Power Cables

[Anonymous]

I repeat do some research into hifi myths and bad science. Read other enthusiast forums that do not rely on magazine advertising revenue. Use your brain, make an informed choice.

What hifi are at best ignorant and victims of the placebo effect. Due to the easy availablity of evidence these power cables do not improve sound quality, it would have to be willfully ignorant. People who have bought the cable will believe they can hear a difference because of the placebo effect and many will refuse to believe they have been foolish - gullible, because it is hard to admit. Telling people they have been gullible is never going to make you popular, people will get their backs up and vehemently disagree that they have been foolish and wasted their money. Buying expensive esoteric audio accessories is a self indulgent purchase that flatters the ego and makes you feel you are getting something supperior to joe average. The self styled audiophile may believe they have superior knowledge and taste, and a more refined ear - appreciation of music. You can stay smug and deluded. But people reading this may not have already wasted their money and may have a naive trust in what hifi as an authoritative source of information.

These cables do not work.

 

[Dave_]

 

[professorhat]

I wonder how many threads like this there have been now. Actually looking and finding this out might just be slightly more interesting than reading about how WHF are out to con us all and the placebo effect again...

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

Try doing some comparisons on your own equipment.
By the way what is it?
Why don't you show it in your profile?

Whilst I research information on many subjects to acquire the pros and cons, that is just a foundation to putting into practice what you have learned, and that's where trial and error begins.

Also what helps is having a clear base point, and further points of reference drawn from practical knowledge.

What is relevant is the 1st hand experience you gain.
Of course this is never gained if one has a closed mind to start with.

 

[Anonymous]

Closed mind - rational mind, Open minded - farther christmass and the tooth fairy could be real.

Looking at past threads you will not see how many posts have been deleted. Do not think you are getting the full picture just by reading what hifi and visting its forum.
If you still believe they might work and have them on a satisfaction guaranteed or full refund. Then do a double blind test, and do enough to make sure it is not just luck. If I toss a coin three times I have a 1 in 8 chance of guessing right every time, a 1 in 2 chance of being right two out of three times. So do alot of blind testing and see if what sounds best evens out between the cables. You will want to hear a difference, you will want to not have wasted your time, do not fool yourself into believing something just be cause you want to.

 

[professorhat]

Would it be too much to suggest you might be better off posting in those other "enthusiast" forums rather than here then? Since you clearly don't like it here and have little of interest to add.

EDIT - Interesting how much the post I replied to here has been changed by mr knightout, thus making my post here seem a bit harsh. Needless to say, the original post suggested other "enthusiast" forums that he was a member of considered this forum a laughing stock - hence my somewhat restrained reply!

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

aliEnRIK:

PURE silver is WAY more conductive then pure copper (Of course the fact you need to combine with other metals confuses this a little)

But regardless. Clearly you yourself havnt tried anything worthwhile and so therefore have ZERO perspective from which to comment. I dont go reading hifi mags and believing everything I read (FAR from it in fact)

I test them myself. Perhaps YOU should do the same as you clearly havent by the answers you give throughout this forum

The conductivity difference between silver and copper is marginal and certainly isn't going to affect anything as non-critical as a mains lead. If you think they sound different you are simply mistaken.

 

[Anonymous]

There having a laugh.

Credibility zero.

Off you go boys, mummys got your holicks ready.

 

[aliEnRIK]

Cyril Mason:This is such a comical thread. So many misconceptions, so much misunderstanding.

Your the comedian mate. You claim to know so much and yet 'tried' so VERY little

 

[aliEnRIK]

Cyril Mason:aliEnRIK:

PURE silver is WAY more conductive then pure copper (Of course the fact you need to combine with other metals confuses this a little)

But regardless. Clearly you yourself havnt tried anything worthwhile and so therefore have ZERO perspective from which to comment. I dont go reading hifi mags and believing everything I read (FAR from it in fact)

I test them myself. Perhaps YOU should do the same as you clearly havent by the answers you give throughout this forum

The conductivity difference between silver and copper is marginal and certainly isn't going to affect anything as non-critical as a mains lead. If you think they sound different you are simply mistaken.

A simple yes or no will suffice

Have YOU....YOURSELF.....actually tried a 'brand new' solid silver mains cable on your amplifier? (I dont care if yours runs off a battery or whatever. A simple YES or NO will suffice)

 

[pioneer7]

Blimey easy boys, we are talking about Mains cables here, lets not get personal.

For what it is worth they do work and no one will convince me other wise, i would draw the line at spending silly money on cables, but a little research and getting info on forums like this one can surely help people make there minds up, for those who do not beleave they work, nothing is gained or lost but i see no point in posting threads stating the fact mains cables do not work, i am a great beleaver in that reading and giving constructive opinions is always good and can be a laugh at times, but i am certainly not ignorant.

Let the show begin.

 

[Andrew Everard]

knightout:What hifi are at best ignorant and victims of the placebo effect.
Due to the easy availablity of evidence these power cables do not
improve sound quality, it would have to be willfully ignorant. ...But people reading this may not have already wasted their
money and may have a naive trust in what hifi as an authoritative
source of information.

knightout:Looking at past threads you will not see how many posts have been deleted. Do not think you are getting the full picture just by reading what hifi and visting its forum.

So explain to me why you are bothering to post here...?

 

[Anonymous]

As they say, passing water inside the tent gets more attention than doing so outside.... and it is easier to "undermine from within".

 

[Anonymous]

"EDIT - Interesting how much the post I replied to here has been changed by mr knightout, thus making my post here seem a bit harsh. Needless to say, the original post suggested other "enthusiast" forums that he was a member of considered this forum a laughing stock - hence my somewhat restrained reply!" Professorhat

My original comment was actually with contempt. Do a search on other "enthusiast" forums for what hifi and see what people think for yourself.

"Yes, advertising is part of our revenue stream. And your point is...?" Andrew Everard

Who pays the piper. I also notice that the same company and some of the same editorial staff work on Sony magazine, Sony wins lots of awards in What Hi-Fi by a happy coincidence.

The reviews are subjective, not objective. "Again, correct" Andrew Everard.

Can you not afford test equipment, American magazines can, are you the poor cousins. If you gave measured test results and how you took the measurements on your website or in the magazine it would give added validity - proof to your opinion, rather than relying on your expert subjectivity.

Placebo effects are real so things have to be double blind tested. "Ah, there you go with your cable thread cliches..." Andrew Everad

Do you not believe in the placebo effect, or do you think you are uniquely immune to it. If you know a way of not suffering from the placebo effect without using double blind testing, please save research scientists a fortune in time and money by telling them how you do it.

The reviews are not double blind "How do you know?" Andrew Everard

There is $1,000,000 prize money up for grabs from James Randi in America to anyone who can reliably tell the difference between these things and normal power cables in blind testing, as it would prove either you are psychic or they are supernatural. Note for blind testing to work it has to be repeated many times to eliminate pure chance, you can toss a coin three times and guessing right every time is a one in eight chance that does not make one in eight people psychic or the coin magic. If you want to believe these things work you will hear a difference because you want to, the placebo effect is a fact the only way to remove it is double blind testing.

"That's 'an excuse', 'absurd' and 'supposed'. You're getting yourself into a bit of a lather, aren't you?" Andrew Everard

I do not like to see people suckered in to wasting their money. If I did not care I would not have bothered to post.

Do not rely on faith in the honesty of others who stand to profit from those too trusting "No, you've lost me now" Andrew Everard

If you believe with out proof you are relying on faith. God brings faith, everyone else brings test measurements or double bind testing to be believed, and then have to survive critical review. You just rely on faith - trusting readers.

"So explain to me why you are bothering to post here...?" Andrew Everard

I picked up your May issue to read on the train and was amazed you recommend these things, I posted so that some too trusting may actually check out the opinions of others on other websites, forums, etc.. and save their money.

By the way Consulting Editor of What Hi-Fi? Can I post links to other sources of information that agree they are a waste of money, or is this against your house rules?

 

[Andrew Everard]

knightout:I also notice that the same company and some of
the same editorial staff work on Sony magazine, Sony wins lots of
awards in What Hi-Fi by a happy coincidence.

Yes, entirely by coincidence. And the Sony magazine is handled by an entirely separate division of the company

knightout:Can you not afford test equipment, American magazines can, are you
the poor cousins. If you gave measured test results and how you took
the measurements on your website or in the magazine it would give added
validity - proof to your opinion, rather than relying on your expert
subjectivity

Yes, we can afford it, but thank you for your concern

knightout:

The reviews are not double blind "How do you know?" Andrew Everard

There is $1,000,000 prize money up for grabs to anyone who can
reliably tell the difference between these things and normal power
cables in blind testing, as it would prove either you are psychic or
they are supernatural. Note for blind testing to work it has to be
repeated many times to eliminate pure chance, you can toss a coin three
times and guessing right every time is a one in eight chance that does
not make one in eight people psychic or the coin magic. If you want to
believe these things work you will hear a difference because you want
to, the placebo effect is a fact the only way to remove it is double
blind testing.

Fascinating discourse, but it doesn't answer the question about your supposed knowledge of our test methodology.

knightout:IBy the way Consulting Editor of What Hi-Fi? Can I post links to
other sources of information that agree they are a waste of money, or
is this against your house rules?

The House Rules are available here.

 

[Anonymous]

Strange how Knightout and Cyril suddenly appear on the site at the same time!

How big of them wanting to save us all money by not spending it on things that in there opinion don't make any difference.

Ah well I will just have to keep on suffering with my Spur, Conditioners, Mods, leads, circuit breakers, soft start, custom made crossovers, etc and try not to enjoy my music and films as much because my eyes and ears are deceiving due to the Placebo effects.

I wish they could have shown me the error of my ways 30years ago, all that money I have spent on better equipment and mods.

Now where did I put the bell wire?

 

[aliEnRIK]

knightout:
Do you not believe in the placebo effect, or do you think you are uniquely immune to it. If you know a way of not suffering from the placebo effect without using double blind testing, please save research scientists a fortune in time and money by telling them how you do it.

Blind tests are next to useless for hifi

see HERE

And the pearl cable debate you mention is a scam which is why no one has taken it on (You should do your research before making such claims)

 

[Andrew Everard]

trevor79:Strange how Knightout and Cyril suddenly appear on the site at the same time!

Yes, reminds me of the time when Oldphrt and several of his acolytes would appear simultaneously and indulge in some mutual back-slapping.

Ah, nostalgia...

 

[professorhat]

knightout:"EDIT - Interesting how much the post I replied to here has been changed by mr knightout, thus making my post here seem a bit harsh. Needless to say, the original post suggested other "enthusiast" forums that he was a member of considered this forum a laughing stock - hence my somewhat restrained reply!" Professorhat
My original comment was actually with contempt. Do a search on other "enthusiast" forums for what hifi and see what people think for yourself.

Erm... yes I know (duh!). Hence my reply about going back to said forums since you're only making a bit of a fool of yourself here.

 

[jase fox]

>>> jase steps in.. "Well i think these forums are great & WhatHifi mags the best read ever !! ha

Had to get that of my chest. All i can say on the subject of powercables, HDMI leads, interconnects & so on is just try them for yourself & see what result you want to see, simple as that.

To me i can tell differences, but i wouldnt spend silly money on them. My RA booklets i actually hide them from the other half as if she were to see some of the prices for these cords etc not only would she fold it up & hit me over the head with it shed bring out the B&Q booklets showing me kitchens.

 

[aliEnRIK]

jase fox: My RA booklets i actually hide them from the other half as if she were to see some of the prices for these cords etc not only would she fold it up & hit me over the head with it shed bring out the B&Q booklets showing me kitchens.

HAHA ~ a wise move

You can still get RA type braided cables at MUCH lower prices mind (Which is what I use). RA WAY overprice their cables (It doesnt take a lot of work to braid them, and the materials dont cost THAT much)

 

[jase fox]

aliEnRIK:
jase fox: My RA booklets i actually hide them from the other half as if she were to see some of the prices for these cords etc not only would she fold it up & hit me over the head with it shed bring out the B&Q booklets showing me kitchens.

HAHA ~ a wise move

You can still get RA type braided cables at MUCH lower prices mind (Which is what I use). RA WAY overprice their cables (It doesnt take a lot of work to braid them, and the materials dont cost THAT much)

Ive got all the powercords i need for now Rik but if i were on the market for cords now id definatley look for cheaper alternatives thats for sure.

But to the other half there isnt any alternatives im afraid, as to her there isnt any difference, but yet she trys to convince me that a certain hob cooks vegetables better etc so when i say "a cookers a cooker" she says "a cables a cable" so we agree to disagree, mind you theres nothing new there..... ha

 

[Anonymous]

jase fox:

But to the other half there isnt any alternatives im afraid, as to her there isnt any difference, but yet she trys to convince me that a certain hob cooks vegetables better etc so when i say "a cookers a cooker" she says "a cables a cable" so we agree to disagree, mind you theres nothing new there..... ha

Your other half is very wise.

 

[jase fox]

Cyril Mason:
jase fox:

But to the other half there isnt any alternatives im afraid, as to her there isnt any difference, but yet she trys to convince me that a certain hob cooks vegetables better etc so when i say "a cookers a cooker" she says "a cables a cable" so we agree to disagree, mind you theres nothing new there..... ha

Your other half is very wise.

What with? "certain hobs that can cook better? Im sure you dont agree with that one...

 

[Anonymous]

jase fox:Cyril Mason:
jase fox:

But to the other half there isnt any alternatives im afraid, as to her there isnt any difference, but yet she trys to convince me that a certain hob cooks vegetables better etc so when i say "a cookers a cooker" she says "a cables a cable" so we agree to disagree, mind you theres nothing new there..... ha

Your other half is very wise.

What with? "certain hobs that can cook better? Im sure you dont agree with that one...

Ah but I do.

Stir frying works far better on a gas hob equipped with a proper wok burner than it does on a relatively hopeless electric one but replacing a mains cable will do nothing for reproduction.