Problem with PMC PRODIGY 1

[rayolight]

Purchased the Prodigy 1 speakers in February of this year. They have been excellent, doing everything that I wanted them to do ,great soundstage, excellent bass and super mids and highs,so all good.
Switched my system off the other night after about a 3 hour session all fine.
Switched the system on next evening sound sounded flat with no highs,on checking,both tweeters were providing no sound. Visual check and as I hope you can see from enclosed pictures,absolutely no damage . I have 2 amp systems so tried them on other system with exactly the same results . Contacted PMC but they just referred me to distributor as on warranty. My question is has anyone else had any problems with these speakers, I am sure I will get comments that they have been overdriven, can only say not as far as I am aware,smallish room so no need for power. I believe some speakers are fitted with fuses is this a possibility.Can a tweeter be blown without any damage to the cone ,bearing in mind this has happened to both speakers. Due to my location in Spain sending speakers back for repair is a nightmare and if I could confirm what caused the problem would be happy to buy 2 replacements when over in UK for Christmas. Has anyone replaced one of these tweeters, is it easy, looking forward to any constructive comments
Thanks

 

[davidf]

Drivers can sometimes just fail, but it'd be extremely unusual for both tweeters to just stop working.

 

[rayolight]

Drivers can sometimes just fail, but it'd be extremely unusual for both tweeters to just stop working.

I know that the obvious reason would be that they were overdriven, but they were working fine until I switched them off. Just trying to workout if it's possible that the crossover failed. Is there some safety fuse fitted which failed when system switched on,I know it's highly unlikely, it would happen to both but it has,and no visible signs to cones,I'm perplexed .I would just like to understand what has happened, if I have to pay for new parts,that's fine😟

 

[Gray]

You're really not very lucky with speakers are you Ray?

What were you using until they failed?
Was it flat,with no boosted treble and well within its comfort zone (and sounding like it)?

 

[rayolight]

You're really not very lucky with speakers are you Ray?

What were you using until they failed?
Was it flat,with no boosted treble and well within its comfort zone (and sounding like it)?

I'm sure the fingers will be pointing in my direction. On the last night I used them it was with Cambridge audio CXN v2 Streamer, Vincent sv-237mk amp, and SMSL Su9 dac.
Amplifier setting was probably on a setting of 4 as good input signal.I'm a bit of a purist so don't use bass and treble and have the benefit of SVS woofer.
I am beginning to wonder about a remote controlled speaker switcher I use,can this cause a problem when it switches the load.
Feeling disappointed the only speakers I have never had any issues with are my Acoustic energy AE1's and AE500's. Had the AE1'S from new,still superb. My problem now is having to ship it back to distributor, don't have a lot of confidence in them ,so am sure will have to pay ,whatever is found even though on warranty, which is not a problem but doesn't inform me what was the cause, so,making me nervous about listening at any volume 🥴

 

[Noddy]

Did you connect the speakers directly to each amp? If I understand correctly, you normally have a switching device between the amp and the speakers.

It sounds like you’ve narrowed it down to the speakers. Surely any switch is just a magnetic relay device, hence it does no more than toggle the current.

 

[rayolight]

Did you connect the speakers directly to each amp? If I understand correctly, you normally have a switching device between the amp and the speakers.

It sounds like you’ve narrowed it down to the speakers. Surely any switch is just a magnetic relay device, hence it does no more than toggle the current.

On my Vincent amp there are 2 sets of speakers, PMC Prodigy and Acoustic energy AE500's, these are connected to the amp via a switch box which is remote controlled . Am sure problem is tweeters, but to best of my knowledge haven't driven them hard. The tweeter cones are perfect no damage and I can't see both crossovers going faulty. Your correct the switch box is just an electrical transfer switch, just scratching for answers.
I will try to get in touch with technical at PMC, don't mind paying for new tweeters even though on warranty. I would rather fit them myself if possible, after sales service here in Spain is not great

 

[abacus]

If the speakers are bi-wirable, check to see the links are still in place, in case someone has removed them as a joke.

Bill

 

[Al ears]

If the speakers are bi-wirable, check to see the links are still in place, in case someone has removed them as a joke.

Bill

They aren't.

 

[Al ears]

I know that the obvious reason would be that they were overdriven, but they were working fine until I switched them off. Just trying to workout if it's possible that the crossover failed. Is there some safety fuse fitted which failed when system switched on,I know it's highly unlikely, it would happen to both but it has,and no visible signs to cones,I'm perplexed .I would just like to understand what has happened, if I have to pay for new parts,that's fine😟

You mean both crossovers suddenly failed? Very doubtful.

 

[nopiano]

I am beginning to wonder about a remote controlled speaker switcher I use,can this cause a problem when it switches the load.

So am I. Some sort of arcing or DC signal would be the reason two tweeters blow simultaneously. To be fair to PMC it doesn’t frankly sound like a manufacturing defect on the face of it. That said, they charge premium prices and probably want to retain goodwill, so might well fix them fre of charge through their local distributor or provide spares for you.

But I’d remove the switching box and see if you can test it, otherwise you’ll soon have two sets with blown tweeters!

 

[Noddy]

So am I. Some sort of arcing or DC signal would be the reason two tweeters blow simultaneously. To be fair to PMC it doesn’t frankly sound like a manufacturing defect on the face of it. That said, they charge premium prices and probably want to retain goodwill, so might well fix them fre of charge through their local distributor or provide spares for you.

But I’d remove the switching box and see if you can test it, otherwise you’ll soon have two sets with blown tweeters!

That was my thought, but where would a large DC or AC signal come from? If a large surge came down the mains lines, due to lightning or an unexpected surge, wouldn’t that fry the entire system?

I would be tempted to examine the switching mechanism, especially if the switching is mains powered, and look for signs of shorting or arcing. But then why would the tweeters blow and not the woofers if a surge went down the speaker cables? Unless the crossover circuits blew, of course.

 

[Al ears]

That was my thought, but where would a large DC or AC signal come from? If a large surge came down the mains lines, due to lightning or an unexpected surge, wouldn’t that fry the entire system?

I would be tempted to examine the switching mechanism, especially if the switching is mains powered, and look for signs of shorting or arcing. But then why would the tweeters blow and not the woofers if a surge went down the speaker cables? Unless the crossover circuits blew, of course.

to be fair the only thing I find odd in this set-up is the use of a remote speaker switch and feel sure this is probably the culprit. Haven't heard of any issues from people using these speakers in a 'normal' set-up.

 

[davidf]

As nopiano says (and what I was going to suggest), plug the Prodigys direct into the amp and see if they work properly.

 

[rayolight]

As nopiano says (and what I was going to suggest), plug the Prodigys direct into the amp and see if they work properly.

I am fortunate to have 2 systems,have connected them direct to my other amp,exactly the same problem. The switching unit connected to my Vincent only uses 12volt supply,completely solid state to speaker connections. While I can't rule it out will be surprised if it is the issue 🤷 . Have sent a mail to pmc,to ask if I could communicate with one of there tech guys. If it's something I am responsible for, will happily pay for the repairs. Just don't want a repercussion after they are fixed.

 

[Gray]

The switching unit connected to my Vincent only uses 12volt supply,completely solid state to speaker connections. While I can't rule it out will be surprised if it is the issue 🤷

You don't hear a clicking relay as it switches then?

While it's disconnected from the speakers, if you've got a voltmeter, you could check the outputs as you switch it.

Of course it shouldn't be the issue, but we wouldn't be surprised if it was.

 

[rayolight]

Though you might be interested in the outcome of my PMC Prodigy problem. Well over the last 7 weeks I have been in contact with my Spanish hifi shop and both PMC customer service and their technical department. Can I firstly say that both Kathy at Customer Service and Matt at technical support have been excellent. The problem has been the Importer, to cut a very long story short the speakers have been half way round Spain I think and to the best of my knowledge have still not been repaired.
However the good news is that the manager in the shop was so embarrassed with the backup I have received they have given me a full refund which I have put towards a pair of Dali Rubicon 2 speakers and am currently awaiting delivery.
I am confident this saga would have been sorted immediately if purchased in UK, but of course living in Spain, the situation is Mañana😉🤣

 

[plastic penguin]

Though you might be interested in the outcome of my PMC Prodigy problem. Well over the last 7 weeks I have been in contact with my Spanish hifi shop and both PMC customer service and their technical department. Can I firstly say that both Kathy at Customer Service and Matt at technical support have been excellent. The problem has been the Importer, to cut a very long story short the speakers have been half way round Spain I think and to the best of my knowledge have still not been repaired.
However the good news is that the manager in the shop was so embarrassed with the backup I have received they have given me a full refund which I have put towards a pair of Dali Rubicon 2 speakers and am currently awaiting delivery.
I am confident this saga would have been sorted immediately if purchased in UK, but of course living in Spain, the situation is Mañana😉🤣

Pleased you have it sorted. I love my Dali Rubi 2.

Tell us what you think of them.

Good luck

 

[rayolight]

Pleased you have it sorted. I love my Dali Rubi 2.

Tell us what you think of them.

Good luck

Interested to hear that you have them,what would you say you like about them most. From the reviews I have read, the soundstage seems to be one of there big plusses. I also read they take a lot of driving as 4ohm, my Vincent does 250 watt into 4ohm so shouldn't be a problem. Really looking forward to receiving them ,just purchased some QED xt40i cables to give them a good intro👍

 

[nopiano]

Glad your dealer came to the rescue, but it doesn’t reflect very well on PMC, to put it mildly. Please don’t use your dodgy switch box this time, unless you’ve had it thoroughly tested!

Presumably your Vincent doesn’t make a big ‘plop’ or ‘crack’ when you turn it on or off? If it does I’d get it checked out.

 

[gasolin]

Why DALI RUBICON 2 there is also Dynaudio evoke 20 for about the same price

 

[rayolight]

Glad your dealer came to the rescue, but it doesn’t reflect very well on PMC, to put it mildly. Please don’t use your dodgy switch box this time, unless you’ve had it thoroughly tested!

Presumably your Vincent doesn’t make a big ‘plop’ or ‘crack’ when you turn it on or off? If it does I’d get it checked out.

I really don't think it's the switching box,its incredibly smooth,however, I now turn down volume to zero before I switch just incase.
The one thing that did come to mind was that I've had hifi for over 40 years and never had any issues until I purchased low output moving coil cartridges, I have an AT OC9XSH and Hana ML which is 0.4mv,and I do have to more than double the volume knob to get reasonable listening levels. Matt the technical support engineersuggested that the tweeters may have been overdriven, this could only happen when using the mc cartridges. My phono preamp is a Music Fidelity MX Vynl, have been wondering whether I should have purchased a step up transformer instead and used my Rega phono mm as normal. It's only a thought and am sure someone with infinitely more knowledge will reject my theory.I know there are doubters but I don't play loud music. When using my streamer, volume rarely goes above 2. Anyway will see how the Dali's perform, they are currently set to play a wide variety of music to burn them in.
Just another note the Vincent is incredibly quiet, beautifully engineered and great fun to be able to roll valves,currently a NOS Mullard circa 1960
Thanks for your input

 

[Gray]

....and I do have to more than double the volume knob to get reasonable listening levels. Matt the technical support engineersuggested that the tweeters may have been overdriven

I think Matt could be right
Ultrasonics that you can't hear, but that the tweeters really didn't like - at high levels.

I assume you chose the Prodigy because you liked the sound.
The Dalis are good speakers by all accounts....but they presumably weren't your first choice.
You're obviously ok with that, but it seems to suggest you think the PMCs were at fault.
Being realistic, I doubt that was the case.
I hope your new speakers will be ok (because ultrasonic overdrives are not a symptom that will give you any obvious pre-warnings).

 

[nopiano]

I think Matt could be right
Ultrasonics that you can't hear, but that the tweeters really didn't like - at high levels.

I assume you chose the Prodigy because you liked the sound.
The Dalis are good speakers by all accounts....but they presumably weren't your first choice.
You're obviously ok with that, but it seems to suggest you think the PMCs were at fault.
Being realistic, I doubt that was the case.
I hope your new speakers will be ok (because ultrasonic overdrives are not a symptom that will give you any obvious pre-warnings).

That’s a good point, as the gain with MC cartridges is enormous and any HF oscillation or spurious output will give tweeters are hard time.

That said, I’m still inclined to think there was a surge or spike given that both PMC tweeters blew simultaneously.

 

[rayolight]

I think Matt could be right
Ultrasonics that you can't hear, but that the tweeters really didn't like - at high levels.

I assume you chose the Prodigy because you liked the sound.
The Dalis are good speakers by all accounts....but they presumably weren't your first choice.
You're obviously ok with that, but it seems to suggest you think the PMCs were at fault.
Being realistic, I doubt that was the case.
I hope your new speakers will be ok (because ultrasonic overdrives are not a symptom that will give you any obvious pre-warnings).

Thanks for your input,I chose the PMC speakers from Whathifi magazine reviews and others. Unfortunately where i live in Spain there are no facilities to hear before buying so that's my only way of choosing equipment.
If the volume levels that I listen at have caused the problem, then the PMC 's were definitely not for me. Only just received the Dali Rubicon2 so will need a bit of time to make a conclusion, but so far very pleased. Don't think ultrasonics came into consideration when I bought my Acoustic Energy Ae1's new and they have been superb and still going strong. It's all getting a bit too technical 🤔