring speaker cables, let alone inbuilt stereo amp power cables and such.

It hurts me to learn, that many so-called professionals, have NEVER heard surround sound, in any format, and thus are the "main" antagonists ( I mean discussion experts), to provoke others less able to discover this for themselves, that MONO anything is any better than a good stereo set-up, but see, many stereo manufacturers, have for way too long, pushed people to place BOTH stereo speakers, side by side, underneath whatever else they use, such as a radio receiver, maybe a tape & CD player, as well as a top mounted vinyl record player..

I crashed onto one such idiots (I men professional somethings) website today, where this Id- person, was spouting off at how much BETTER mono tracks were to stereo versions?

On a website I couldn't be bothered signing into, if that's the rubbish they print.
ie: (medium's website) /@larskjensen/the-return-to-mono-9468ae3e97ac

That idiot was blurbling on as to how people were starting to return to MONO..?
Oh holey crap no.!!!!
Not me anyways.

Now, as to HOW one finds either of the two QUAD (Quadrophonic) systems, that I know of, these are extremely easy (well they are for me as I don't care how many amps I blow, in search of a work-around.

Thus, for the original QUAD that I learnt of in the mid 1970's (bearing in mind that I had myself, in mid 1965 discovered NINE easily found Analogue ONLY complete full frequency channels, inside a vinyl and a tape cassette as well as inside our even older old (stereo) 78's and the professionally multi-track tape reel-to-reel tape recordings, they used to use in a top of the rock, announcers cabin, perched there for all to see and hear (such as us at the other end of the mile & 1/2 straight beyond the hills where the Dam was located, s sound travels long distances in cold winter air.

Anyways, the announcer's music PA speaker arrays were on top of the small one manned announcers hut, down at the Lower Manorburn's Outdoor Winter Ice Skating Dam's Middle main basin, being just one of the three main basins.

Every weekend without fail mid winter, busses from everywhere, (Dunedin & Invercargill mostly) arrived in droves, to allow the passengers to alight at the bottom of the steepest gradient there, to allow as many of the strongest, to lean into the bus, to help it slip and slide uphill on the frozen /frosty grounds most winter weekends, until at the top of that rise, everyone would clamber back on-board, to slip/slide down the other side (the frozen shady side) until their bus was parked alongside many others, as maybe a thousand people or more, came to skate in the wonderful outdoor skating dams, that were there every winter.

About the mid 1970's the winters got less and less cold, until the local ice skating /winter sports club, mooted the idea of moving it all into town,
The idea was itself frozen in time, until after the building of the Clyde Hydro Dam, saw two heavy duty (liquid) Concrete warming towers, decommissioned and put up for sale.
There a local ice skater learnt, that those two towers, were excellent if reverse cycled, into huge freezing units, which (of course) were more than suitable "each" to drive the freezing of an outdoor Olympic sized rink, thus words were discussed, and the sellers partially gifted them to allow the very well known Ice Skating Club, to purchase for a song, the two decommissioned heater/chillers.

I was a volunteer, back in 1991/ 1992 when the rink was being prepared for concreting, as many hundred meters of ALKATHENE™ pipes were laid, under the reinforced mesh, that was also laid, to give the rink strength, when way too many skaters and a Zamboni were used "together", on whatever ice they had formed.

Anyways, they TOSSED (literally) all of their older reels into the local rubbish dump at Galloway, where I lived for most of my lengthy life, so it was my "go-too" shop, where for a cough on old dust here and there, I could "buy" anything I found there, if I could drag it over a few fences and the railway line, to get it onto our farm, where I could then take down Dad's wee TEA Fergy and trailer, to haul all my goodies, back to toss into a "hope dad doesn't take it all back" Heap, for me to work through.
That dump (and ours) revealed a LOT of old radio and TV speakers for many years, until the wheelie bin regime arrived, which saw the local council "close forever" my parts stores.

But hey by then I was earning a sufficient income, to go buy speakers and such, but not much else, apart from a LOT of connection cables.

Over the years since 1965 I have though, sold a LOT of "on-the-job" created surround sound decoders, for both commercial and heavy industry users, as well as private individuals with enough ready cash, to buy into my (analogue) direct decoded multiple channel "surround sound" systems.

As I too, bought into the fad, afterwards, of buying quad LP's to discover shock horror, they were muddied and way worse than open decoding stock standard 2ch stereo vinyl & tapes (both reeled versions of 7" reels and compact cassette types), along with my wonderfully weird way of decoding on-air FM & TV audio broadcasts, plus in 1997, when "Vine Song" did a tour of New Zealand, as an Industrial Electrician by then I helped that band as a front-of house technician, alongside their own front-of-house technician.

I have also been a behind the scenes electrician for the likes of Billy Connolly, (who toured here in New Zealand back in 1987 or so?) as well as others I have forgotten about.

As I tried to explain (aand probably never did) I discovered an extremely easy ANALOGUE method, of derriving multiple hannels of pure sound "surround channels" from any bog standard stereo feed, be that from reel to reel, Tape, Vinl ON AIR Radio & TV broadcasts, through to live concert stage events, and through to local live anything events.
It works as well in cars, as does it in any private home.

AND, there is NO digital anything, involvement, until after the full NINE channels are found, after that, the rest are just summations between and differentials of, any two (or more mixed together) channels that I bring together by way of small 3K//3KCT audio signal transformers, that I can then amplify as needs be, by any amp, be it a sub woofer amp, or headphone amps or general household amps.
Heavier speaker output signal TOROIDS are way too expensive, for the little they bring to the table, although I must admit, the four I have bought, do an amazing job, it's just that I prefer to make my systems as cheaply (and as replaceable) as possible, to ensure people get value for money.

Back in 2012 I contacted an American guitarist who was starting to make his own (USA SPEAK) "analog" amps, when he travelled to New Zealand, to see if he cold "buy into" any existing audio business, through which to make his amps and to retire into NZ as a new immigrant.
I responded to the large newspaper interview/article, through which we talked several times at length, trying to "work into" the way too many strings & boundaries, the the NZ Immigration Office put up, to stop anyone except those (useless) trades that no one here wanted to join, or need to be truthfully honest) which meant the NZ Govt was effectively stymying any struggling "already existing" NZ Business, the chance to expand into International markets, that they themselves held a unique and valuable monopoly within, as by then I fully knew that no one (yes no one) had developed and sold many hand-built versions thereof.

But also, in hindsight, by making and selling these, to anyone who would buy them I shot myself in the foot to ever be grantd a patent for, as after selling many, there was no novelty in the as sold products.

Plus as I did "take to patent" a completely different product, that of a universal multiple swung hinge system, whereby anything so hung, could (with a few little add-ons), be swung around a vertical (thin) post, MORE than 360 degrees, depending on how many swung objects one wanted to swing in such a vast range of angles.

That the $3,000 I was originally quoted by a Patent Attorney, had blown out past $156,000 dollars by the time I had secured both the Nr=ew Zealand & Australian Patents, as well as a world WIPO application covering 90+ countries world wide, that I never would have been able to enforce had the need arisen, that any thought of patenting my "as builts", simply wasn't within my current or future financial sight to undertake.

So, I returned to that which made me happy, my very diverse multiple channel surround sound systems, which can (literally) decode any stereo format, ever devised, simply and efficiently, without fanfare or exorbitant prices.

Now, how to describe (without describing) a trade secret that I have kept under wraps, for close to a half century?

I can't, so maybe I will show people the end results, via visual clues, and enthralling sound, although mostly (some of which) are those I have deliberately PLAYED WITH (excessively).
In any format of my own minds later creativity.
Such as.. well lets not spoiler alert this shall we?
Take the lovely Titanic song, as I go down many octaves, and speed up too much, all the while, intermixing another love song, that of Selina Gomez, singing several different versions of her own Love to Love You ?love-song?

Why? Because YouTube won't let me MAKE analogue, educational and constructive remasterings, of anyone's original two channel (get it - a mere TWO & not the twenty or something I make them with) audio visual content videos mostly made with utterly irrelevant pictures and things, just to infill the visuals to get the audio air-time I need exposure with) hence many of my earlier musings were destroyed by YouTibe's useless copyright strikes, which I had to immediately take down and complain furiously about.
Many they agreed could have stayed, but as I told them, argue with me and you will NOT deserve to have them stay. (as by then whoever I had made them for, where i was taking myself and a cellphone into, someone's business, to display the resultant sounds and visuals with, in my ever lasting quest to sell as many as possible.

Mostly when seen and heard, there would be an instant request to "bring along" a few speakers and an amps or enough amps as I needed, to showcase to them exactly what they were about to buy, where most immediately fronted up with my requested music, that of their "favourite" CD's etc) being a very good selling point I might add, as none of them that did this, let me go without either agreeing wit me to be installing the system "right there and then", or agreeing to return with better equipment of their choosing, which I would attempt to get them to source (as than my job was cheaper for just the decoder and install).
Thus, I know they sell and sell commercially as well as into heavy industrial business properties, along with the more astute business people in shops etc., who desire a better (keep the customers in store - as long as possible) - easy listening surround sound systems.

I have absolutely no idea as to which of the many analogue surround formats people alude too, in these forums, but most if not all, need their own special decoders, which tells me big business with digital brains, thought of cunning ways to digitise their own decoded systems, to make them unable o be disseminated by others, who could copy them cheaper, hence why I sell mine at the cheapest most rock bottom miniature return prices, to undercut anyone who tries.

After all, at 70 years of age now, the NZ Govt pays me, to pay my NZ Company's outgoings, that keep me & my missus well fed & housed, so I don't need to retain in my own bank account (or in hers) very much of a standby amount, as we get MORE (free) NZ GOVT Superannuation money, every fortnight.

And?
Well lets see shall we?
A 3 channel outgoing system, that is piped across as is, and which then re-enters a 3 channel receiver system, which drives three channels of speaker sounds, that YOU can hear, slightly muddled up (both directional plays are done in a "Forwards & sdrawkcaB" mode that CANNOT be further reversed by you as it plays exactly the same both ways), whilst a decoded third channel is playing through each main two channel delivery versions, whilst you listen to this "content" with whatever you yourself, have plugged into - your mobile cellphone's audio output as you watch it's screen, (or via whatever you have plugged into your Laptop or PC's audio output socket.)
AND (well it's obvious isn't it, as AND = DNA
And thus sound is "in" my own DNA - just as it should be - in your own !!!!
View: https://youtu.be/Qcone1V6DpA
You are replying to someone who hasn't been here in nearly six years.

I'd also suggest that if you make posts of that length, no-one is ging to read them. You also seem to be going all over the place in terms of subjects - perhaps you could read the forum rules about going off topic. Rules are in a sticky in each sub-forum.
 
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