Problem with ROTEL A 11 Tribute

[komitoff]

Hello, everyone

Please comment this problem with A11 tribute.
When increasing/decreasing the volume at each step of is heard (ts, ts, ts, ts)
One more problem - when switched on and volume position other than 0 (1-95), the speakers produce a very quiet hiss sound.
Is there anyone with identical amplifier?
That's how we'll know if the problem is with my device.
Video:


Edited by mods.
Please just state nature of issue.


Thanks in advance

 

[Gray]

(I listened to your video before your link was removed).
I'd be amazed if that was normal for the model.

No doubt still under guarantee?
Can you get it back to a dealer - if only to compare with another?
(Another won't be like that).

 

[matthewpianist]

I've owned an A11 Tribute and I can confirm that this behaviour is normal for this model. Neither impedes the performance of the amplifier, but the clicking of the volume control is strangely irritating.

Slight background hiss/hum is a feature of many amplifiers including brands such as Naim and Rega - the Rega iO and Brio are particularly prone, but even the Elex-R I had displayed this to some extent.

I compared the A11 Tribute I had to a Marantz PM6007, and I felt the Marantz was significantly better executed in every way. The better Tribute component IMO is the CD player, but this also has its issues.

 

[podknocker]

I can't believe so many modern designs have issues like this. Hissing and static and buzzing noises, from brand new and expensive amps etc. I fancied a Roksan Attessa streaming amp, but changed my mind when a few owners complained about noise from one channel. Roksan's response was that this 'feature' was due to the elaborate design and they tried to somehow justify this design flaw as a necessary thing, in order to deliver the amps power and sound quality. Bulls*it. There shouldn't be any issues like this and if you have noise coming through, then it's either a design flaw, which needs further development, or the device is faulty. I'm fed up of this endless marketing nonsense from major electronic companies, while they are cutting corners and releasing very expensive, but poorly executed devices. My Audiolab Omnia and the Quad Vena 2 I had before it, both suffered from design faults and should have been through extended testing before release. I think quality control is shocking now. Money for old rope.

 

[Gray]

I've owned an A11 Tribute and I can confirm that this behaviour is normal for this model.

You've really surprised me there.
Maybe his video contained hiss from elsewhere (I doubt that).
But the hiss that I heard was totally unacceptable to me - and, I assume it would be to most others.

All I can say is that I was repairing cheap consumer audio products decades ago that did not have that level of hiss.

No way would I accept that.

 

[matthewpianist]

You've really surprised me there.
Maybe his video contained hiss from elsewhere (I doubt that).
But the hiss that I heard was totally unacceptable to me - and, I assume it would be to most others.

All I can say is that I was repairing cheap consumer audio products decades ago that did not have that level of hiss.

No way would I accept that.

Me neither, which is why I didn't stick with it.

 

[SteveR750]

I can turn my Yamaha up, stick my ear next to the tweeter and barely hear a thing, so that is not ideal. A noise floor that is that loud means a compromise in the dynamic range of the device.

 

[robdmarsh]

Audiolab 6000A I tried had low level hum. Fmj A29 I just said goodbye to had very low level buzz. Don't know if these things are just "characteristics" of some the designs and we're supposed to be able to live with them. Denon pma 800ne on the other hand, silent as the tomb!

 

[matthewpianist]

Audiolab 6000A I tried had low level hum. Fmj A29 I just said goodbye to had very low level buzz. Don't know if these things are just "characteristics" of some the designs and we're supposed to be able to live with them. Denon pma 800ne on the other hand, silent as the tomb!

The Audiolab and Arcam (and the A11 Tribute) have toroidal transformers, whereas the Denon doesn't (neither does the Yamaha mentioned above). Toroids have advantages but some noise can be a disadvantage, often because the transformer hasn't been seated properly or is manufactured to a price and has inconsistent windings. I've never heard a Denon amp buzz.

 

[robdmarsh]

The Audiolab and Arcam (and the A11 Tribute) have toroidal transformers, whereas the Denon doesn't (neither does the Yamaha mentioned above). Toroids have advantages but some noise can be a disadvantage, often because the transformer hasn't been seated properly or is manufactured to a price and has inconsistent windings. I've never heard a Denon amp buzz.

I thought that was the case. Denon don't use toroidial transformers even on their end amps. Now I think I understand why - they are a 110 year old company so they probably know a thing or two!

 

[komitoff]

(I listened to your video before your link was removed).
I'd be amazed if that was normal for the model.

No doubt still under guarantee?
Can you get it back to a dealer - if only to compare with another?
(Another won't be like that).

local dealer and service say:
The device is OK

 

[komitoff]

I've owned an A11 Tribute and I can confirm that this behaviour is normal for this model. Neither impedes the performance of the amplifier, but the clicking of the volume control is strangely irritating.

Slight background hiss/hum is a feature of many amplifiers including brands such as Naim and Rega - the Rega iO and Brio are particularly prone, but even the Elex-R I had displayed this to some extent.

I compared the A11 Tribute I had to a Marantz PM6007, and I felt the Marantz was significantly better executed in every way. The better Tribute component IMO is the CD player, but this also has its issues.

Please, send me a link with a video of your device - so I can compare.

Edited by mods.

thanks in advance

 

[Al ears]

Please, send me a link with a video of your device - so I can compare.

Edited by mods....

thanks in advance

that's sort of against forum rules, please read them, I have removed the link.
He can message you though via the forum
On another note I might add this is not what I have experienced with any Rotel amp I have owned, whatever your dealer says....

 

[Gray]

local dealer and service say:
The device is OK

Whenever a known inferior product is complained about, a service centre can rightly say that it is, 'operating to the manufacturer's standard'.
However, Rotel are not known for inferior products.

Whether or not it's standard for the model, you'd be right to insist that it is not fit for (hi-fi) purpose.

 

[Al ears]

Whenever a known inferior product is complained about, a service centre can rightly say that it is, 'operating to the manufacturer's standard'.
However, Rotel are not known for inferior products.

Whether or not it's standard for the model, you'd be right to insist that it is not fit for (hi-fi) purpose.

correct

 

[matthewpianist]

I've never come across it on any previous Rotel amplifiers, just on the A11 Tribute.

I have to say, the feel and operation of Rotel amplifiers isn't what it used to be. The Rotel RA-01 I had in the past was superior to the A11 Tribute in every respect and created no background noise. Likewise the RA-920ax I had before that.

 

[SteveR750]

FWIW, toroidal transformers are generally cheaper than conventional square designs, and not any better. Another hifi myth that's used in advertising copy.

 

[nopiano]

This noise is a surprise to me too, especially as this pairing - and the non-Tribute versions - had glowing reviews. Paul Miller measured better than 80dB SN ratio in Hifi News, which I’d not expect to result in any speaker hiss. https://www.hifinews.com/content/rotel-cd11a11-tribute-cd-playerintegrated-amplifer-lab-report

I’d like to think this is a one-off, but Matthew’s experience suggests it might not be. I think I’d be rejecting it.

 

[podknocker]

WIKI says magnetic flux density is better with toroidals. There's less leakage and possibility of this field affecting nearby components.

Toroidal inductors and transformers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

'Due to the symmetry of a toroid, little magnetic flux escapes from the core (leakage flux). Thus, a toroidal inductor/transformer, radiates less electromagnetic interference (EMI) to adjacent circuits and is an ideal choice for highly concentrated environments.[3] Manufacturers have adopted toroidal coils in recent years to comply with increasingly strict international standards limiting the amount of electromagnetic field consumer electronics can produce.'

 

[Gray]

I'm pretty sure that either:
1) The OPs amp was (much) worse than the standard.
2) His recording process exaggerated the hiss that I heard.
3) 1 & 2 above.

Because hiss so bad would not be missed by any (non-deaf) reviewer.
And I just can't imagine RA-11 owners suffering that level of hiss.

 

[Gray]

...yet he reports that the dealer and service say it's OK.

 

[matthewpianist]

The sound made on rotating the volume control is not a fault, it's just part of the design of the volume control.

The Rotel does produce a very small amount of background hiss, but no more than I've heard from amps such as those by Rega, Naim etc.

 

[Gray]

The Rotel does produce a very small amount of background hiss, but no more than I've heard from amps such as those by Rega, Naim etc.

Hopefully not audible from the listening position - and not on headphones.
(No doubt some would argue that it wouldn't be noticed with music playing - but that's not the point).

 

[plastic penguin]

Hopefully not audible from the listening position - and not on headphones.
(No doubt some would argue that it wouldn't be noticed with music playing - but that's not the point).

Interesting -- after reading this thread, I tried my amp. No hissing is audible until you get to three quarters volume, even at full volume it's such a tiny amount.

 

[Gray]

Interesting -- after reading this thread, I tried my amp. No hissing is audible until you get to three quarters volume, even at full volume it's such a tiny amount.

Will be interesting to see what others find.
Maybe it needs a thread of its own because it's a very important topic.

The relevant test is no music with the volume control at your normal listening position.
(Turntable users should be on the phono input of course).
If you hear any hiss, it's part of your music - no inky black backgrounds for you.

If nothing else, that scenario would make a mockery of swapping cables.