Was going to get the Rega for £248 but have seen that the project is on sale at £299. Is the project worth the extra cash or should I stick with the Rega? Amp is yamaha a-s500 and speakers monitor bx5's.
Project debut carbon or Rega Planar 1
- Thread starter emcc_3
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chebby
Well-known member
Al ears
Well-known member
plastic penguin
Well-known member
stevebrock said:
What's happening to the sainted company? Wobbly platters and humming amps over recent times. Is it a case of trying to be all things to all people? If that's so then they should concentrate on what made them famous all those decades ago.
paul darwin
Well-known member
Hi Plastic Penguin,
Not sure about "Sainted" feels more like "Slated" at times.
No manufacturer has 100% reliability, we build and sell over 30,000 turntables pa worldwide and our returns rates are significantly less than 1% which is an enviable rate in our industry. Our inwards and outwards QC is extremely dilligent in ensuring that every piece of Rega equipment that is sold is working to 100% of its potential when it leaves Rega HQ.
Furthermore, what is not stated in some critical posts I have read and investigated is that the problem was caused by transit damage, user error, incompatability, local electrical supply, wiring errors, customer handling and installation issues, etc etc, or indeed when inspected there was no fault found, buyer remorse, change of mind or circumstance etc.
What is really important is in the unlikely event an issue arises, whatever the source or situation, is that it is dealt with promptly and professionally and to the customers complete satisfaction.
I am confident that the support our customers can expect and receive from Rega, or via our distributors and dealers is among the best in the industry. To that end, in an era where some manufacturers are withdrawing servicing support for their products we can also service virtually everything we have built for the last 43 years often at little or no cost or significantly cheaper than others.
Best regards,
Paul Darwin
Rega Research.
Not sure about "Sainted" feels more like "Slated" at times.
No manufacturer has 100% reliability, we build and sell over 30,000 turntables pa worldwide and our returns rates are significantly less than 1% which is an enviable rate in our industry. Our inwards and outwards QC is extremely dilligent in ensuring that every piece of Rega equipment that is sold is working to 100% of its potential when it leaves Rega HQ.
Furthermore, what is not stated in some critical posts I have read and investigated is that the problem was caused by transit damage, user error, incompatability, local electrical supply, wiring errors, customer handling and installation issues, etc etc, or indeed when inspected there was no fault found, buyer remorse, change of mind or circumstance etc.
What is really important is in the unlikely event an issue arises, whatever the source or situation, is that it is dealt with promptly and professionally and to the customers complete satisfaction.
I am confident that the support our customers can expect and receive from Rega, or via our distributors and dealers is among the best in the industry. To that end, in an era where some manufacturers are withdrawing servicing support for their products we can also service virtually everything we have built for the last 43 years often at little or no cost or significantly cheaper than others.
Best regards,
Paul Darwin
Rega Research.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
paul darwin said:
Morning Paul.
Certainly not slating your products. But I/we know Steve has had a few issues over the last 3-4 years with his previous Rega amps, and believe that's now been solved. However, you've picked out a few areas of concern:
Transit damage: If that's so, why do we (albeit on here) not hear of other makes with similar damage
Local electrical supply: How sensitive are your products? I've been buying hi-fi since 1978 (vastly different brands (Pioneer, Hitachi, Wharfedale, JVC, Arcams, Leema, Garrard to name just a few) and I've never experienced any electrical-related problems
Not sure what you mean by incompatability or user error, unless your referring to product abuse.
I heard one of the original Planar turntables back in the 80s and loved it. Alas it was out of my price bracket at the time. So I don't have an issue with your products. You state figures and - rightly - that no manufacturer is perfect, but the fact remains the criticisms are there.
Personally speaking, these criticisms wouldn't be deal maker or breaker for me, if I decide to upgrade in the future.
paul darwin
Well-known member
Plastic Penguin,
Transit damage - when transporting products around the world we do not have absolute control and it is therefore impossible to ensure they are always handled sensitively, our turntables for example should be the correct side up as our packaging suggests. I know from talking to many other manufacturers that problems do on occasion occur and just because they have not been noted here does not mean they do not happen.
Local electrical supply - our products are not especially sensitive but the world over the quality of the mains varies, this can in extreme circumstances affect a components performance and suseptibility to noise from transformers for example, I couldn't comment but others will be able to list brands where this is not unknown. Earthing systems vary enormously. Different equipment in the same system may employ different earthing arrangements. If you route the delicate signals from a turntable to a phono stage in very close proximity to mains cables that can introduce noise. Good housekeeping and dealer experience and knowledge avoids or erradicates most issues
Incompatability - the cases are so many and varied but buying a turntable with a moving coil cartridge when someone has only a moving magnet phono stage would be one example. Not having a phono stage at all and expecting a turntable to work. Under powered amplifier into low impedence inneficient speakers in a big room is another but there are so so many.
User error - user abused and manufacturer blamed is sadly not un common.
Paul Darwin
Rega Resarch
Transit damage - when transporting products around the world we do not have absolute control and it is therefore impossible to ensure they are always handled sensitively, our turntables for example should be the correct side up as our packaging suggests. I know from talking to many other manufacturers that problems do on occasion occur and just because they have not been noted here does not mean they do not happen.
Local electrical supply - our products are not especially sensitive but the world over the quality of the mains varies, this can in extreme circumstances affect a components performance and suseptibility to noise from transformers for example, I couldn't comment but others will be able to list brands where this is not unknown. Earthing systems vary enormously. Different equipment in the same system may employ different earthing arrangements. If you route the delicate signals from a turntable to a phono stage in very close proximity to mains cables that can introduce noise. Good housekeeping and dealer experience and knowledge avoids or erradicates most issues
Incompatability - the cases are so many and varied but buying a turntable with a moving coil cartridge when someone has only a moving magnet phono stage would be one example. Not having a phono stage at all and expecting a turntable to work. Under powered amplifier into low impedence inneficient speakers in a big room is another but there are so so many.
User error - user abused and manufacturer blamed is sadly not un common.
Paul Darwin
Rega Resarch
plastic penguin said:
I think by 'local electrical supply', Paul is referring to different supplies around the world rather than in the UK, e.g. in Rangoon rather than Reigate.
Some interesting info in this thread, anyway.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
paul darwin said:
Hi Paul
I totally understand that using carriers is frought with an element of "will my products arrive in one piece or not?". I have the same issues with my small business. Nevertheless the problems I've read are with people who live on mainland UK. That should answer the electrical supply issue.
As regards incompatability, and perhaps people are using MC cart with MM phono stage, isn't that down to your dealers making sure that doesn't happen?
I use Infidelity Hi-Fi in Hampton Wick and I can't ever imagine them selling a Rega product with such schoolboy errors.
Going back to my previous post, amp 'hum' or platter 'wobble', defects with Apollo-R seem to crop up more often than other brands.
About 3 years ago I dem'd at Infidelity (dem isn't actually true. It was already set-up for someone to dem) the Elicit-R with PMC 23s, and it sounded fine. There was no audible issues that Steve experienced a while back.
I'm sure that these problems are very much a minority, nevertheless they can't be swept under the carpet and just say "hey-ho".
paul darwin
Well-known member
I am not trying to sweep anything under the carpet, nor am I saying "hey ho".
I am also not interested in discussing the subject any further with you on a public forum, I am, however, more than willing to help any Rega customer who may have a problem.
Paul Darwin
Rega Research
I am also not interested in discussing the subject any further with you on a public forum, I am, however, more than willing to help any Rega customer who may have a problem.
Paul Darwin
Rega Research
plastic penguin
Well-known member
avole said:
Not at all bitter. My reasoning is balanced. I'm trying to highlight to Paul that these problems are real. It's been a fairly regaular theme for the last 4 years or so.
Here's another one, or do you think this poster is bitter?
It pains me to read these comments
im always reluctant to slate Rega products - think they sound mostly great for the money - however I have moved from Rega over the last few years - and yes I have had problems which have been well documented - however Paul D has always been there to rectify matters.
I've moved onto Primare amplification now , however I recently bought an RP8 just out of curiosity ( it was a cosmetic seconds - sounds great btw typical Rega - lively & musical )
Also still own a Rega DAC - but it's gathering dust as vinyl is my main source.
On a positive note I always recommend Rega stuff to newbies starting out - but lately these QC issues are popping up too often if I'm honest.
im always reluctant to slate Rega products - think they sound mostly great for the money - however I have moved from Rega over the last few years - and yes I have had problems which have been well documented - however Paul D has always been there to rectify matters.
I've moved onto Primare amplification now , however I recently bought an RP8 just out of curiosity ( it was a cosmetic seconds - sounds great btw typical Rega - lively & musical )
Also still own a Rega DAC - but it's gathering dust as vinyl is my main source.
On a positive note I always recommend Rega stuff to newbies starting out - but lately these QC issues are popping up too often if I'm honest.
paul darwin
Well-known member
Plastic Penguin,
It may not be a bitter post but it is unhelpful and negative.
The OP admits that the channel difference is "little to it" and without knowing his system and set up it is impossible to ascribe it 100% to the turntable as you appear to suggest.
Could it be the phono stage ? or could it be the amplifier ? or both ?
I do not know and without the opportunity of further investigation would not seek to proffer an opinion.
Paul Darwin
Rega Research
It may not be a bitter post but it is unhelpful and negative.
The OP admits that the channel difference is "little to it" and without knowing his system and set up it is impossible to ascribe it 100% to the turntable as you appear to suggest.
Could it be the phono stage ? or could it be the amplifier ? or both ?
I do not know and without the opportunity of further investigation would not seek to proffer an opinion.
Paul Darwin
Rega Research
How a) putting them in context and b) contacting Rega ?stevebrock said:
People seem to forget that Pro-ject had a problem with motor noise on their cheaper turntables for over a decade which has only recently been fixed. Linn had problems with its Akito arms, Roksan with its plinths, the list goes on. All long fixed now, of course.
As to PP, I live in rural France now and yes, there are problems with the electricity, often caused by unthinking farmers or lightning. I've also had failed Kef speakers, a NAD amp that lost a channel, and even the housing for the input sockets on my SFs splitting. I've also had a failed Rega phono stage, by the way. In all cases, the manufacturer repaired them for free even though the guarantees on some items had long expired.
Rega does, in my opinion, have a problem with its turntables, which always seem to run slightly fast if you believe the tests in Stereophile amonst others. Not necessarily a bad thing - other manufacturers have done the same because it makes the music seem more lively - but this is meant to be Hi Fi, after all.
Anyway, back on topic, I can't help thinking some forum members are jumping to conclusions rather than stopping to look at the bigger picture.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
paul darwin said:
It could be a number of things, I concur. But it's still unhelpful and negative to the people who've shelled out thousands on your products.
The problem with hi-fi and AV stuff is most people speak with their wallets. By that I mean, few hate to make a complaint if their component goes wrong. The vast majority will just swap it over for another brand. How unhelpful and negative is that for Rega's reputation?
I'm only flagging this up because I'm passionate about the hobby/interest -- and I admire the name of Rega as one of a few true British brands. Hi-fi needs Rega as much as it needs Leema, Naim and other proper hi-fi names..
paul darwin
Well-known member
Plastic Penguin,
Unless I am misreading your post, I completely agree, your comments are unhelpful and negative to the thousands and thousands of people who buy, use, enjoy and appreciate our equipment for it's performance, build quality, sound quality, reliabilty, serviceability and even possible resale value, being hand built, UK sourced and with the absolute musicality upon which our reputation is built.
I disagree though, with the advent of social media it appears more and more people are willing to share their experiences and complaints with complete strangers who are often willing to accept their version of events with absolutely no recourse to the truth - that is potentially dangerous to any manufacturer and their hard earned reputation. This, then, if unchallenged, often becomes "the truth" and further damage is potentially done.
By the way, I too, am absolutely passionate about music, musical reproduction and the job that I do and am more than happy to help and advise where it is required, but I can totally understand why the majority of other manufacturers are unwilling to involve themselves with similar dialogue on this and other forums.
Sadly, as a result, this may mean that customers are not getting the impartial advice, support and information they require, and may even be misguided due to certain cynical and malevolent posts from naysayers with no actual experience of the equpment involved whose sole intention appears to be to act, comment and have an opinion on potentially incomplete information and interpret it to support their agendas, present company excepted, obviously.
At the end of the day the only interests should be that the customer / music fan gets the best system he / she can get from whichever manufacturer that maybe and lets hope that it can be achieved without misinformation and bias from any source.
Paul Darwin
Rega Research
Unless I am misreading your post, I completely agree, your comments are unhelpful and negative to the thousands and thousands of people who buy, use, enjoy and appreciate our equipment for it's performance, build quality, sound quality, reliabilty, serviceability and even possible resale value, being hand built, UK sourced and with the absolute musicality upon which our reputation is built.
I disagree though, with the advent of social media it appears more and more people are willing to share their experiences and complaints with complete strangers who are often willing to accept their version of events with absolutely no recourse to the truth - that is potentially dangerous to any manufacturer and their hard earned reputation. This, then, if unchallenged, often becomes "the truth" and further damage is potentially done.
By the way, I too, am absolutely passionate about music, musical reproduction and the job that I do and am more than happy to help and advise where it is required, but I can totally understand why the majority of other manufacturers are unwilling to involve themselves with similar dialogue on this and other forums.
Sadly, as a result, this may mean that customers are not getting the impartial advice, support and information they require, and may even be misguided due to certain cynical and malevolent posts from naysayers with no actual experience of the equpment involved whose sole intention appears to be to act, comment and have an opinion on potentially incomplete information and interpret it to support their agendas, present company excepted, obviously.
At the end of the day the only interests should be that the customer / music fan gets the best system he / she can get from whichever manufacturer that maybe and lets hope that it can be achieved without misinformation and bias from any source.
Paul Darwin
Rega Research
plastic penguin
Well-known member
paul darwin said:
Paul.
I really do 'get' where you're coming from. Let's just say apart from buying a house or a car, hi-fi is probably next on the list when it comes expenditure. I fully understand that no electrical product is perfect; I had issues with my Leema, where I was experiencing humming from the headphone socket but nothing through the speakers. I whinged on here at the time, but it was rectified... and it seemed to be a bad batch of that partcular model from that particular dealer.
I've personally not heard or experienced the issues people have mentioned on here when I've heard your amps, CDPs...
If you go to a restaurant that has good reviews but your experience is less than the review suggests, do you go back for another go or give it a wide berth and try another eating house?
Sorry for using a food analogy, but you could be losing business because of the issues mentioned on this forum alone.
Fair play to you for coming on this forum. I agree few others do that. That said, by participating there is going to be criticism as well as praise. Over recent times the former outweighs the latter. Even if you don't agree or hate what I'm saying you have to accept that it's more than just coincidence.
jonathanRD
Well-known member
Nothing personal, but I have to say that I am with Paul and Avole on this one.
I am very fond of the Rega brand and would like to support all the 'British' manufacturers.
I'm not sure that I would take to the internet if I personally had a problem, I would rather go through my dealer and get it fixed. Only if I came up against a brick wall would I consider 'naming and shaming' a manufacturer for not resolving an issue.
Commenting from the terrace without being involved or having the full facts is not helpful IMHO and no amount of explanation will change my view *smile*
At some future point I want to get a new turntable and Rega will be one of my options. If I get one and have a problem I will expect it to be fixed. If that does not happen I will get my money back and go elsewhere, I'm sure if this was happening regularly Rega would be getting enough flac from their dealer network to sort out the root cause of the issues pretty fast. Anybody who has worked for a medium/small manufacturer understands how important it is to fix problems. Redundancy is not pleasant. nor are shareholders without a dividend.
I am very fond of the Rega brand and would like to support all the 'British' manufacturers.
I'm not sure that I would take to the internet if I personally had a problem, I would rather go through my dealer and get it fixed. Only if I came up against a brick wall would I consider 'naming and shaming' a manufacturer for not resolving an issue.
Commenting from the terrace without being involved or having the full facts is not helpful IMHO and no amount of explanation will change my view *smile*
At some future point I want to get a new turntable and Rega will be one of my options. If I get one and have a problem I will expect it to be fixed. If that does not happen I will get my money back and go elsewhere, I'm sure if this was happening regularly Rega would be getting enough flac from their dealer network to sort out the root cause of the issues pretty fast. Anybody who has worked for a medium/small manufacturer understands how important it is to fix problems. Redundancy is not pleasant. nor are shareholders without a dividend.
is silly. People have different tastes, so what floats one person's boat may be an anathema for someone else. Nothing whatsoever to do with poor QC, come on. By the way, I am talking from experience.
Also, you said previously you had no problem with your gear previously, yet now you are saying your Leema product had problems - should I start a thread now saying how bad Leema are?
Yet you own Alfas. Tell me, how reliable have they been - I mean the marque, not your perfect cars - and how good is their reputation, but that doesn't seem to matter to you, despite all the myriads of reported problems*. Play fair, you need to be more objective. I suspect Rega are no worse than anyone else. Where it seems they excel, however, is in after sales service and support for their products, even long after the warranty period.
* By the way, buying my fourth Alfa in January.
Also, you said previously you had no problem with your gear previously, yet now you are saying your Leema product had problems - should I start a thread now saying how bad Leema are?
Yet you own Alfas. Tell me, how reliable have they been - I mean the marque, not your perfect cars - and how good is their reputation, but that doesn't seem to matter to you, despite all the myriads of reported problems*. Play fair, you need to be more objective. I suspect Rega are no worse than anyone else. Where it seems they excel, however, is in after sales service and support for their products, even long after the warranty period.
* By the way, buying my fourth Alfa in January.
paul darwin
Well-known member
Avole and Plastic Penguin,
My last car was an Alfa 159 JTDM and I absolutely loved it and it was completely without problems ;-)
PD
My last car was an Alfa 159 JTDM and I absolutely loved it and it was completely without problems ;-)
PD
Freddy58
Well-known member
Crikey PP - you've gone in hard on PD
loved my Rega gear SQ wise - PD did a fantastic job resolving my issues but in the end I upgraded to the Primare gear.
if I was stuck on a desert island and could have £1500 for a vinyl system it would always be a Brio R Planar 3 & RS1s - brilliant system
loved my Rega gear SQ wise - PD did a fantastic job resolving my issues but in the end I upgraded to the Primare gear.
if I was stuck on a desert island and could have £1500 for a vinyl system it would always be a Brio R Planar 3 & RS1s - brilliant system
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